4Billion a week - Where should it go?

[::: DARK PSI :::]

Iraq OR modernize our energy grids, help our citizens receive jobs, save health care, etc. etc. etc.. Hmmm :hmmm:



The US pumps over 4 Billion a week in efforts to maintain and modernize Iraq. Is our focus misguided to some extent?

MEBIGGD and others, I would love to hear your comments on the subject. As of now I am pretty strong in mine. :devil:

[Dissectional]

POWERGRID! I totally agree with you DL. As much as I support the government, and the 'War on Terror', the Pres needs to decide, as does congress, where the money really belongs. 50 million people without electricity is the last number that I heard. A power grid that was built 30 years ago, that has not been updated in any way. I for one, would like to know where all that money goes when I pay an electric bill, if none of the grid is being updated. Is it lining someone's pockets? Should the government pour money into a commodity that is run by private business?
There is plenty to debate, and I wish I will be around to take part. But that is what really ticks me off about it. How about the powercompanys pony up some money, and the gov. can match it? Either way, it is going to come out of OUR pockets...all of the sudden. I expect to see rate hikes and other crap to make any modernization changes to the grid, when it was the consumer that is suffering in the first place.

[NightBreed]

Powergrid!! :thumbs: :thumbs:

Makes you wonder, how vulnerable was the Eastern Seaboard of the US last nite? NYC was total gridlock, streets clogged with pedestrians and vehicles...As was every other major city affected last nite..

Wouldn't take much to cause a complete chaotic mess with the simplest of weaponry.. If this can ever be duplicated and the timing is right.. watch yer ass :blink:

[Jesus Fish]

I said this exact same stuff when the war on Iraq started and if any of you lived close to me you would have shot me :devil:

[OUTLAWS Spike]

Originally posted by Jesus Fish@Aug 15 2003, 09:18 PM
I said this exact same stuff when the war on Iraq started and if any of you lived close to me you would have shot me :devil:
:jammin:
























































j/k :rofl:

[JIMINATOR]

Originally posted by Jesus Fish@Aug 15 2003, 11:18 PM
I said this exact same stuff when the war on Iraq started and if any of you lived close to me you would have shot me :devil:
hmmm, we would still shoot you, but not because of your views,
but for the heck of it.... :devil:

[Slice]

Originally posted by Jesus Fish@Aug 15 2003, 11:18 PM
I said this exact same stuff when the war on Iraq started and if any of you lived close to me you would have shot me :devil:
It's really a catch 22. The old don't fix it if it aint broke theory. Our government won't upgrade if it isn't necessary. Anyone who works for their State or Feds knows this. So no funding from our government and put it on the back burner untill it burns out. (pun intended) (no offence to all those who were affected and suffered from the black out.)

[OUTLAWS Tip]

We better get some really cheap oil once they are up and running.
:blink:

[OUTLAWS WHOCARES]

Like Microsoft they will patch it till all hell breaks loose.

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by OUTLAWS WHOCARES@Aug 16 2003, 12:47 PM
Like Microsoft they will patch it till all hell breaks loose.
:rofl: that analogy owns!

[EXEcution]

Originally posted by OUTLAWS WHOCARES@Aug 16 2003, 12:47 PM
Like Microsoft they will patch it till all hell breaks loose.
NOW i understand! :thumbs: :P

[UncleSam]

Originally posted by OUTLAWS WHOCARES@Aug 16 2003, 11:47 AM
Like Microsoft they will patch it till all hell breaks loose.
:lol: :rofl:

[SASQUATCH]

In the long run it will pay off.

Sorry but peace has to come first and we are the only country that can do it and bring other countries together for the future of the children in the next generation and for the world. If we don't there will be more problems to handle and more major events that will happen.

Scarifies are necessary even if we don't like it but must consider the possibility of what could happen in 20 years from now if this is not done. We now carry the burden of this great task that has come to our lap but I am hoping that more countries will get involve more because we can not do it alone but at least we have started this and now must continue and there is no stopping it now, we are in to deep and play a major roll.

When World War 1 finish Wilson wanted to start the United nation I believe, but because many countries did not participated, the great great world war 2 started and if we ignore this and pretend that it will be find, there will be a major problem, which can be a war or any other events that will and can happen. By doing this will hold a future for this earth or world for the next generation.

This is a crucial time and for our world and for this century.

Mistakes will be made but I truly believe that we are in the right track and Iraq is only a small stepping stone to what is ahead for our future and events.

[SASQUATCH]

Originally posted by OUTLAWS Tip@Aug 16 2003, 12:46 AM
We better get some really cheap oil once they are up and running.
:blink:
What we need to do is to use solar energy instead because most of the politician and wealthy investors play a major roll and creed is the sin of all things that will get us in big trouble, especially oil.

We are not there yet but it will take time to at least clean up some of the garbage that is around our country which is creed and money is worshiped like no other thing on earth.


Money does all the talking and at times the principal of dignity and honesty goes out the door.

Our ways must change or we are doomed.

[Death-Dude]

Originally posted by :: DARK LEVIATHAN ::@Aug 15 2003, 07:52 PM
Iraq OR modernize our energy grids, help our citizens receive jobs, save health care, etc. etc. etc.. Hmmm :hmmm:



The US pumps over 4 Billion a week in efforts to maintain and modernize Iraq. Is our focus misguided to some extent?

MEBIGGD and others, I would love to hear your comments on the subject. As of now I am pretty strong in mine. :devil:
I vote schools before the grid, even, but that kind of money would buy a lot of stuff.....and it will, for contractors getting bids. I really don't see how we can set up a democracy there when the people don't believe in it.

[JIMINATOR]

/rant mode on

man is just another animal.
nobody is really interested in saving lives, there are lots
of countries that practice genocide on their population that the US turns a blind eye on.
it is all about the bucks and cheap oil.
take away the oil, and in order for intervention, the country
has to do something really stupid, like host terrorists,
otherwise they can massacre their population at will.
our political system sucks, because fixing things is not
job #1. Job #1 is getting reelected next term or getting the
party back in office. even now look at the grid situation.
Lots of reports from the past few years saying how easy
it would be for things to fail, but nothing was ever done.
politicians could be looking at ways to help fix things. instead
it is going to be a political witchhunt with task forces, and blah, blah, blah.
You will probably see the republicans blaming clinton and the democrats
blaming both the bushes.... it just never ends...

/rant mode off

[SASQUATCH]

Originally posted by JIMINATOR@Aug 16 2003, 08:50 PM
/rant mode on

man is just another animal.
nobody is really interested in saving lives, there are lots
of countries that practice genocide on their population that the US turns a blind eye on.
it is all about the bucks and cheap oil.
take away the oil, and in order for intervention, the country
has to do something really stupid, like host terrorists,
otherwise they can massacre their population at will.
our political system sucks, because fixing things is not
job #1. Job #1 is getting reelected next term or getting the
party back in office. even now look at the grid situation.
Lots of reports from the past few years saying how easy
it would be for things to fail, but nothing was ever done.
politicians could be looking at ways to help fix things. instead
it is going to be a political witchhunt with task forces, and blah, blah, blah.
You will probably see the republicans blaming clinton and the democrats
blaming both the bushes.... it just never ends...

/rant mode off
:thumbs:

[ME BIGGD01]

war with iraq---well if it's war than we should kill all until all is ready to submit. we should own after we took over all those oil fields therefore takeover all iraqi assets. to bad that's not realistic. as far as peace goes, we will never have it in the middle east and fell it's a bs pipe dream. as far as rebuilding taking care of or anything that helps any other country, i think we should take care of our own but again not realistic. we always spend american tax dollars to better other countries except our own. sure you can say we will profit i the future but i feel that bei8ng in the middle east is only a farce of peace. we have major problems that too many liberals interfere or democrats and then rebublicans screw up. it's all a scam just like 9/11. 9/11 was allowed because it helped the gov't grow stronger and yet take our rights away more and more. the gov't now has the right to do anything they want to you because too many americans are blind and do not speak up. president bush should be shot in the skull at this point. he lied to me and you. i recall his statement saying it's not the usa's responsibilty to build up any other country yet what the hell are we doing in iraq. i think all politicians are our enemy and will never trust anyone of them. i think we should become the old america where if you wage war on us then we eliminate you. when japan bombed pearl harbor we did the right thing to end the war. some may think my way of thinking is wrong or sick but war is not paddy cake. we the people and if majority rules then then things would be different about now. as far as all the terrorrism goes, i feel it could of been ended with one punch. although we took a month to take over iraq which many predicted another vietnam, the truth is we woke up alot of those countries yet there is still alot behind the scenes we will never know. there is prood of saudi arabia being involved with 9/11 and terrorism yet we still consider them an ally. my point is to end all terrorism by killing-destroying any country that participates in it. you want to be an enemy? then we should treat you like an enemy. one thing liberals are too blind to see that to have peace you need force. if you fail to see the truth in that than it's people like you that are blind. even if we have peace for 10 more years, the threat of a war will always be there or terrorism. and one day the enemy will get there hands on the big stuff. we american feel we can not lose but we can. think how many world powers thought they could not lose. when i fight a man who is bigger or smaller than me i take no chances on any of them. i take no one for granted. i am safer that way and we should as americvans keep it like that. when we dropped a few of those well deserved bombs on japan, how do you think the world felt about it. hell we could of dropped in on every country then that was a threat to us but we didnt. this was a mistake because we would of taken over the world and would not have to hear the french ingrates and german ingrates and any other country we bailed out or saved and spit in our face. sure that sounds like i am nuts to any one outside of america but the point i want to stress is war is bot paddy cake. i guess my way of thinking is no better than hitler. ok maybe not as bad but if we are to be a country who is hated why should i have to be a slave to every country out there. hell i am a slave in my country. i have to pay for indians, blacks , immigrants non-whites.that come here have kids and go on welfare. what did i do to have to pay for this. where is the justice? it's all bull****!!!!!. it's all going to get worst!!!! not only are we sending our american jobs out of america but to other countries where the labor is dirt cheap. the corps are making a bundle and using us to just buy there ****. you might ignore this but when you are paying you college loans off without a job give me a call and let me know how you feel.


i am just fed up with the world and don't even want to pay attention to anything anymore. i will die any second to fight for what i believe. hell, you may even see me on tv one day for holding off the feds and police for ever trying to enter my house without my permission. as far as america goes maybe we deserve to lose and be nuked by some 3rd world country. if i get the chance to fight i will but if a mushroom cloud appears i'll see you all in hell.

[SASQUATCH]

Holy **** Bigg's! :rofl: :lol: :rofl:

Please BIGG's don't run for office. j/k :rofl:

There is always hope and we have been lucky.

But Bigg's if we think in that way, then we have no hope for the future.

General Patton from the us-army wanted to use the mushroom on the USSR during the end of WW2.

With that and many other shi1 that Patton said was force to retire early of his career.

Keeping a good reputation is important especially for history and now it plays a major roll for USA.

Yet at times we are dislike but that comes with the territory and we must work together or again we will be doomed.

I truly want to believe that there is hope but I also know that we may not make it.

[::: DARK PSI :::]

Ahh, I have been waiting for Bigg's reply. The world is bad but not hopeless. Don't go postal yet. :)


So I take it you are in favor of rebuilding the power grids first? :D

[PJ'l_Master]

hell yeah screw Iraq :devil:

[ME BIGGD01]

after speaking to my brother who is an electrician, he told me he knew this was going to happend and it was expected. i guess it's true that it has to break or fall in order to be fixed. why we havent upgraded it is beyond me. this country should have the best of everything considering the amount of money it has. it does disturb that it cost so much per day to wage war. lets give them a week off and we may be able to fix some things in the country.

[OUTLAWS Tip]

On the bright side. At least it didn't happen in January or some winter month when the temps are below freezing. That would have been a mess with the the water off and pipes/people freezing. Hopefully this got their attention and fixes will be implemented.
:unsure:

[ME BIGGD01]

that's a great point tip. that would of really sucked.

[PJ'l_Master]

good point there would have been a lot of deaths then.

[JIMINATOR]

ummm, the reason it happend and it happens in the summer is because of peak usage for ac
wintertime is much more minimal usage, the grid would be able to support a similar
type problem if it happened during the winter.

[Drunken Warrior]

Give all the money to me, I'll find a good place for it :oooo: :angel: :devil:

[Elessar]

All i know is the liberals stopped an energy bill from passing that bush put on the table that would of prevented this more then likely.
Bigg, you are nuts.
i have no respect for you....do you care....probablly not.....do i care that you dont....sure as hell dont.
9-11 was allowed...give me a break....saying crap like that makes me think you should change your nickname to mebiggdumbass or mebigdemocrat pot smoking hippie conspiracy theorist

[ME BIGGD01]

elassar, hide your ingorance and reread what i have posted. first anyone here will tell you i am not a democrat. 2nd i can take your insults but atleast have the balls to counter my comments. it's people like you that always comment and never mention your theory. i am allowed to express my theory's and the fact is there are many people out there with the same theory of us allowing 9/11 to happend. my post was in regards of our rights being taken from us. as for your respect for me, you are right. i do not care how you feel about me. i am not here to worry how you feel about me but when you want to insult me, be a man about it. also as far as pot smoker, you have the wrong guy. i am against drugs.

now before you try to insult or comment toward anything i post first
i suggest....

get a clue
try to understand what you are reading because i am unablle to post pictures for you.
stop watching cnn and thinking you know what's going on in the world.
try news sources all over the world
do not be ingnorant and insult someone for there views because this dumbass would kick the crap out of you in person if you did it in person :thumbs:

be a man and explain your views is a better way to dispute something. hell i may agree if i see what you are talking about and feel you have a point.


i doubt you will even understand this post :bandhead:

[Elessar]

Originally posted by ME BIGGD01@Aug 17 2003, 07:41 AM
war with iraq---well if it's war than we should kill all until all is ready to submit. we should own after we took over all those oil fields therefore takeover all iraqi assets. to bad that's not realistic. as far as peace goes, we will never have it in the middle east and fell it's a bs pipe dream. as far as rebuilding taking care of or anything that helps any other country, i think we should take care of our own but again not realistic. we always spend american tax dollars to better other countries except our own. sure you can say we will profit i the future but i feel that bei8ng in the middle east is only a farce of peace. we have major problems that too many liberals interfere or democrats and then rebublicans screw up. it's all a scam just like 9/11. 9/11 was allowed because it helped the gov't grow stronger and yet take our rights away more and more. the gov't now has the right to do anything they want to you because too many americans are blind and do not speak up. president bush should be shot in the skull at this point. he lied to me and you. i recall his statement saying it's not the usa's responsibilty to build up any other country yet what the hell are we doing in iraq. i think all politicians are our enemy and will never trust anyone of them. i think we should become the old america where if you wage war on us then we eliminate you. when japan bombed pearl harbor we did the right thing to end the war. some may think my way of thinking is wrong or sick but war is not paddy cake. we the people and if majority rules then then things would be different about now. as far as all the terrorrism goes, i feel it could of been ended with one punch. although we took a month to take over iraq which many predicted another vietnam, the truth is we woke up alot of those countries yet there is still alot behind the scenes we will never know. there is prood of saudi arabia being involved with 9/11 and terrorism yet we still consider them an ally. my point is to end all terrorism by killing-destroying any country that participates in it. you want to be an enemy? then we should treat you like an enemy. one thing liberals are too blind to see that to have peace you need force. if you fail to see the truth in that than it's people like you that are blind. even if we have peace for 10 more years, the threat of a war will always be there or terrorism. and one day the enemy will get there hands on the big stuff. we american feel we can not lose but we can. think how many world powers thought they could not lose. when i fight a man who is bigger or smaller than me i take no chances on any of them. i take no one for granted. i am safer that way and we should as americvans keep it like that. when we dropped a few of those well deserved bombs on japan, how do you think the world felt about it. hell we could of dropped in on every country then that was a threat to us but we didnt. this was a mistake because we would of taken over the world and would not have to hear the french ingrates and german ingrates and any other country we bailed out or saved and spit in our face. sure that sounds like i am nuts to any one outside of america but the point i want to stress is war is bot paddy cake. i guess my way of thinking is no better than hitler. ok maybe not as bad but if we are to be a country who is hated why should i have to be a slave to every country out there. hell i am a slave in my country. i have to pay for indians, blacks , immigrants non-whites.that come here have kids and go on welfare. what did i do to have to pay for this. where is the justice? it's all bull****!!!!!. it's all going to get worst!!!! not only are we sending our american jobs out of america but to other countries where the labor is dirt cheap. the corps are making a bundle and using us to just buy there ****. you might ignore this but when you are paying you college loans off without a job give me a call and let me know how you feel.


i am just fed up with the world and don't even want to pay attention to anything anymore. i will die any second to fight for what i believe. hell, you may even see me on tv one day for holding off the feds and police for ever trying to enter my house without my permission. as far as america goes maybe we deserve to lose and be nuked by some 3rd world country. if i get the chance to fight i will but if a mushroom cloud appears i'll see you all in hell.
BigD, i know you.. claim you arent a democrat. I have defended your point of view many times as =DOA|MH=Ravenous because many times i have agreed with them. But It seems to me you have lost it and gone off the deep end.
You can hate george bush all you want, thats fine.....but you have nothing to back up your theory of our goverment allowing 9-11. Do i have to make a point, or try to prove this....no.because u have nothing to back this theory up........thats why its a theory
actually its radical nonsense.
And thats what i was reffering to in my post.
guess i had to point it out and take pictures for you.

And i sure as hell would call you a dumbass if you let on that our government allowed 9-11 to happen and would welcome you with open arms to ATTEMPT to whoop my ass in person face to face
next lan perhaps. :thumbs:

[::: DARK PSI :::]

This is a civilized debate no matter what the views of certain people. Keep it clean guys. Ellesar lay off the slander. Post constructive rebuttals please.

[Thundarr]

Originally posted by Jesus Fish@Aug 15 2003, 11:18 PM
I said this exact same stuff when the war on Iraq started and if any of you lived close to me you would have shot me :devil:
Not me, I didn't think we should spend the bucks then either!!!

[Elessar]

lay off the slander......hah
i would not of made the post i made had he not Slandered our government

slan·der n.
communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

I have slandered no one.

[Thundarr]

Originally posted by Dissectional@Aug 15 2003, 10:44 PM
POWERGRID! I totally agree with you DL. As much as I support the government, and the 'War on Terror', the Pres needs to decide, as does congress, where the money really belongs. 50 million people without electricity is the last number that I heard. A power grid that was built 30 years ago, that has not been updated in any way. I for one, would like to know where all that money goes when I pay an electric bill, if none of the grid is being updated. Is it lining someone's pockets? Should the government pour money into a commodity that is run by private business?
There is plenty to debate, and I wish I will be around to take part. But that is what really ticks me off about it. How about the powercompanys pony up some money, and the gov. can match it? Either way, it is going to come out of OUR pockets...all of the sudden. I expect to see rate hikes and other crap to make any modernization changes to the grid, when it was the consumer that is suffering in the first place.
Amen to that, Diss! :thumbs:

[::: DARK PSI :::]

Originally posted by Elessar@Aug 18 2003, 03:20 PM
lay off the slander......hah
i would not of made the post i made had he not Slandered our government

slan·der n.
communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

I have slandered no one.

Here are two examples..

1. "And i sure as hell would call you a dumbass.."

2. "should change your nickname to mebiggdumbass or mebigdemocrat..."

Need I go on?



Everyone is entitled to their own view no matter how different from your own. By calling him names you express your view in a less than acceptable manner. A manner where most people will not listen. Just clean it up and organize your thoughts into a more concise and impacting form. You will notice you will win much more arguments this way.

[ME BIGGD01]

Elessar, first let me say this. i do not want to argue or fight with you. i never claimed to know it all but i do have the right to express what i feel. you can take it with a grain of salt or comment in a debatable form. you were wrong to insult me and call me a dumbass. i can take your insult but make no mistake be prepared for me to counter. i like a good debate and i feel we can debate over this so i can listen to your point of view with out any name calling. i admit my views may not agree with yours or many others but that does not make your views right and mine wrong.

as far as theory i can not back them up and that's why i call it a theory. you insulted me calling me a dumbass for not being happt with our gov't. ok, let em ask you this. do you think the usa gov't is doing a great job? do you feel that everything they do is perfect since it's our gov't? do you feel that america is doing the right thing in iraq? do you know actually what is going on in iraq? i don't think i know but the claims from bush is not what i think is going on. it's all political bs. think about this. we went into iraq to disarm them and make a better place for the iraqi people. they do not want us there regardless of our opinion of the way we think they should live. now our gov't has ended the war and claimed victory. do you think we are victorious? and if so what are we victorious of? can you say we won the war when i think it's hasnt even started yet. why would they end a war when they havent found the weapons of mass destruction they were suppose to know where they were. also do you know we have had more americans die after the war was claimed a victory. why end the war when our soldiers are still at risk of being gunned down and or bombed? please do not say that our gov't is good when it's all based on politics and votes for the next election. i can except your opinion on our gov't but you have to be able to except mine and others. i was one who use to defend bush but after time i see that my oppinion of him has put a bad taste in my mouth. although i will tak him over any democrat, it does not make the situation better than it should be. as far as you defending the gov't, i think you should take a better look at whats going on. i am not sure how old you are but as i get older i am learning more and seeing more. we claim to be so great but our gov't has pulled the sheets over our heads. do you know that america has the largest prison population? why and how could that be in the best county. sure our country is alot better than most but that does not mean our gov't is good. our politiicians are greedy and corrupt. if you think they are not go visit an old age home and see how some old people are barely living and all there pension has to be spent on medicine. or goto colleges and see how much it costs and see how many people can't afford to send their children to school. better yet, goto some high schools and ask a few students some simple questions about who was the second president or how many planets there are and see most don't know yet they are about to graduate. how about cking to see how much health insurance or home insurance is and add up how much the insurance companies get away with. how about how much our soldires get apid for putting there lives on the line for our what ever is left freedom. go ask some veterans who have become sick from the vaccines they got from our gov't and se how they are feeling and what their state of health is for being a guinea pig. most don't hear about the soldiers who get hurt and than treated like crap after they put there ass on the line (please see my thread a good read). why are our children being cheated on education? isnt it our gov't responsiblity to take care of things to make sure we the people are getting what we deserve and paying all these taxes for? do you think our gov't has the right to charg us tax on everything? do you think it's right that in america you trully never own anything you buy? do you think if you buy a house you actually own it or land? do you think we are really free in america today? did you ever read the constitution? do you know we have the right to have multiple gov'ts? do you know why they put that in there? so one gov't like the one we have now couldnt get the way it is now.

i just want you to know, i am not a radical or in some stupid cult. i am well educated. i do not have to be a radical to see our gov't is not as great as you say it is. as far as 9/11 goes, i still feel it could of been prevented. just like pearl harbor could have been but they use these things for their own agenda. 10 minutes after the attack on 9/11 bush was on the radio claiming it was a terrorst attack. i think it was too soon to make that claim unless they knew it was going to happend. i live here and i saw. they tried this years back so why was the securtity not in place when it was first attempted? there are many that feel the same as me with this and there are many that think it's wrong but that is one of the last things we are entitled to here inamerica.

as far you putting the radical hex on me for being against the gov't, i feel it's wrong to do that. why? because if you think about it, if people didnt question anything as they really don't do now, it would be even worst.

also for future reference when i post something that seems harsh, try to see what i am saying. i sometimes make it seem crazy to make a point or easier to see what my point is. i don't claim to be writing passages but somewhere in every post (well most) i am trying to make a point.

oh and you hurt my feelings :P

[::: DARK PSI :::]

Damn that is a lot of text.. use more paragraphs.. my eyes hurt. :wacko: ;)

[JIMINATOR]

damn bigg, maybe i would agree or argue with you, but that's too much to read.... :wacko:

[Thundarr]

Elessar, BIGGD01 is as Conservative as they come. Why do I not see any facts backing up your statements against BIGG?

BTW, Bush's Energy Bill would NOT have prevented the powergrid from failing, the Bill addressed gas and oil industries, drilling in Alaska and a couple other token items... Nowhere is there anything that would have gotten the Powergrid upgraded so it wouldn't fail... (especially not in just a year or so!) Haven't you heard, Governor Bill Richardson (New Mexico) hits the nail on the head: "We are the last remaining superpower with a 3rd World grid".


From CNN.COM:

Thursday, Aug. 02, 2001
Well, George W. Bush got his "victory" headlines. "Bush’s Energy Bill Is Passed In House In A GOP Triumph — Environmentalists Lose," moaned the New York Times. "Bush’s Energy Plan Endorsed By House," said the Washington Post. The L.A. Times went straight to the hot button: "House Votes To Allow Oil Drilling in Alaska."

But how much did he actually win? By the time the House GOP leadership drummed up the 240 votes to pass its energy bill after midnight Wednesday, the 1.5 million-acre swath of the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge Bush had earmarked for exploration had been shrunk by compromise to 2,000 acres — and backers had to stroke the labor unions (salivating over construction jobs in the tundra) to get that.

The Republicans also adjusted Bush’s plan to include more money for conservation and alternative energy sources than the president had originally sought, and added requirements for improved efficiency of heating and air conditioning systems in federal buildings. And they simply abandoned some of Bush’s more radioactive proposals, like the measure limiting nuclear-plant liability and a broad initiative to restructure the nation’s electricity system. All in all, said House Republican Conference Chairman J.C. Watts before the vote, they’d only tackled "80 to 85 percent" of Bush’s plan.

And wait until the Senate gets its hands on it. Sensing fertile ground for political disagreement in Bush’s poll numbers on energy and environmental issues, Democrats in charge there will be designing their own, opposite-polarity energy legislation for a face-off with Bush in the fall. Some key issues:

ANWR drilling: This proposal has long been presumed a non-starter in the Senate, even by the White House, and it’s not likely that the 2,000-acre version — given the way it still gets reported as a major Bush victory — has any better chance of making it past Tom Daschle and his Jeffords-installed committee chairmen. Cross it off.

CAFE standards: A arduously negotiated, ever-so-slight increase in SUV and light-truck fuel efficiency did make it into the Republican bill, which requires Detroit to set standards that would save 5 billion gallons of oil between 2004 and 2010, but doesn’t specify those standards (most number-crunchings have it at a measly extra 1 mpg).

In the context of a Democrat-led, moderate-steered Senate, that seems destined to be the low end. The House did beat back a meeting-of-the-moderates proposal by Reps. Sherwood L. Boehlert (R-N.Y.) and Rep. Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.) that would have required the combined passenger and light truck fleet to achieve an average of 26 mpg by 2005 and 27.5 mpg by 2007. (The current SUV requirement of 20.7 mpg dates back to 1983.) But the proposal may have set a precedent for selling the increased standards as a replacement, freedom-from-foreign-oil-wise, for ANWR drilling.

The whole damn thing: With even GOPers like Boehlert charging that the bill remains top-heavy with aid to the oil and gas industry, the Senate seems certain to try to turn the entire thing on its head: Less production, more conservation, more stimulation of cleaner alternative fuels.

The House bill currently includes $33.5 billion in tax breaks and other incentives for the power industry aimed at increasing oil and gas exploration, developing new coal-burning technologies and promoting nuclear energy. Politically and substantively, the funds for conservation and alternative energy sources remain the afterthought rather than the centerpiece. Daschle’s version will doubtless reverse that proportion, betting that by the time summer is past and the Senate digs into energy this fall, public opinion will be in his favor.

It may be already. According to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll, Bush’s personal approval ratings are up again to 63 percent, but his handling of "the energy situation" scored only 43 percent and his handling of the environment 45 percent. Two-thirds of respondents still felt oil and gas companies, large corporations and wealthy people have too much influence in the Bush administration. And when asked who they trusted more, Bush or the Democrats, Bush trailed 49-41 on energy and 54-37 on the environment.

So if the House version emerged with "80 to 85 percent" of what Bush originally wanted, figure the Senate to come in around 35-40 percent. (The labor unions have really started to lean toward Bush on anything that involves increased production and infrastructure.) Throw the two sides together in House-Senate conference, and expect something like, say 55 percent — less tax breaks for production and more for conservation, no ANWR and a few more mpg on CAFE standards.

Politically, neither side will be hurt by delivering moderation on an issue that the public has yet to accept as an urgent matter. But Bush, in his eagerness to keep ANWR alive and give his House Republicans something to brag about when they head home for summer recess, has put himself in a somewhat unprofitable position. And when energy hits the Senate in a month or two, he’ll be facing little but "Defeat" headlines from then on.

[ME BIGGD01]

now that's a post :thumbs:

plenty of 411

good find thundarr :thumbs:

[FASTway]

Originally posted by ME BIGGD01@Aug 17 2003, 12:41 AM
president bush should be shot in the skull at this point.


You lost me here..... :WTF:

[ME BIGGD01]

yeah that's abit drastic but a heat of the moment statement :oooo:

i actually voted for bush and i one of the things i liked about him is he said that we would not do what he is doing now. i have to look for the exact statement where he says it is not america's responsibility to fix other country's life style.

i guess one thing that really bothers me is they say the war is over and yet they are still fighting over there. it's the politics that sickens me and puts me in a rage. not one person really knows what's going on.

i say just be honest to the people. if we have to fight than we shall fight but don't say things are getting better and the iraqi's are happy we are there when they definetly arent happy we are there. america taxdollars are being wasted by the billios day by day yet here in america we have people starving, bad education, etc. etc.

lets fix our problems in our house before fixing everyone elses.

[Elessar]

Listen, the only thing that pissed me off was the fact that you said our government knew 9-11 was going to happen, did i say anything about the war in iraq......anywhere?
no.
I never slandered bigd, i said it makes me think he should change his name.......that is not slander, but my view. Why do we have the largest prison population? Because we have law. Many places in the world would probablly in your opinon seem down right chaotic and lawless if you went to visit them...... Take mexico for example. I never claimed Americas government was the best government. But i will damn well say we didnt know 9-11 was going to happen. We may of known something was going to happen, but we didnt know enough to prevent that horrific tragedy that ensued and the fact that you believe it to be a ploy by bush to justify the war in iraq makes my stomach turn.

And about hurting your feelings.....well....dont pull a dixi chics on me there eh man :wave:

[FlameRush]

4 bil should goto electricity, and sick people with the newest deseises...
People oughtta try to print their money and continue, but that state lots will be rich, more and more metal will be bought as with resource, but not much ppl with enough money to do it, someone shall stand up too all this, and start all there stuff of printing moeny, and sending it to sick people, and extermintors to wipe out the west nile, and monkey pox in our country, I dont understand why 4 bil aweek do do that, I think its kind pathetic...

[FlameRush]

Originally posted by ME BIGGD01@Aug 18 2003, 07:18 PM
yeah that's abit drastic but a heat of the moment statement :oooo:

i actually voted for bush and i one of the things i liked about him is he said that we would not do what he is doing now. i have to look for the exact statement where he says it is not america's responsibility to fix other country's life style.

i guess one thing that really bothers me is they say the war is over and yet they are still fighting over there. it's the politics that sickens me and puts me in a rage. not one person really knows what's going on.

i say just be honest to the people. if we have to fight than we shall fight but don't say things are getting better and the iraqi's are happy we are there when they definetly arent happy we are there. america taxdollars are being wasted by the billios day by day yet here in america we have people starving, bad education, etc. etc.

lets fix our problems in our house before fixing everyone elses.
Al gore maybe had to be president and all, he fought to get parental advisory, so did others, like twisted sisters experiance, and now I think al gore had a lil bit more experiance than bush, because bush hasnt really done anything that made me think right, I voted for Bush(doing bets too) at school(which was fake ofcourse), and I got over 25 bucks out of others bets for Bush being president...

[Jesus Fish]

I remember there being a post a while back about spell checking?

As well no one has been slandered in this Topic

Slander=Spoken
Libel=Written
so...
VS Is a crack baby is Libel not slander, but slander is an act harmful to ones reputation or creditability and he has none so I'm safe.

[FlameRush]

What I mean, I dont hate bush, he may be going through a hard time, or something, I do think maybe $4 bil a week to help out people is supportive, to bve the president, is to be supportive, thats how I feel, not to act harmful to bush, but crap, to be thinking of what life will be like if Revalation dont come, which thers a .00001 percent it wont as I believe, then stuff would be here with more evil souls, I know I wont be one of them, because evil dont match me, I am good, but not relegious, I can be mean, Im going to the state I be mean to people that I have had problems with, but I wont get carried on so I can stay outta this topic??
I may not have a reputation of my own, but if any you knew me in person, I am alot more better than you think..

[JIMINATOR]

Originally posted by VS BloodScream@Aug 18 2003, 10:08 PM
4 bil should goto electricity, and sick people with the newest deseises...
People oughtta try to print their money and continue, but that state lots will be rich, more and more metal will be bought as with resource, but not much ppl with enough money to do it, someone shall stand up too all this, and start all there stuff of printing moeny, and sending it to sick people, and extermintors to wipe out the west nile, and monkey pox in our country, I dont understand why 4 bil aweek do do that, I think its kind pathetic...
um, do you know anything at all about how the government and the economy works?? :oooo:

[FlameRush]

Oh crap, nevermind then...
Im serious, if you mean the money is free to use(like not to goto pay anything), and they dont use it, why wont they help the country out with some...

[EXEcution]

Originally posted by VS BloodScream@Aug 19 2003, 01:04 AM
Oh crap, nevermind then...
Im serious, if you mean the money is free to use(like not to goto pay anything), and they dont use it, why wont they help the country out with some...
:hmmm: I don't think anything in this country is free, except napkins maybe!

[::: DARK PSI :::]

Well this throws a monkey wrench into the whole lightning theory...


http://www.gamemecca.net/forums/index.php?...=ST&f=1&t=19737 (http://www.gamemecca.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=19737)

[SASQUATCH]

I never voted for Bush because he is not the smartest president and he is a oil man and that will give you an idea of how much he is interested to help the economy. :blink:

[Thundarr]

Originally posted by ME BIGGD01@Aug 18 2003, 05:44 PM
now that's a post :thumbs:

plenty of 411

good find thundarr :thumbs:
Thanks Bigg!! :happy: And BTW, I agree with you that Bush, etc knew 9/11 was going to happen, they may not have know exactly what, but they knew it was going to be something big and they had an idea what it was!!! :bandhead:

[Bones]

Just browsing through. If you guys are interested in reading about government complicity in 9-11, read Evidence of High-Level Government Complicity in the Events Of 9-11 (http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/911page.htm#1).

Also, greetings to everybody I haven't seen (on this forum) in a while. Anything big happen while I was away? Somebody please email me if the patch ever comes out. lol. :wacko:

[Burn the Witch]

How old is BIGGD?

[ME BIGGD01]

will be 32 this sept 11

why do you ask?

[Burn the Witch]

so much contempt in your writing, thats all, not having a go or anything, except now you started the whole Iraq thing, you gotta finish it.

[Thundarr]

Originally posted by VS BloodScream+Aug 18 2003, 10:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (VS BloodScream @ Aug 18 2003, 10:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ME BIGGD01@Aug 18 2003, 07:18 PM
yeah that&#39;s abit drastic but a heat of the moment statement :oooo:

i actually voted for bush and i one of the things i liked about him is he said that we would not do what he is doing now.&nbsp; i have to look for the exact statement where he says&nbsp; it is not america&#39;s responsibility to fix other country&#39;s life style.&nbsp;

i guess one thing that really bothers me is they say the war is over and yet they are still fighting over there.&nbsp; it&#39;s the politics that sickens me and puts me in a rage.&nbsp; not one person really knows what&#39;s going on.

i say just be honest to the people.&nbsp; if we have to fight than we shall fight but don&#39;t say things are getting better and the iraqi&#39;s are happy we are there when they definetly arent happy we are there.&nbsp; america&nbsp; taxdollars are being wasted by the billios day by day yet here in america we have people starving, bad education, etc. etc.

lets fix our problems in our house before fixing everyone elses.
Al gore maybe had to be president and all, he fought to get parental advisory, so did others, like twisted sisters experiance, and now I think al gore had a lil bit more experiance than bush, because bush hasnt really done anything that made me think right, I voted for Bush(doing bets too) at school(which was fake ofcourse), and I got over 25 bucks out of others bets for Bush being president... [/b][/quote]
Psssst, VS, it wasn&#39;t Al Gore heading up the PMRC (the Parental Advisory folks), it was his wife Tipper.....

[FlameRush]

Originally posted by Thundarr+Aug 22 2003, 03:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Thundarr @ Aug 22 2003, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -VS BloodScream@Aug 18 2003, 10:13 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--ME BIGGD01@Aug 18 2003, 07:18 PM
yeah that&#39;s abit drastic but a heat of the moment statement :oooo:

i actually voted for bush and i one of the things i liked about him is he said that we would not do what he is doing now.* i have to look for the exact statement where he says* it is not america&#39;s responsibility to fix other country&#39;s life style.*

i guess one thing that really bothers me is they say the war is over and yet they are still fighting over there.* it&#39;s the politics that sickens me and puts me in a rage.* not one person really knows what&#39;s going on.

i say just be honest to the people.* if we have to fight than we shall fight but don&#39;t say things are getting better and the iraqi&#39;s are happy we are there when they definetly arent happy we are there.* america* taxdollars are being wasted by the billios day by day yet here in america we have people starving, bad education, etc. etc.

lets fix our problems in our house before fixing everyone elses.
Al gore maybe had to be president and all, he fought to get parental advisory, so did others, like twisted sisters experiance, and now I think al gore had a lil bit more experiance than bush, because bush hasnt really done anything that made me think right, I voted for Bush(doing bets too) at school(which was fake ofcourse), and I got over 25 bucks out of others bets for Bush being president...
Psssst, VS, it wasn&#39;t Al Gore heading up the PMRC (the Parental Advisory folks), it was his wife Tipper..... [/b][/quote]
Oh yeah, I forgot...