Hmm???

[MANSON]

There are few holidays we can actually attribute to one man's vision. Kwanzaa is such a holiday - coined by RonKarenga in 1966. Who was Ron Karenga? Glad you asked.

He is a convicted felon - sentenced five years after inventing Kwanzaa for torturing two black women bywhipping them with electrical cords and beating them with a karate baton after stripping them naked. He placed in the mouth of one of the victims a hot soldering iron, also scarring her face with the device. He put one of her big toes in a vise, and detergent and
running water in both of their mouths. But that wasn't the beginning of the bizarre and
violent behavior of Karenga, the patron saint of Kwanzaa - not by a long shot.

Just about the time he was dreaming up this new holiday, he was also inventing a new political movement on the campus of UCLA. That movement was called "black cultural nationalism." His group was called United Slaves. And it was defined mainly by violent confrontations with the Black Panthers at UCLA. Two of his followers shot dead two members of the Panthers in 1969.

But no sooner did Karenga get out of prison on the torture charges in 1975 than all was forgotten about his criminal and violent past. He was proclaimed Saint Karenga. Four years later, he was running the Black Studies Department at California State University in Long Beach. How did he get that job in academia with his record? Glad you asked again.

Paul Mulshine, who has done an admirable job of chronicling Karenga's history for FrontPagemag.com, has a theory. Karenga had a jailhouse conversion. No, he did not become a born-again Christian. He did not renounce violence. He did not even repudiate his past. But he did become a Marxist. And, while becoming a Christian might have disqualified
him for a role in the world of the modern U.S. university, a conversion to Marxism was perceived as a sign of rehabilitation. The one-time psychopath had seen the light.

In conclusion, I hope this little cultural and history lesson helps you see the light - about Kwanzaa. It's being taught to your kids in your government schools. It's become a commercial bonanza in black communities through the United States. And, now, even the president of the United States is praising it as a legitimate holiday.
Good grief. What's wrong with America?

[solid snake295]

makes you wonder is Festivus (http://www.karber.net/seinfeld/festivus/) is real :rofl:

[Dark Reign]

:rolleyes:
What the bloody hell is wrong with teaching kids about Kwanzaa in public schools?

Even if the founder did all of that, it has nothing to do with the holiday and what it represents. It's a holiday that's just based on the foundations of life:
Unity, Purpose, Creativity, Faith, Self-Determination, Responsibility, Cooperation.
Not beating women or being violent.

Arguing that Kwanzaa is something "bad" or will turn our children into raping murders with the "fact" that the founder is himself is violent, is just plain retarded.

What's wrong with America? It's that we live in fear of each other.

[Slice]

Originally posted by Dark Reign@Jan 2 2004, 12:07 AM
:rolleyes:
What the bloody hell is wrong with teaching kids about Kwanzaa in public schools?

Even if the founder did all of that, it has nothing to do with the holiday and what it represents. It's a holiday that's just based on the foundations of life:
Unity, Purpose, Creativity, Faith, Self-Determination, Responsibility, Cooperation.
Not beating women or being violent.

Arguing that Kwanzaa is something "bad" or will turn our children into raping murders with the "fact" that the founder is himself is violent, is just plain retarded.

What's wrong with America? It's that we live in fear of each other.
What it means is be careful what you follow. How about Hitler, still like his ideas?

[Death-Dude]

Originally posted by solid snake295@Jan 1 2004, 09:51 PM
makes you wonder is Festivus (http://www.karber.net/seinfeld/festivus/) is real :rofl:
...and now, the Feats Of Strength!!

[Dark Reign]

Originally posted by Slice+Jan 2 2004, 04:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Slice @ Jan 2 2004, 04:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Dark Reign@Jan 2 2004, 12:07 AM
:rolleyes:
What the bloody hell is wrong with teaching kids about Kwanzaa in public schools?

Even if the founder did all of that, it has nothing to do with the holiday and what it represents. It&#39;s a holiday that&#39;s just based on the foundations of life:
Unity, Purpose, Creativity, Faith, Self-Determination, Responsibility, Cooperation.
Not beating women or being violent.

Arguing that Kwanzaa is something "bad" or will turn our children into raping murders with the "fact" that the founder is himself is violent, is just plain retarded.

What&#39;s wrong with America? It&#39;s that we live in fear of each other.
What it means is be careful what you follow. How about Hitler, still like his ideas? [/b][/quote]
I can see where you&#39;re getting at, but most of Hitler&#39;s ideas were identical to his most of his followers.
Now while the same can be said about some Kwanzaa followers, it&#39;s goes for saying that all religions have their extremists. Even those at the top.

[Slice]

Originally posted by Dark Reign+Jan 2 2004, 12:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dark Reign @ Jan 2 2004, 12:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Slice@Jan 2 2004, 04:17 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Dark Reign@Jan 2 2004, 12:07 AM
:rolleyes:
What the bloody hell is wrong with teaching kids about Kwanzaa in public schools?

Even if the founder did all of that, it has nothing to do with the holiday and what it represents. It&#39;s a holiday that&#39;s just based on the foundations of life:
Unity, Purpose, Creativity, Faith, Self-Determination, Responsibility, Cooperation.
Not beating women or being violent.

Arguing that Kwanzaa is something "bad" or will turn our children into raping murders with the "fact" that the founder is himself is violent, is just plain retarded.

What&#39;s wrong with America? It&#39;s that we live in fear of each other.
What it means is be careful what you follow. How about Hitler, still like his ideas?
I can see where you&#39;re getting at, but most of Hitler&#39;s ideas were identical to his most of his followers.
Now while the same can be said about some Kwanzaa followers, it&#39;s goes for saying that all religions have their extremists. Even those at the top. [/b][/quote]
I think you are missing the point. This guy founded a religion and was convicted for brutally beating women up. Are you trying to say that he still has a right to his teachings? Well guess what, he doesn&#39;t.

[Dark Reign]

Well, no, I suppose he wouldn&#39;t.

Here you have a holiday that black people celebrate that, like Christmas, teaches good values and morals.
And although it was founded by a woman-beating radical, Kwanzaa celebrates completely different morals.

So, you would be right in saying that you should be careful with what (or whom) you follow, but I don&#39;t think that&#39;s the point of the statement.
To me, it seems that it aims to mix the morals and values of Kwanzaa with it&#39;s founder&#39;s destructive behavior, to make the holiday look like something that it isn&#39;t.

[Dark Reign]

Originally posted by MANSON@Jan 2 2004, 03:25 AM
In conclusion, I hope this little cultural and history lesson helps you see the light - about Kwanzaa. It&#39;s being taught to your kids in your government schools. It&#39;s become a commercial bonanza in black communities through the United States. And, now, even the president of the United States is praising it as a legitimate holiday.
Good grief. What&#39;s wrong with America?
This is the specific part to my claim. The whole thing goes on about the founder of the holiday, but then argues that this what Kwanzaa is about.

Now, maybe if you supported the actual connection between Kwanzaa and the destructive behavior of the founder, then you might have a reasonable arguement.

[Slice]

Originally posted by Dark Reign+Jan 2 2004, 01:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dark Reign @ Jan 2 2004, 01:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MANSON@Jan 2 2004, 03:25 AM
In conclusion, I hope this little cultural and history lesson helps you see the light - about Kwanzaa. It&#39;s being taught to your kids in your government schools. It&#39;s become a commercial bonanza in black communities through the United States. And, now, even the president of the United States is praising it as a legitimate holiday.
Good grief. What&#39;s wrong with America?
This is the specific part to my claim. The whole thing goes on about the founder of the holiday, but then argues that this what Kwanzaa is about.

Now, maybe if you supported the actual connection between Kwanzaa and the destructive behavior of the founder, then you might have a reasonable arguement. [/b][/quote]
Not really, a house is only as good as it&#39;s foundation. I really think we are speaking empty as of this point.

[Dark Reign]

Originally posted by Slice+Jan 2 2004, 05:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Slice @ Jan 2 2004, 05:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Dark Reign@Jan 2 2004, 01:07 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-MANSON@Jan 2 2004, 03:25 AM
In conclusion, I hope this little cultural and history lesson helps you see the light - about Kwanzaa. It&#39;s being taught to your kids in your government schools. It&#39;s become a commercial bonanza in black communities through the United States. And, now, even the president of the United States is praising it as a legitimate holiday.
Good grief. What&#39;s wrong with America?
This is the specific part to my claim. The whole thing goes on about the founder of the holiday, but then argues that this what Kwanzaa is about.

Now, maybe if you supported the actual connection between Kwanzaa and the destructive behavior of the founder, then you might have a reasonable arguement.
Not really, a house is only as good as it&#39;s foundation. I really think we are speaking empty as of this point. [/b][/quote]
That may be true in some cases, but it&#39;s still an opinon, as is mine that the founder and the holiday have completely seperate values.
The holiday isn&#39;t a radical black supremecy celebration, it&#39;s completely different. You&#39;re just using the founder as an excuse to denounce it.

[Slice]

Originally posted by Dark Reign+Jan 2 2004, 01:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dark Reign @ Jan 2 2004, 01:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Slice@Jan 2 2004, 05:19 AM

Originally posted by Dark Reign@Jan 2 2004, 01:07 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-MANSON@Jan 2 2004, 03:25 AM
In conclusion, I hope this little cultural and history lesson helps you see the light - about Kwanzaa. It&#39;s being taught to your kids in your government schools. It&#39;s become a commercial bonanza in black communities through the United States. And, now, even the president of the United States is praising it as a legitimate holiday.
Good grief. What&#39;s wrong with America?
This is the specific part to my claim. The whole thing goes on about the founder of the holiday, but then argues that this what Kwanzaa is about.

Now, maybe if you supported the actual connection between Kwanzaa and the destructive behavior of the founder, then you might have a reasonable arguement.
Not really, a house is only as good as it&#39;s foundation. I really think we are speaking empty as of this point.
That may be true in some cases, but it&#39;s still an opinon, as is mine that the founder and the holiday have completely seperate values.
The holiday isn&#39;t a radical black supremecy celebration, it&#39;s completely different. You&#39;re just using the founder as an excuse to denounce it. [/b][/quote]
So you are saying that the holiday and the founder have seperate values? You are funny and make no sence. If you found something don&#39;t you base it on your own values? Come on give it up already. You will lose this stupid waste of my time argument. LOL

[Thundarr]

Originally posted by Slice+Jan 1 2004, 11:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Slice @ Jan 1 2004, 11:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Dark Reign@Jan 2 2004, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by Slice@Jan 2 2004, 04:17 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Dark Reign@Jan 2 2004, 12:07 AM
:rolleyes:
What the bloody hell is wrong with teaching kids about Kwanzaa in public schools?

Even if the founder did all of that, it has nothing to do with the holiday and what it represents. It&#39;s a holiday that&#39;s just based on the foundations of life:
Unity, Purpose, Creativity, Faith, Self-Determination, Responsibility, Cooperation.
Not beating women or being violent.

Arguing that Kwanzaa is something "bad" or will turn our children into raping murders with the "fact" that the founder is himself is violent, is just plain retarded.

What&#39;s wrong with America? It&#39;s that we live in fear of each other.
What it means is be careful what you follow. How about Hitler, still like his ideas?
I can see where you&#39;re getting at, but most of Hitler&#39;s ideas were identical to his most of his followers.
Now while the same can be said about some Kwanzaa followers, it&#39;s goes for saying that all religions have their extremists. Even those at the top.
I think you are missing the point. This guy founded a religion and was convicted for brutally beating women up. Are you trying to say that he still has a right to his teachings? Well guess what, he doesn&#39;t. [/b][/quote]
Slice, "Not really, a house is only as good as it&#39;s foundation. I really think we are speaking empty as of this point. "

So then are you saying that the leadership of the Catholic Church who allowed the abuses perpetrated by their priests to be concealed have no right to the teaching of Catholicism as well??? Yes, some of them are being removed from the church, but I imagine that there are plenty more where they came from... :hmmm:

[Dark Reign]

Originally posted by Slice+Jan 2 2004, 05:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Slice @ Jan 2 2004, 05:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Dark Reign@Jan 2 2004, 01:34 AM

Originally posted by Slice@Jan 2 2004, 05:19 AM

Originally posted by Dark Reign@Jan 2 2004, 01:07 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-MANSON@Jan 2 2004, 03:25 AM
In conclusion, I hope this little cultural and history lesson helps you see the light - about Kwanzaa. It&#39;s being taught to your kids in your government schools. It&#39;s become a commercial bonanza in black communities through the United States. And, now, even the president of the United States is praising it as a legitimate holiday.
Good grief. What&#39;s wrong with America?
This is the specific part to my claim. The whole thing goes on about the founder of the holiday, but then argues that this what Kwanzaa is about.

Now, maybe if you supported the actual connection between Kwanzaa and the destructive behavior of the founder, then you might have a reasonable arguement.
Not really, a house is only as good as it&#39;s foundation. I really think we are speaking empty as of this point.
That may be true in some cases, but it&#39;s still an opinon, as is mine that the founder and the holiday have completely seperate values.
The holiday isn&#39;t a radical black supremecy celebration, it&#39;s completely different. You&#39;re just using the founder as an excuse to denounce it.
So you are saying that the holiday and the founder have seperate values? You are funny and make no sence. If you found something don&#39;t you base it on your own values? Come on give it up already. You will lose this stupid waste of my time argument. LOL [/b][/quote]
Ok then Slice, if the holiday and the founder have the same values as you so claim, show me some goddamn proof, which you have yet to do.

Here&#39;s mine: http://www.cnn.com/EVENTS/1996/kwanzaa/
An unbiased look at the HOLIDAY of Kwanzaa. Hopefully you can understand that it is much different from that of women-beating.

Now show me your proof that the values of the founder and that of the holiday are similar, and I will retract my statements. Unless of course it&#39;s a waste of your time, which I&#39;m sure you need to use as much as possible.