The Passion of the Christ

[Death Engineer]

Has anyone seen this film? What are your thoughts/reactions about it and what have you heard?


I'll start by saying that my opinion of the movie is limited to what I've heard so far since I haven't seen it myself. With that being said, the movie is supposed to follow the Gospels very closely. I have heard that it is brutal almost to the point of being disgusting. But that it accurately portrays what is in the Bible.

I'll post more on my thoughts once I have seen the movie (tonight).

Passion Movie (http://www.thepassionofthechrist.com)

[Sepra]

Wow, looks like a very moving movie. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

[PJ'l_Master]

i want to see it really bad

[JIMINATOR]

yes, i think its ironic that historically such a big deal has been made
about the death of christ, whereas worse torture, mutilation and death
have been inflicted on tons of people, historically and also presently for
tons of reasons.
I guess none of it counts unless you create a religion.

[Ra\/en]

Originally posted by JIMINATOR@Feb 26 2004, 11:43 AM
yes, i think its ironic that historically such a big deal has been made
about the death of christ, whereas worse torture, mutilation and death
have been inflicted on tons of people, historically and also presently for
tons of reasons.
I guess none of it counts unless you create a religion.
whatever.




in regards to your question about the movie, i found it very violent yes.

but it was very moving and very true (in my opinion) to what christ had to go through. For me it was a stark reminder that i should not take for granted what i have been given. often i do...



and it really confuses me why everybody is in such an uproar about this movie. You dont hear such widespread complaints about any other movies. What about kill bill and its SENSELESS violence. i mean that movie doesnt even try to have a purpose behind the blood. There could be no greater importance to the blood of christ in this film.

Is it not odd that a movie that portrays people unwilling to accept Christ and him being tortured and killed by them, should be so ill-recieved by people of this day?

[JIMINATOR]

Originally posted by Ra\/en@Feb 26 2004, 01:57 PM
Is it not odd that a movie that portrays people unwilling to accept Christ and him being tortured and killed by them, should be so ill-recieved by people of this day?
interesting that you should say that. personally, i believe in the message of christ,
not the messengers. if someone came up to you today, and told you to throw away
everything you believed in, would you go for it? or would you call it a cult? people
have their deep seated beliefs, and i don't think anyone should be criticised for
that, especially by others with deep seated beliefs who happen to believe that
everyone else is wrong and need to change.

[Die Hard]

I've seen some previews and it looks good.

As with any movie that has a religious slant it will inevitably upset some people.

[Nick]

Originally posted by JIMINATOR@Feb 26 2004, 02:43 PM
yes, i think its ironic that historically such a big deal has been made
about the death of christ, whereas worse torture, mutilation and death
have been inflicted on tons of people, historically and also presently for
tons of reasons.
I guess none of it counts unless you create a religion.
touché !!!


what I find odd is that people seem to link the belief that this really happened
to Jesus with the fact that he was the son of God...

I personally believe that what happened to him is absolutly true...

That he was the son of God.... no more than you or me are...

Religion was created as a means to control people when people started to create towns and cities as opposed to the hunter gatherer way of life and now had no good reason not to steal or kill his neighbor....

Jesus just created a version that favored the common man which angered the
people in power at the time...

I would of thought Religion would have become obsolete with the advent of
education and science...guess not ....:WTF:

[Sepra]

:watchmovie:

[OUTLAWS 9.99repeating^32]

I'm an athiest so it doesn't interest me enough to see it..

..but I did hear that a woman died of a heart attack while watching it(due to trauma from the movie). So it must have some substance to it.

[ME BIGGD01]

i am looking forward to seeing it and agree with you raven with what you said 100%. we all take life for granted and i plan to see this as soon as i get the chance. i will not discuss religion here (has nothing to do with the way i discuss politics.)

i hope it is as the reviews say it is because i would like those who once believed to believe again and actually feel what is happening in the movie. i respect mel gibson for this for doing it.

[ME BIGGD01]

1 more thing---although religion should not be discussed here, i feel that people here should not make it sound like the root of all evils. regardless of anyone's faith, a family that is born in a religous family are raised with good morals and compassion. i think the more people degrade religion, they only add to the disfunction of society. if you have no faith, please do not try to take others faith away. i only pray my daughter has faith as she gets older. it is my responsibilty to share it with her. i wish more families would put their religion back in their home. maybe their wouldnt be as much evil in the world.

all religions are fine. it's the faith that matters :thumbs:

[ME BIGGD01]

Originally posted by 9.99repeating^32@Feb 26 2004, 07:59 PM
I'm an athiest so it doesn't interest me enough to see it..

..but I did hear that a woman died of a heart attack while watching it(due to trauma from the movie). So it must have some substance to it.
i use to say the same thing when i was your age. i just didnt know what i was saying. one day you may be kneeling donw to pray to some god for something. :thumbs:

[Nick]

Originally posted by ME BIGGD01@Feb 26 2004, 05:02 PM
1 more thing---although religion should not be discussed here, i feel that people here should not make it sound like the root of all evils.  regardless of anyone's faith, a family that is born in a religous family are raised with good morals and compassion.  i think the more people degrade religion, they only add to the disfunction of society.  if you have no faith, please do not try to take others faith away.  i only pray my daughter has faith as she gets older.  it is my responsibilty to share it with her.  i wish more families would put their religion back in their home.  maybe their wouldnt be as much evil in the world.

all religions are fine.  it's the faith that matters :thumbs:
it's the message of kindness towards others that's important...

the mechanics of it are unimportant...and totally irrelevant...
what really causes disfunction is fights over which religion is the right one !!!!!

even if I have faith that the tooth fairy really exists....it wont make it so.......

[Death Engineer]

Originally posted by JIMINATOR@Feb 26 2004, 01:43 PM
yes, i think its ironic that historically such a big deal has been made
about the death of christ, whereas worse torture, mutilation and death
have been inflicted on tons of people, historically and also presently for
tons of reasons.
I guess none of it counts unless you create a religion.
Well, I'm sure you would discount my view as biased, but I would say you're on to something when you say that people treat the death of Christ as different.

You are correct in pointing out that many others have died tragic deaths; some for noble causes and some for no reason at all. However, there are a few things that set Christs death apart from others. His claim that He was God's son and His resurrection are just two obvious ones.



To the rest of you, I know this topic is heated, but lets keep this thread clean and have a good debate. Thanks to those who have kept it that way so far.

[ME BIGGD01]

yeah right, now you are going to tell me there is no tooth fairy :bawling:


belief and faith have their differences.

i believe it's going to be fun at the party----
i have faith that the party is going to be fun--

[JIMINATOR]

well, all the issues are muddled. it's kind of interesting to read about
comparisons of old bibles, and see how some stuff is added or changed,
like the ascension at the end of john. I make no claims about anything.

to my mind, the son of god thing is ludicrous. I believe that we are all
the children of god. Jesus himself said he was the son of god as were
they all. the disciples however didn't accept that, he was
some "special" son of god, and that continues. you also have the
resurrection, where he was not recognized by some of his disciples. like
what was that really about?

It just seems strange that the message of Christ has become much less
important than the messenger. That has become pretty much the
hook to reel people into church, as pretty much all religions preach love
and compassion.

I have read the davinci code. interesting reading as is the book it is
based on. maybe all bogus, maybe not. one of the things it claims was
that mary magdalene was an apostle, not a whore, and she was the
wife of Christ and had a couple of kids by him. they fled to Europe, the
church changed her story line, and sent assassins to kill the offspring.
debunked maybe, but still makes for interesting reading.

[ME BIGGD01]

was there anything in there about the tooth fairy, i need to know :P

[Nitro]

I am tired of people b1ching and moaning about how bloody the movie is. There have been many horror movies (The Thing, Event Horizon) with much more graphic blood.
They are using that only to try to condemn the movie because it has religious aspects in it, and they don't want religion in anything.

[EXEcution]

As long as we believe, anything can exist.
Right?

[MR. SLiK]

im not athiest nor do i believe that religion is the root of evil by any means, but the truth is that more people have been killed over religion than any other.

[Death Engineer]

Ok. Here's the scoop from someone who just saw the movie.

It is powerful. There is no way around it. I was moved to tears and beyond. My skin crawled at the brutal beating Jesus endured before even beginning the road to the cross. I will definitely say that it is the most graphic film I have ever seen. The scouraging is so real... The violence is more grotesque than any horror film you've ever seen, guaranteed.

I, personally, found it very hard to watch knowing that even if I was the only person on earth, Christ still would have died to pay the penalty for my sins. And not just die, but SUFFER immensely!

After seeing the movie, the only thing that really stood out as not being in the gospels was the human representation of satan. But the effect was good in setting an evil mood.

The entire audience watched the entire credits and then walked out of the theater in stark silence. Quite powerful.

[Death Engineer]

Originally posted by JIMINATOR@Feb 26 2004, 05:28 PM
well, all the issues are muddled. it's kind of interesting to read about
comparisons of old bibles, and see how some stuff is added or changed,
like the ascension at the end of john. I make no claims about anything.

to my mind, the son of god thing is ludicrous. I believe that we are all
the children of god. Jesus himself said he was the son of god as were
they all. the disciples however didn't accept that, he was
some "special" son of god, and that continues. you also have the
resurrection, where he was not recognized by some of his disciples. like
what was that really about?

It just seems strange that the message of Christ has become much less
important than the messenger. That has become pretty much the
hook to reel people into church, as pretty much all religions preach love
and compassion.

I have read the davinci code. interesting reading as is the book it is
based on. maybe all bogus, maybe not. one of the things it claims was
that mary magdalene was an apostle, not a whore, and she was the
wife of Christ and had a couple of kids by him. they fled to Europe, the
church changed her story line, and sent assassins to kill the offspring.
debunked maybe, but still makes for interesting reading.
Actually, not too long ago, some very old scrolls containing ancient manuscripts of the Bible were compared to todays translations. In the entire passage that was preserved, only a handful of things didn't line up exactly. And those things were not relevent to the main point of the passage.

I believe in the audacity and truth of the Bible in it's original text. I do believe that we are all "sons of God", but not in the same sense as "...the one and only begotten son" (John 3:16).

History doesn't lie, and I believe if you study these things from an objective point of view, as many scholars before our time have done, you will find a historical basis that supports the Biblical version.

I, for one, appreciate Jims honesty in sharing what he believes. What do the rest of you think?

[Mr Clean]

There is no doubt that what happened to Christ is true. Historically it has been verified in multiple independent ways that Christ existed and that he died via crucification. Some 30,000 Jews died this way while under the Roman occupation, and the horrors of being crucified are also well documented. Art, at the very least, is supposed to invoke thought and discussion, so Gibson has already succeeded in that.

To Jim's first pont I would agree in a way...Christ's death is not the most horrific but the best example of man's boldness with another's life....that is, it should not surprise anyone what man has done when he would do what was done to the Son of God.

Raven your point is good and I while I can understand the Jewish community's concern about this movie, I would like to make three points to them:

1) It is a true story. Jews today are no more responsible for what happened than I as a White are responsible for slavery in America. But this story, like many stories, is told for many reasons and is told because of the important lessons contained within it. We can quarrel over what certain passages in Matthew mean, but that is not the point of this movie. They are missing the forest and looking at one tree.

2) I have never, ever, heard a Jew voice concern that Schindler's List was going to inflame anti-German sentiment in the world. You cannot have it both ways. Tragedies have been a form of theatre since man has told stories, and true stories make the best tragedies. To praise Holocaust movies and denounce this one is as two faced as it gets.

3) Anyone who sees this movie and says they are against Jews were against them before they even bought the ticket. This movie is not going to convert people into anti-Semites. Hatred is bred over time, not in an instant.

Nick:

Religion was created as a means to control people when people started to create towns and cities as opposed to the hunter gatherer way of life and now had no good reason not to steal or kill his neighbor....

It could also be said that it was man's acceptance of the message of God that allowed him to finally rise up and move towards civilization, could it not? America, for example, is based on Christianity. All of it. I often ask people who are athiests here why they still live and work in this country if they are so opposed to the idea of God or religion....never have gotten a good answer back on that one...

To the books that have come out, like the Bible Code and the DaVinci Code, I would like to warn people. It is common practice in all science and math to have a peer review of your work in order to ascertain whether proper theory and procedures were used to get the answer derived. That hasn't been done with these books because they writers are reluctant to let others see their work for fear that it will be "stolen". Unfortunately that means how accurate that stuff was done is unknown. Mathematically speaking, all languages have a certain "rythm" to them. There is an order to language even if we don't really realize it. So when someone says they can apply higher algorithmic functions to these passages, that actualy isn't all that surprising.

Look at English.....say bold, daring, risky, tricky, dangerous, sick...you have sharper pronounciations, using letters that are said more abrupt...while words like soothe, well, safe, easy, nice....these flow off the tongue better, are not as sharp...notice the meaning of the sharper words as opposed to the words that flow? Such is the nature of language, and it makes sense when you stop and think about it. Man has made his language reflect the tone of the context. The human brain is the most powerful computer in the world, and as man has developed his ability to use logic his brain as used that logic to develop how his language is used.

This last part was a little off topic but I wanted to thoroughly explain some things about books like the DaVinci Code...

[Scorch]

Originally posted by MR. SLiK@Feb 26 2004, 11:56 PM
im not athiest nor do i believe that religion is the root of evil by any means, but the truth is that more people have been killed over religion than any other.
:thumbs:

[JIMINATOR]

Originally posted by Mr Clean@Feb 27 2004, 03:59 AM
America, for example, is based on Christianity. All of it.
Hmmm, I take exception to that statement. Christianity (in its various forms) may
be the major religion in America, but the US was not founded as a Christian
nation, and the founders took great pain to ensure the seperation of church and
state. Percentagewise, the numbers are decreasing, 86% in 1990 to 77% in 2001.
The fastest growing religion here is "none of the above".

[Death Engineer]

Originally posted by JIMINATOR+Feb 27 2004, 10:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JIMINATOR @ Feb 27 2004, 10:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mr Clean@Feb 27 2004, 03:59 AM
America, for example, is based on Christianity.&nbsp; All of it.
Hmmm, I take exception to that statement. Christianity (in its various forms) may
be the major religion in America, but the US was not founded as a Christian
nation, and the founders took great pain to ensure the seperation of church and
state. Percentagewise, the numbers are decreasing, 86% in 1990 to 77% in 2001.
The fastest growing religion here is "none of the above". [/b][/quote]
I think what Mr. Clean is referring to is how (and for what reasons) our country was formed.

[Nick]

Originally posted by Mr Clean@Feb 27 2004, 04:59 AM

It could also be said that it was man&#39;s acceptance of the message of God that allowed him to finally rise up and move towards civilization, could it not?&nbsp; America, for example, is based on Christianity.&nbsp; All of it.&nbsp; I often ask people who are athiests here why they still live and work in this country if they are so opposed to the idea of God or religion....never have gotten a good answer back on that one...
...
HEU...
Well....the first civilisation (I forget the name) was set up in south america around
30 000 bc... it was set-up due to trade....they made cotton nets for the fishermen
on the coast... from archeological excavations (this was before the iron age) it
seemed to be an ideal civilisation with no or little violence...

a series of civilisations followed ( egyptian, roman etc..) with many of these much
more violent and with complex beliefs and usually many gods to worship...

I also read that the dead sea scrolls (the one you were refering to) were written
by john....they are not sure which though.... :hmmm: maybe jhon the baptist
or john the apostle....or maybe anothe john....how can you take texts litterally
when you cant be sure who wrote them :hmmm:

Catholitism was created in 33 AD appx.. so..... the mesage of God came a bit late for it to be the basis of civilisation....

[Pure_Evil]

Originally posted by Ra&#092;/en@Feb 26 2004, 01:57 PM
You dont hear such widespread complaints about any other movies. What about kill bill and its SENSELESS violence. i mean that movie doesnt even try to have a purpose behind the blood.
In Kill Bill, the purpose was comedy.

As far as "The Passion of the Christ" it&#39;s just a movie, nothing more, nothing less. Another form of entertainment.

[Mr Clean]

Originally posted by JIMINATOR+Feb 27 2004, 09:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JIMINATOR @ Feb 27 2004, 09:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mr Clean@Feb 27 2004, 03:59 AM
America, for example, is based on Christianity.&nbsp; All of it.
Hmmm, I take exception to that statement. Christianity (in its various forms) may
be the major religion in America, but the US was not founded as a Christian
nation, and the founders took great pain to ensure the seperation of church and
state. Percentagewise, the numbers are decreasing, 86% in 1990 to 77% in 2001.
The fastest growing religion here is "none of the above". [/b][/quote]
Our laws are based on Christian beliefs (Thou shall not kill, thou shall not covet thy neighbors property, etc.). The Bill of Rights is just the things that people were fighting for during the Roman occupation (freedon of religion, freedom of speech, etc). Democracy itself assumes that "all men are created equal"...where do you think that phrase came from?

This country was founded by Christian people who, when they started it, incorporated Christian beliefs, values, and ideas into it.

[Mr Clean]

Originally posted by Nick@Feb 27 2004, 10:30 AM
Catholitism was created in 33 AD appx.. so..... the mesage of God came a bit late for it to be the basis of civilisation....
:blink:

Jesus was not the first messanger of God. Who said civilization was started after his death? All I am saying is that maybe the acceptance of God&#39;s message is what gave man the structure to rise up from what they were. I didn&#39;t say it was Jesus that delivered that message.

[JIMINATOR]

Originally posted by Mr Clean@Feb 27 2004, 01:13 PM
Our laws are based on Christian beliefs (Thou shall not kill, thou shall not covet thy neighbors property, etc.).&nbsp; The Bill of Rights is just the things that people were fighting for during the Roman occupation (freedon of religion, freedom of speech, etc).&nbsp; Democracy itself assumes that "all men are created equal"...where do you think that phrase came from?

This country was founded by Christian people who, when they started it, incorporated Christian beliefs, values, and ideas into it.
Hmmm, those are not christian beliefs. they come from the old testament,
and form the foundations for judaism, muslims, etc.

As for christian values in early america.... they certainly were not applied to the
native americans who were purposely decimated as a result of expansion.

[solid snake295]

might be funny to some people, might piss other people off.... oh well i waisted a half an hour on this :rofl:

heres how i think the movie should be, i would expect nothing less. :shifty:









http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion2/solid_snake/images/lastsupper_2.jpg

[EXEcution]

Originally posted by Pure_Evil+Feb 27 2004, 12:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pure_Evil @ Feb 27 2004, 12:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Ra&#092;/en@Feb 26 2004, 01:57 PM
You dont hear such widespread complaints about any other movies.&nbsp; What about kill bill and its SENSELESS violence.&nbsp; i mean that movie doesnt even try to have a purpose behind the blood.
In Kill Bill, the purpose was comedy.

As far as "The Passion of the Christ" it&#39;s just a movie, nothing more, nothing less. Another form of entertainment. [/b][/quote]
No kill bill was not supposed to be comedic, if you actualy saw it, the movie was very well developed and had a deep plot.
And i enjoyed watching it as well. :wave:

[Death Engineer]

Originally posted by Nick+Feb 27 2004, 11:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nick @ Feb 27 2004, 11:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mr Clean@Feb 27 2004, 04:59 AM

It could also be said that it was man&#39;s acceptance of the message of God that allowed him to finally rise up and move towards civilization, could it not?* America, for example, is based on Christianity.* All of it.* I often ask people who are athiests here why they still live and work in this country if they are so opposed to the idea of God or religion....never have gotten a good answer back on that one...
...
HEU...
Well....the first civilisation (I forget the name) was set up in south america around
30 000 bc... it was set-up due to trade....they made cotton nets for the fishermen
on the coast... from archeological excavations (this was before the iron age) it
seemed to be an ideal civilisation with no or little violence...

a series of civilisations followed ( egyptian, roman etc..) with many of these much
more violent and with complex beliefs and usually many gods to worship...

I also read that the dead sea scrolls (the one you were refering to) were written
by john....they are not sure which though.... :hmmm: maybe jhon the baptist
or john the apostle....or maybe anothe john....how can you take texts litterally
when you cant be sure who wrote them :hmmm:

Catholitism was created in 33 AD appx.. so..... the mesage of God came a bit late for it to be the basis of civilisation.... [/b][/quote]
Who wrote that article about the scrolls? Do you know them? How can you know if they are telling the truth about the scrolls?

You see, we take people&#39;s word for it all the time. Only with the Bible, we have conclusive evidence through various means that it is unequivocally true. Historically, it is backed up by various other historical documents. Archeologists continue to use the Bible to this day to find ruins and they continue to uncover things that support the Bible.

[Nick]

THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS PROJECT
1992-93 ANNUAL REPORT
Norman Golb
The Dead Sea Scrolls Project was established by the Oriental Institute during the months that followed the freeing of the scrolls (autumn 1991). Staffed by the writer and Dr. Michael Wise, Assistant Professor of Aramaic in the Department of Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations, as well as by our graduate research assistant, Anthony Tomasino, the project from the beginning developed in several directions. First and foremost, there was the challenging task of deciphering and translating, from photographs, the manuscripts from Qumran Cave Four that had previously remained unpublished. This fundamental responsibility was undertaken by Dr. Wise with Mr. Tomasino&#39;s assistance and, in the earlier stages, that of several other graduate students (these included Deborah Friedrich, Michael Douglas, and David Clemens). These initial efforts have already led to valuable results; see, for instance, R. Eisenman and M. Wise, The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered (Dorset, 1992).

Dr. Wise has recently had accepted for publication by Sheffield Academic Press a volume of essays entitled Thunder in Gemini: Essays on Second Temple Judaism. The volume includes discussions of various Dead Sea Scrolls (both Hebrew and Aramaic texts), Aramaic materials from Masada, and Josephus, the Jewish historian who wrote in Greek. He has also had accepted two articles on topics about the Dead Sea Scrolls, one on the Aramaic texts of the apocryphal writing Tobit from Cave Four, and one on an Aramaic magical incantation to be used as protection against disease-causing demons. These articles will appear in the journals Vetus Testamentum and Journal of Biblical Literature, respectively. He has begun research on another book dealing with scrolls that promote physiognomy-the "science" of determining a person&#39;s fate or character on the basis of an appraisal of his or her physical characteristics. The scrolls themselves are written in both Hebrew and Aramaic; the comparative materials that promise to shed light on their contents come from various regions and periods and are written in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and other languages. In addition, since one of the Dead Sea Scrolls on physiognomy is inscribed in a code, this volume will deal with the cryptic texts among the scrolls in general. Three different cryptic codes are known, two of which have never been broken. Having already deciphered the first cryptic script, Dr. Wise hopes to do the same with the two holdouts in the course of the next year.

Figure 1. The escarpment to the west of Khirbet Qumran, where many of the manuscript-bearing caves are located.

Figure 2. Detail of the Khirbet Qumran tower; note the buttressing ramp of boulders and the fine stonework of the original vertical structure.

The present writer&#39;s undertaking has, on the other hand, been to explore the overall problem of identification of the authors of the scrolls and, increasingly, to examine the specifics of the Khirbet Qumran site and the theory that the manuscripts found in the nearby caves were composed by a sect ostensibly living there. The investigation to date has resulted in a book, Who Wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls?, to be published by Macmillan in the winter of 1994. The main conclusion of this study with regard to the archaeology of Khirbet Qumran is that the site itself, given its many telling features, could have been nothing except a fortress strategically guarding the eastern approaches to Jerusalem. Among the features of the site showing military characteristics are its well-buttressed watchtower, the reservoirs capable of supplying water to a troop of eight hundred men over the entire eight months of the dry season, the signs of a battle between the inhabitants and Roman besiegers ca. 70/72 a.d., and the adjacent 1,200 graves having characteristics of a post-battle cemetery. Qumran and Machaerus-the Herodian fortress east of the Dead Sea-are in direct line of sight of each other, and both served as bastions designed to ward off invasions of Judaea from Nabataea and other trans-Jordanian territories.

Figure 3. Aerial view of Khirbet Qumran (view to south); note its commanding position and the impressive complex of building-remnants, walls, and cisterns. The tower is in the foreground.

There are no substantial proofs that Essenes or other Jewish sectarians lived at this site, and the many new cave manuscripts now being transcribed and translated add to the total historical picture of events on the eve of the Roman siege of Jerusalem (70 a.d.). The texts, of great diversity in their ideas, literary styles, and idioms-and written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek-could only have come from important libraries in Jerusalem, which the Jews desperately sought to hide away, along with treasures and other important possessions, prior to the tightening of the Roman stranglehold on the capitol. The Copper Scroll, found in Cave Three, describes many of these acts of hiding in detail. Future research will hopefully reveal further details of these efforts and of the complexity of social and religious thinking among the Palestinian Jews of that period who wrote the texts deposited in the caves.

Growing out of our work on the project came the idea of an International Conference on the Scrolls, which was held in December 1992 under the aegis of the New York Academy of Sciences and the Oriental Institute. Thirty papers were read at this conference, and it was reported on in detail in the New York Times (see particularly "Science Times" of December 22, 1992) and elsewhere. The conference contributed significantly to a changing public perception of the nature and importance of the scrolls, showing particularly that many of the old ideas about the texts and the Khirbet Qumran site are now being challenged and, in many cases, replaced by new interpretations. The Proceedings of the conference will be published in full by the Academy in 1994. The conference itself, it should be noted, could not have been held without the strong support of the Oriental Institute and its Director, William Sumner, from the very beginning of our efforts to organize it. In the end, what was accomplished was an endorsement of the principle of free and open debate among scholars holding mutually opposing theories and beliefs-a goal vigorously championed not only by the Oriental Institute but by the University of Chicago as a whole from the time of its founding.

[Slice]

Originally posted by solid snake295@Feb 27 2004, 03:44 PM
might be funny to some people, might piss other people off.... oh well i waisted a half an hour on this :rofl:

heres how i think the movie should be, i would expect nothing less. :shifty:









http://www.angelfire.com/rebellion2/solid_snake/images/lastsupper_2.jpg
:rofl: Finally some humor in this pointless thread.

[Death Engineer]

@Slice: Out of all the threads in Off-Topic, this one is far from pointless. :rolleyes:

@Nick: While I enjoyed your post, I think you missed my point. Have you checked the validity of that document? Do you know him personally? How many other sources can varify what was stated? I&#39;m just using the same arguments people use against the Bible on your document.

[Slice]

Originally posted by Death Engineer@Feb 28 2004, 11:44 AM
@Slice: Out of all the threads in Off-Topic, this one is far from pointless. :rolleyes:

@Nick: While I enjoyed your post, I think you missed my point. Have you checked the validity of that document? Do you know him personally? How many other sources can varify what was stated? I&#39;m just using the same arguments people use against the Bible on your document.
Yes, it is pointless. First of all the topic was started by you asking about your opinion about the movie. It has now turned in to a religious debate as do all topics here if you even mention religion.

[Pure_Evil]

Originally posted by .:EXEcution:.+Feb 27 2004, 02:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (.:EXEcution:. @ Feb 27 2004, 02:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Pure_Evil@Feb 27 2004, 12:33 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Ra&#092;/en@Feb 26 2004, 01:57 PM
You dont hear such widespread complaints about any other movies.* What about kill bill and its SENSELESS violence.* i mean that movie doesnt even try to have a purpose behind the blood.
In Kill Bill, the purpose was comedy.

As far as "The Passion of the Christ" it&#39;s just a movie, nothing more, nothing less. Another form of entertainment.
No kill bill was not supposed to be comedic, if you actualy saw it, the movie was very well developed and had a deep plot.
And i enjoyed watching it as well. :wave: [/b][/quote]
Dude, I saw it on my Birthday :P I&#39;m a sick puppy, so I saw humor in it. Me and Morqarna were :rofl: :rofl: the whole flick. :thumbs:

[EXEcution]

Originally posted by Pure_Evil+Feb 28 2004, 05:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pure_Evil @ Feb 28 2004, 05:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by .:EXEcution:.@Feb 27 2004, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by Pure_Evil@Feb 27 2004, 12:33 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Ra&#092;/en@Feb 26 2004, 01:57 PM
You dont hear such widespread complaints about any other movies.* What about kill bill and its SENSELESS violence.* i mean that movie doesnt even try to have a purpose behind the blood.
In Kill Bill, the purpose was comedy.

As far as "The Passion of the Christ" it&#39;s just a movie, nothing more, nothing less. Another form of entertainment.
No kill bill was not supposed to be comedic, if you actualy saw it, the movie was very well developed and had a deep plot.
And i enjoyed watching it as well. :wave:
Dude, I saw it on my Birthday :P I&#39;m a sick puppy, so I saw humor in it. Me and Morqarna were :rofl: :rofl: the whole flick. :thumbs: [/b][/quote]
Im scared fo u then&#33; ph34r

[Pure_Evil]

Originally posted by .:EXEcution:.+Feb 28 2004, 04:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (.:EXEcution:. @ Feb 28 2004, 04:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Pure_Evil@Feb 28 2004, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by .:EXEcution:.@Feb 27 2004, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by Pure_Evil@Feb 27 2004, 12:33 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Ra&#092;/en@Feb 26 2004, 01:57 PM
You dont hear such widespread complaints about any other movies.* What about kill bill and its SENSELESS violence.* i mean that movie doesnt even try to have a purpose behind the blood.
In Kill Bill, the purpose was comedy.

As far as "The Passion of the Christ" it&#39;s just a movie, nothing more, nothing less. Another form of entertainment.
No kill bill was not supposed to be comedic, if you actualy saw it, the movie was very well developed and had a deep plot.
And i enjoyed watching it as well. :wave:
Dude, I saw it on my Birthday :P I&#39;m a sick puppy, so I saw humor in it. Me and Morqarna were :rofl: :rofl: the whole flick. :thumbs:
Im scared fo u then&#33; ph34r [/b][/quote]
I thought Kill Bill 2 was supposed to be released in Feb :WTF:


Man I laughed the loudest when she cut that chics arm off and stuffed her in the trunk and threatened to cut off the other if she didn&#39;t talk :jammin:


This other movie, to serious for me, I&#39;m depressed enough, it&#39;s not like when they gutted Gibson in Braveheart :w00t: :thumbs: that was cool, Gbson dying in this one wont be funny :mellow: so I&#39;ll save the &#036;9 or spend it on a Sweedish Pron DVD and send it to sexy&#39;s BF when I&#39;m bored with it ;)



:wave: Slicey

[EXEcution]

Originally posted by Pure_Evil+Feb 28 2004, 08:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pure_Evil @ Feb 28 2004, 08:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by .:EXEcution:.@Feb 28 2004, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Pure_Evil@Feb 28 2004, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by .:EXEcution:.@Feb 27 2004, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by Pure_Evil@Feb 27 2004, 12:33 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Ra&#092;/en@Feb 26 2004, 01:57 PM
You dont hear such widespread complaints about any other movies.* What about kill bill and its SENSELESS violence.* i mean that movie doesnt even try to have a purpose behind the blood.
In Kill Bill, the purpose was comedy.

As far as "The Passion of the Christ" it&#39;s just a movie, nothing more, nothing less. Another form of entertainment.
No kill bill was not supposed to be comedic, if you actualy saw it, the movie was very well developed and had a deep plot.
And i enjoyed watching it as well. :wave:
Dude, I saw it on my Birthday :P I&#39;m a sick puppy, so I saw humor in it. Me and Morqarna were :rofl: :rofl: the whole flick. :thumbs:
Im scared fo u then&#33; ph34r
I thought Kill Bill 2 was supposed to be released in Feb :WTF:


Man I laughed the loudest when she cut that chics arm off and stuffed her in the trunk and threatened to cut off the other if she didn&#39;t talk :jammin:


This other movie, to serious for me, I&#39;m depressed enough, it&#39;s not like when they gutted Gibson in Braveheart :w00t: :thumbs: that was cool, Gbson dying in this one wont be funny :mellow: so I&#39;ll save the &#036;9 or spend it on a Sweedish Pron DVD and send it to sexy&#39;s BF when I&#39;m bored with it ;)



:wave: Slicey [/b][/quote]
:rofl: :rofl:

[Death Engineer]

Well, I guess we all have our opinions about which threads are pointless. While this one has gotten somewhat off-track from my original question, I would still rank it far beyond many of the other threads I would deem pointless that are still on the first page. For pointless thread though, Slice sure seems to enjoy coming back. ;)

Anyways...anyone else see the film and have comments?

BTW: Gibson doesn&#39;t die in this film. He&#39;s just the director. His hand is in one shot where they are driving the nails through his hands though.

[PJ'l_Master]

there is a thing on the history channel tonight about it @ 10 PM EST that i am gonna watch

[Mr Clean]

Originally posted by JIMINATOR+Feb 27 2004, 12:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JIMINATOR &#064; Feb 27 2004, 12:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mr Clean@Feb 27 2004, 01:13 PM
Our laws are based on Christian beliefs (Thou shall not kill, thou shall not covet thy neighbors property, etc.).* The Bill of Rights is just the things that people were fighting for during the Roman occupation (freedon of religion, freedom of speech, etc).* Democracy itself assumes that "all men are created equal"...where do you think that phrase came from?

This country was founded by Christian people who, when they started it, incorporated Christian beliefs, values, and ideas into it.
Hmmm, those are not christian beliefs. they come from the old testament,
and form the foundations for judaism, muslims, etc.

As for christian values in early america.... they certainly were not applied to the
native americans who were purposely decimated as a result of expansion. [/b][/quote]
If they are not part of the Christian faith why are they included in everyone&#39;s Bible? Of COURSE they are part of the Christian faith, and a lot of things in the Old Testament are found in the New Testament as well....your point makes no sense.

Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are all descended from the Old Testament and all three consider Moses to be an important prophet.

I do not disagree with you on the Native American thing, but then that wasn&#39;t part of the discussion either. I said the country was founded on Christian standards, I never said that everyone in America acted that way....

[MANSON]

Just went to see Passion of the Christ last night and I have to say it was very good&#33; I wanted to jump in the screen so bad and kick some serious butt&#33;&#33; The movie made me really mad to see how they treated Jesus&#33;&#33; I never realized he went through that much pain&#33;&#33; It makes you see what he really did for us&#33;&#33; A truely great movie&#33;&#33;

[BobtheCkroach]

You can call me a baby, but I cried my eyes out seeing the visualization of what Jesus went through, just for me and people like me. Wow.

[BobtheCkroach]

I realized after I submitted it that "me and people like me" got the wrong message across. I should have said "all of us"...What i meant was me, and all of us, who are lowly sinners. Sorry if anyone read that and interpreted that as derogatory, insulting, etc...not my intent.

[solid snake295]

Originally posted by BobtheCkroach@Mar 7 2004, 12:34 AM
I realized after I submitted it that "me and people like me" got the wrong message across. I should have said "all of us"...What i meant was me, and all of us, who are lowly sinners. Sorry if anyone read that and interpreted that as derogatory, insulting, etc...not my intent.
:rolleyes: http://www.gamemecca.net/forums/style_images/1/p_edit.gif :P

[EXEcution]

Originally posted by BobtheCkroach@Mar 7 2004, 12:34 AM
I realized after I submitted it that "me and people like me" got the wrong message across. I should have said "all of us"...What i meant was me, and all of us, who are lowly sinners. Sorry if anyone read that and interpreted that as derogatory, insulting, etc...not my intent.
Its ok i got ya.... not like u got anything to lose since u barely post here.

[BobtheCkroach]

Agreed, I don&#39;t have anything to lose, but I&#39;m just as opposed to Christians that act like they&#39;re a better person than non-Christians than any other person is. They may believe in the right God, but they&#39;re missing the point completely if they think that believing in Jesus makes them a better person. I didn&#39;t want to come across as one of those people.

And WOW&#33; There&#39;s an edit button?&#33;