Uh-oh... Bush a Flip Flopper too??? Winning the War on Terror or Not?

[Thundarr]

MSNBC Story (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5865710/)

[OUTLAWS Tip]

At least he did not disgrace all the veterans who fought in Vietnam. Kerry's comments upon returning to the USA were a slap in the face to all that sacrificed their lives in that war and those who were lucky enough to make it home.
:down: :down:

[Pure_Evil]

you can't hold Bush responsible for what he says, he doesn't even know what he's saying.....

also, I like how the other thread about the NYC FF and police still don't have a contract yet died right out... nice way to support our 9/11 heros :down:

[Pure_Evil]

At least he did not disgrace all the veterans who fought in Vietnam. Kerry's comments upon returning to the USA were a slap in the face to all that sacrificed their lives in that war and those who were lucky enough to make it home.
:down: :down:
He didn't denounce the men,he denounced the war! He fought in it and then came back and said it was wrong, BUSH DIDN'T EVEN GO, HE AVOIDED IT, SOMEONE WENT IN HIS PLACE, NOW WHO DISGRACED THE VETS?? Now who's creating new vets?? Yup, dat be BUSH AND HIS POSSY! How long until the death toll in Iraq surpasses 9/11?

[Slice]

At least he did not disgrace all the veterans who fought in Vietnam. Kerry's comments upon returning to the USA were a slap in the face to all that sacrificed their lives in that war and those who were lucky enough to make it home.
:down: :down:
Sometimes the truth hurts. What would you have you said?

[OUTLAWS Tip]

Quote from Dick Cavett show 1971 from Navy veteran John O'Neill--
"This man has attempted the murder of the reputations of two and a half million of us, including the 55,000 dead in Vietnam, and he will never be brought to justice. We can only seek justice and equity from the American people. Every man kills the thing he loves. By each let this be told: The brave man does it with the sword; the coward with the word."

Link to transcribt or watch the show. (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=KerryONeill)

If he doesn't disrespect our veterans, then neither did Jane Fonda going to North Vietnam as our young men died.
:down:

[Slice]

Quote from Dick Cavett show 1971 from Navy veteran John O'Neill--
"This man has attempted the murder of the reputations of two and a half million of us, including the 55,000 dead in Vietnam, and he will never be brought to justice. We can only seek justice and equity from the American people. Every man kills the thing he loves. By each let this be told: The brave man does it with the sword; the coward with the word."

Link to transcribt or watch the show. (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=KerryONeill)

If he doesn't disrespect our veterans, then neither did Jane Fonda going to North Vietnam as our young men died.
:down:
Did he really disrespect them? There were more that came home that were so ****ed up in the head that they wished they were dead. Again the truth hurts. Shall I go in to details and numbers?

[OUTLAWS Tip]

Yup, dat be BUSH AND HIS POSSY! How long until the death toll in Iraq surpasses 9/11?
Hmm, I thought Kerry voted yes for the Iraq war. Then decided to vote against additional funding, or has he changed his mind again.
:hmmm:

[T I K]

Terrorism.....hmm Da*n must have missed something along the way ...............:hmmm: I thought this was the war on Saddam Hussein!!!:confused:

[OUTLAWS Tip]

Did he really disrespect them?

"they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."

Sounds like disrespect to me.

[OUTLAWS Tip]

quote from Kerry: "We will not quickly join those who march on Veteran's Day waving small flags, calling to memory those thousands of lives who died for the "greater glory" of the United States. We will not accept the rhetoric. We will not readily join the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars. We will demand relevancy such as other organizations have recently been able to provide. We will not uphold the traditions which decorously memorialize that which is base and grim." - John F. Kerry, Epilogue to "New Soldier" (MacMillan Publishing, Co, Fall, 1971)

:hmmm: Who is WE. Certainly not I

[Slice]

Hmm, I thought Kerry voted yes for the Iraq war. Then decided to vote against additional funding, or has he changed his mind again.
:hmmm:
Oh so you support the million a day babysitting that is going on now is that right? Our so called leaders said we don't know how long this war will take. Was there ever a war? From what I can remember most of the opposition soldiers stopped fighting and gave up with in a couple weeks time. Of course I could be wrong. LOL So you still think there is a war? This isn't a war, this is suicide for the soldiers that remain. How do you compete with any enemy that will blow himself up just to kill one American?

[Slice]

"they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."

Sounds like disrespect to me.
Sounds like the TRUTH to me....

[OUTLAWS Tip]

I do support the troops over there now. I do pray the New Iraq government can take over control of the country. Building a country and government from scratch isn't going to happen in a year and Bush never said it would. I think postive things Are happening and the majority of our force will be leaving within a year.

Should we have defeated Sadamm and then just left? Even Kerry isn't that foolish.

[detonator]

I trust Bush, he has a proven record on protecting me from the terrorist, but Kerry is an unknown and seems to say what the public opinion poll tells him to say.

Sorry to say, Bush is the only way to go.

[T I K]

I trust Bush, he has a proven record on protecting me from the terrorist, but Kerry is an unknown and seems to say what the public opinion poll tells him to say.

Sorry to say, Bush is the only way to go. N O T !!

[Slice]

I trust Bush, he has a proven record on protecting me from the terrorist, but Kerry is an unknown and seems to say what the public opinion poll tells him to say.

Sorry to say, Bush is the only way to go.LOL, you trust him? Why don't you ask him where the Weapons of Mass Destruction are? He will tell you, "what's the difference" lol ****ing idiots.
God why is everyone so blind? WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pure_Evil]

I trust Bush, he has a proven record on protecting me from the terrorist, but Kerry is an unknown and seems to say what the public opinion poll tells him to say.

Sorry to say, Bush is the only way to go.

That's pathetic! How did he protect those people the morning of 9/11? you forget thousands died under his watch!!! HIS WATCH!!!!! Not Clinton's, Not Bush Sr. Not Carter, or Ford, GWB's watch!! And what did his administration do?? They took and gathered all of Bin Ladden's familly ( past investrs in GWB's business's) and put them on a plane and flew them out of the country!!! Nice way to question the familly of America's # ****ing 1 most wanted!!

He runs his campain on the people who died under his watch! Praised the police and Firefighters for what they did in this countries time of need, yet ignors the fact that the ones who didn't die in the ****ing ruble still don't have a contract!!! Take care of the dead but screw the living?? Screw the survivors?? We can spend millions to help Iraq's, build them firehouse and police staions, yet those who we praise as "American heros" are being ****ing ignored! And the Republicans, let alone most of this country don't give a rats ass! read about it! (http://www.ufanyc.net/news_stories/nytimes/nytimes_08_24_04.html) Here's what the White house said when the FF asked for help " In response, White House spokesman Ken Lisaius said: ``We encourage all parties to come to an agreement on this issue.'' Just great! Liberate Iraq, but screw the working middle class once again! This administration priorities make me ****ing ill!

If Bush gets re-elected, the first thing I'll do is vomit, because I know the middle and lower class are going to be ****ed for 4 more years!!!

[OUTLAWS Tip]

He runs his campain on the people who died under his watch! Praised the police and Firefighters for what they did in this countries time of need, yet ignors the fact that the ones who didn't die in the ****ing ruble still don't have a contract!!! Take care of the dead but screw the living?? Screw the survivors?? We can spend millions to help Iraq's, build them firehouse and police staions, yet those who we praise as "American heros" are being ****ing ignored! And the Republicans, let alone most of this country don't give a rats ass!

:hmmm:
Try again.
New York firefighters to endorse Bush

By MICHAEL WEISSENSTEIN
Associated Press Writer

Link to full story (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--firefighters-bush0901sep01,0,4469350.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire)

[Pure_Evil]

The International Association of Fire Fighters has endorsed Democratic Sen. John Kerry, along with the union representing the city's 2,900 fire lieutenants, captains and other officers. :hmmm:

Too bad the locals are wasting their support, but then again, if the local union doesn't support GWB and he wins, they'll never get a contact...

[Pure_Evil]

Now that I have a bit more time, here ya go! IAFF (http://www.firefightersforkerry.com/campaign/story_72.php)

George Bush failed to direct homeland security funding after 9/11 to high-threat areas, leading to an unexplainable discrepancy in homeland security funding of $5.42 per capita in New York, versus $37.94 for Wyoming in 2003. Bush also opposed funding the Fire Act, and in fact had to be forced by Congress to provide any funding in its first two years, which provides local fire departments with the resources they need. He continues to oppose a program, which would add fire fighters in two-thirds of communities across the country that have an inadequate number of fire fighters. His 2005 budget cuts homeland security funding for first responders by $700 million from current levels, and Bush actively opposes collective bargaining rights for all fire fighters. And when it comes to all workers, our country’s lost over 2 million jobs, including thousands of hi-tech jobs from New York, which have been sent overseas, health care costs are up, and fewer people are covered.

:hmmm: uhh, it's a big union too
What is the IAFF? The International Association of Fire Fighters has more than 2,700 affiliates, representing fire fighters in more than 3,500 communities in the U.S. and Canada. The 263,000 members of the IAFF are the nation’s full-time professional fire fighters and paramedics, who protect the lives and property of 80 percent of the nation’s population. :eek: that's quite a few :rolleyes:

[OUTLAWS 9.99repeating^32]

Well, I don't know where this thread is going; but I will say this about the original subject(about Bush changing his mind). I do not understand why many Americans feel that politicians are not allowed to change their minds. People change their minds every day about issues, and those who don't in the face of evidence are looked down upon(stubborn, ignorant, etc.). There are standards that people follow rigirously; I'm not saying that no one has any true dedications. But what I am saying is that I would not want a President that never changed his mind. I saw an advertisement about Kerry the other day that accused him of first voting for a bill and then deciding agaisnt it. Of course, they didn't give the reason why he voted agaisnt it(before I go on I should mention that I am not for or agaisnt Kerry, but I am agaisnt Bush). Is it not reasonable to assume that Kerry found out something about the bill after he decided to vote for it?

A good example of this would be if someone was a vegetarian all their life and suddenly stopped being one. By just that sentance one could make the assumption that it was done on a whim and that this vegetarian has no standards and does things completely randomly. But let's say for the sake of argument that this vegetarian was a vegetarian because they believed that eating animal products was completely unhealthy. And let's also assume that one day after they became a vegetarian that an irrefutable study came out which showed beyond a shadow of a doubt that eating meat was healthier than a diet with no meat. Would it be so ridiculous to imagine this vegetarian becoming a meat eater after learning about this study?

Who would you want as a president: someone who is still a vegetarian for health reasons after the study or someone who is no longer a vegetarian after the study?

[T I K]

To add to 9999999999's post, what can happen and has happened in alot of these instances, where there is a charge of flip flops of voting records is can be true 2 a degree. And I said "true 2 a degree"!!! So in this presented hypothetical situation.......

Say as for an instance of voting for a bill / authorization (will use troop or war funding in this example) and then that bill / authorization is ammended or included things, or exculed other things than what a Congressman or Senator thought was appropriate. And if that Senator or Congress man disagreed with those changes or the way the bill would be carried out or for what ever reasons, then he might to make a personal statement to his fellow lawmkers or just to personally denounce those changes or the manner in which that bill would be dictated, he then votes no to the bill !! And say that Congressman or Senator voted for that war !! That lawmaker would be in his own rights to cast a no vote if he so saw fit to do so !! While that person or person may have voted for the war he may have had logical reasons to disagree with the way the final bill / authorization was to be carried out!!

And then this makes it very easy for any political party, say Republicans in this instance to say or accuse that person or persons as not supporting the needs of say the troops or war in this instance. And while this may appear to be true on the surface, it can actually be quite untrue in actuality, or be totally the opposite !!

Unfortunately as in politics or in advertising, 99% of the time your only told what ""They want you to hear"" (put a spin on) and not neccessarily the whole truth because that would defeat their main purpose of selling, or as in politics, presenting / proving to others, their one sided and of course biased and singular point of view !! :(

So you really cant take things at face value and you have to think and question !! And be smarter than to take things at just "their face value", becuse you may not be getting "The whole truth and nothing but the truth" or as they say "all the facts"......... untill you do!!

[TheMaster]

Well I've been pretty silent concerning politics on GM for a while now. But I must come out and give you my opinion.

The Bush re-election campaign accuses the Kerry campaign of flip-flopping on major issues, and now the president has come out and done the same thing. On May 1st he declared "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq. Several weeks ago he admitted the war was "miscalculated." And now a few days ago he's saying the War on Terror may not or cannot be won. The very next day he says we will win the war on terror. And I must agree with 9999999999, sometimes changing your mind is a good thing to do. However, not when it comes down to what President Bush has been saying. In case he hasn't noticed, we are at war. And whether it is conventional or not, we have to believe we can win this war. You don't come out and say that this war can't be won, that will discourage the American people, they will begin to ask why we are even fighting anywhere in the first place. John Kerry never changed his mind about the war on terror, one of the most crucial wars of our time. He has always maintained the same idea, that we can, we must, and we will win this war.

[OUTLAWS Tip]

John Kerry never changed his mind about the war on terror, one of the most crucial wars of our time.

Except that he voted for the Iraq war and then voted against giving our troups the equipment they needed. I sure wouldn't have wanted to have him in charge when we went to Afganistan. We would probably still be waiting for UN approval and our country would probably been hit again.

[TheMaster]

That is not what I meant Tip. What I meant is that Kerry did not say we can't win this war on terror.

[Snip3r]

I think my avatar describes Bush's war plan quite well.

[EdoG]

4 More Years!!!!
4 More Years!!!!
4 More Years!!!!
4 More Years!!!!
4 More Years!!!!
4 More Years!!!!
4 More Years!!!!
4 More Years!!!!
4 More Years!!!!
4 More Years!!!!

[EXEcution]

I think my avatar describes Bush's war plan quite well.
i can't read :confused:

[TheMaster]

Yeah Sniper, I need a microscope to read it. What does it say?

[Snip3r]

"It'll be like PfroooOom!!! Kapowww!! KaBoOOoMm!!!! BooM!! booM!! Aaarrrrrrrrrggghh You got me!!"

and he's holding GI Joe action figures lol

[TheMaster]

Hahahahaha :rofl: