The Great Debate

[Slice]

I know I said I wouldn't participate in any more political threads here but I lied. Thank God Kerry won the debate. :)

[BobtheCkroach]

I'm not sure he necessarily won, but he did a good job, yes, both of them did, IMO. Kerry had a problem or two that Bush pointed out, and the opposite was true as well. It was a very good debate, I feel, and both men acted like men - there wasn't much of the underhandedness. What a crap question they were thrown, though: "What about Senator Kerry's character do you feel keeps him from being a good candidate?" (or something to that effect). There's no good way to answer that. If you attack him, that's just cheap, and if you don't, you dodge the question.

[OUTLAWS Tip]

Nope, he flip-flopped again.
:p:

[Slice]

I'm not sure he necessarily won, but he did a good job, yes, both of them did, IMO. Kerry had a problem or two that Bush pointed out, and the opposite was true as well. It was a very good debate, I feel, and both men acted like men - there wasn't much of the underhandedness. What a crap question they were thrown, though: "What about Senator Kerry's character do you feel keeps him from being a good candidate?" (or something to that effect). There's no good way to answer that. If you attack him, that's just cheap, and if you don't, you dodge the question.
The major national poles would disagree with you. ;)

[BobtheCkroach]

The major national poles would disagree with you. ;)

On which aspect of my statement?

[Slice]

On which aspect of my statement?
That Kerry won the debate.

[BobtheCkroach]

There's already a poll out for that?!

[Slice]

There's already a poll out for that?!
Lol, like hundreds are all ready in.

[ME BIGGD01]

how do you figure he won? i find it funny that you would think he won because you hate bush.

it's easy for somone to just put down someone elses work when the othe person has done nothing. it's much easier to say bush did it wrong when kerry has done nothing. do you honestly think that kerry has a plan that would get our soldiers back from iraq in 6 months? there is one thing to be wishfull but i try to be moe realistic. these type of wars are always time consuming. no matter how anyones plan to fight this war, the same result would show. m plan is the only way to win the war with out losing any soldiers but you people feel i am just some lunitic. i found it stupid that kerry would say we have done nothing regarding iran and nrth korea. what was bush supposed to speak about what is going on to the public? that's like giving the other team your playbook. i think bush's record shows, he will fight if need be. i think kerry has shown he would sell out our country and allow the european countries decide what we should do. i think bush had more solid hits then kerry had on bush. sure kerry said a million times that bush's acts were wrong but what do you expect him to say? did you expect kerry to say bush was doing a good job, but elect me. kerry is doing nothing but what he was told to say to win votes. bush is doing what he said he is going to do regardless of what the other countries think. i would rather a president take concern over our country rather allowing others choose/judge for us. again i tend to be realistic, and if you think the europeans who were more interested in the oil for food scandal rather than the safety of the world should get us to kiss there ass, i say screw that. they should be kissing our ass everyday that they are alive. but realty shows, they think different. we should of let hitler continue if we knew this is what is was going to be. what would be the difference?

i think kerry did better than many anticipated. i would not say he won but did pretty good. i think people need to be realistic and look through the bs. some i guess can't. if you people feel kerry is the better president that's great and your right. but if anyone feels that they want to debate it, atleast make a solid point without bs what you like about him and what you think he intends to do that would be better than bush. i do not think i heard 1 thing regarding his plan that will work other than kiss ass to get allies involved. sorry, as an american, we kick not kiss ass!:thumbs:

I cant wait until election time:D I will be laughing at you kerry supporters:thumbs:

i just hope you democrats don't cry again and make up some excuse again saying it was rigged. haha;) .

oh, kerry supporters---4 more years (repeat out loud 100x):thumbs:

[ME BIGGD01]

The major national poles would disagree with you. ;)
like who? cbs?

[ME BIGGD01]

oh yeah, kerry's scond wife is a skank and not even american. they love europe, not america:down:

[ME BIGGD01]

The major national poles would disagree with you. ;)
i am sorry, i misunderstood. you said poles:D

[BobtheCkroach]

I was just thinkin' to myself "self, where's BIGG? You know what you believe, but you suck at saying it...BIGG would be good right about now." and Voila!

I did find it funny (where's a transcript of the debate when you need it), that Kerry said something about how America needs to be the leader, America needs to set the example (which I completely agree with), but said more than once that we need to submit to the UN more...hmmm...

[Slice]

how do you figure he won? i find it funny that you would think he won because you hate bush.

it's easy for somone to just put down someone elses work when the othe person has done nothing. it's much easier to say bush did it wrong when kerry has done nothing. do you honestly think that kerry has a plan that would get our soldiers back from iraq in 6 months? there is one thing to be wishfull but i try to be moe realistic. these type of wars are always time consuming. no matter how anyones plan to fight this war, the same result would show. m plan is the only way to win the war with out losing any soldiers but you people feel i am just some lunitic. i found it stupid that kerry would say we have done nothing regarding iran and nrth korea. what was bush supposed to speak about what is going on to the public? that's like giving the other team your playbook. i think bush's record shows, he will fight if need be. i think kerry has shown he would sell out our country and allow the european countries decide what we should do. i think bush had more solid hits then kerry had on bush. sure kerry said a million times that bush's acts were wrong but what do you expect him to say? did you expect kerry to say bush was doing a good job, but elect me. kerry is doing nothing but what he was told to say to win votes. bush is doing what he said he is going to do regardless of what the other countries think. i would rather a president take concern over our country rather allowing others choose/judge for us. again i tend to be realistic, and if you think the europeans who were more interested in the oil for food scandal rather than the safety of the world should get us to kiss there ass, i say screw that. they should be kissing our ass everyday that they are alive. but realty shows, they think different. we should of let hitler continue if we knew this is what is was going to be. what would be the difference?

i think kerry did better than many anticipated. i would not say he won but did pretty good. i think people need to be realistic and look through the bs. some i guess can't. if you people feel kerry is the better president that's great and your right. but if anyone feels that they want to debate it, atleast make a solid point without bs what you like about him and what you think he intends to do that would be better than bush. i do not think i heard 1 thing regarding his plan that will work other than kiss ass to get allies involved. sorry, as an american, we kick not kiss ass!:thumbs:

I cant wait until election time:D I will be laughing at you kerry supporters:thumbs:

i just hope you democrats don't cry again and make up some excuse again saying it was rigged. haha;) .

oh, kerry supporters---4 more years (repeat out loud 100x):thumbs:
Bigg I am not even going to read that above paragraph so sorry you wasted your time writing it. I said he won by the major AMERICAN current poles.

[ME BIGGD01]

I was just thinkin' to myself "self, where's BIGG? You know what you believe, but you suck at saying it...BIGG would be good right about now." and Voila!

I did find it funny (where's a transcript of the debate when you need it), that Kerry said something about how America needs to be the leader, America needs to set the example (which I completely agree with), but said more than once that we need to submit to the UN more...hmmm...
the un is complete bs. i wish we would already leave it. they are corrupt. if anyone thinks they are not, i will give many examples. for example, how can you expect germany, russia, france to be allies (kerry said we owe them) when after 17 sanctions, they were dealing under the table with saddam. again oil for food????? i use that one becuase we are in iraq right now. why would we want to have them be on our side when truthfully they never were. why is it people miss this and still feel we should of had them with us. i sometimes feel some of you have never been out much in the real world. as far as deaths go... what do you people think happends in war. as soon as reality sinks in to some, they will understand. i was for nuking them in the first place but people think that's to mean. i always said, 1 american is worth the lives of a full country. bush is correct that we will choose what we are going to do, not some corrupt useless group (yes i changed some of the words).

[ME BIGGD01]

Bigg I am not even going to read that above paragraph so sorry you wasted your time writing it. I said he won by the major AMERICAN current poles.
c'mon--just read it:D i know you will:thumbs:

[Slice]

oh yeah, kerry's scond wife is a skank and not even american. they love europe, not america:down:
That is a pretty disgraceful statement and also a racist one. You are acting like Bush did during the debate, are you flaring your nostrals right now and steam blowing out of your ears?

[CaptainKeyes]

Thank God Kerry won the debate. :)

your kidding me right? its a joke?
:)

[SALvation]

I hope the next two debates start talking about the issues at home. Honestly, I'm sick of hearing about Iraq. I think most people start to tune out when it comes up.

[SALvation]

BTW, yes the very early polls by ABC and CBS showed Kerry won.

[CaptainKeyes]

Teresa Hienz is disgraceful, saying things like "after all imay prefer seeing other guys".. and that she thinks she is sexy... That isnt very lady like, especially not First lady like.

[MR. SLiK]

oh yeah, kerry's scond wife is a skank and not even american. they love europe, not america:down:

dude your computer parts arent made in america, OMG. Youre unamerican!

[CaptainKeyes]

When kerry was asked what he would do differently from our current president, he went on about how bush was doing everything wrong... but never divuldged any information on his winning plan

because realistaclly he would be doing everything bush has been doing. Oh he did say he would hold A summit... but then again our president said he had been planning three.

[BobtheCkroach]

I hope the next two debates start talking about the issues at home. Honestly, I'm sick of hearing about Iraq. I think most people start to tune out when it comes up.

I agree Sal, completely. Although Iraq is definitely an important issue - perhaps the single most important issue - there are still a ton of other things that are being left oncovered. Personally, it doesn't matter a whole lot, my mind is made up, but I would still like to hear some clashing on a topic that focuses on Domestic issues (the moderator of the Debate said that the last Debate would be about domestics, so here's hoping <crosses fingers>).

[ME BIGGD01]

When kerry was asked what he would do differently from our current president, he went on about how bush was doing everything wrong... but never divuldged any information on his winning plan

because realistaclly he would be doing everything bush has been doing. Oh he did say he would hold A summit... but then again our president said he had been planning three.
that's my point

[ME BIGGD01]

I hope the next two debates start talking about the issues at home. Honestly, I'm sick of hearing about Iraq. I think most people start to tune out when it comes up.
i thought each debate had it's topic:o

[ME BIGGD01]

dude your computer parts arent made in america, OMG. Youre unamerican!

that doesnt make sense:confused:

[ME BIGGD01]

That is a pretty disgraceful statement and also a racist one. You are acting like Bush did during the debate, are you flaring your nostrals right now and steam blowing out of your ears?

i do not see where i am racist. i just think we should have an true americans in the white house:thumbs:. i hope my skank comment was atleast clear:p: .

[Slice]

When kerry was asked what he would do differently from our current president, he went on about how bush was doing everything wrong... but never divuldged any information on his winning plan

because realistaclly he would be doing everything bush has been doing. Oh he did say he would hold A summit... but then again our president said he had been planning three.
Why do you think he would be doing everything Bush has been doing? Kerry would have no reason to go in to Iraq. Bush claims "hey he saw the same intellegence" that may be so, but he took us to war based upon it. Oh and by the way Fahrenheit 9/11 is out on DVD Oct 5th. :D

[Slice]

oh yeah, kerry's scond wife is a skank and not even american. they love europe, not america:down:
If you can't see why this is a racist comment then you are blind. You state that she is a skank and not even American. So Americans are better than everyone else in the whole world is that it? When you state the word "even" didn't you understand that the word means equal in the sentence you used it in? Therefore you are basically saying that there are no equals in the world and we are the best. I think the Europeans will be quite offended on this site to hear such trash.

[ME BIGGD01]

slice, kerry voted for the war. while you are lost in micheal moores world, you fail to see this. i do not understand your point and hope you help me with that. kerrys plans are as dumb as he is. just like his plan for north korea. he seems to be the kind of person that puts his finger in the wall socket more than once. again bush will be prepared for north korea/iran. they are carefully watched. lets not forget that kerry came back from a 3-5 month tour and disgraced the country and commited war crimes. what he did made other captured americans get tortured. the guy is a piece of crap and will never be president of america. and once this election is over, you can expect bush to finally be able to continue what we need to do--kill:thumbs:

[BobtheCkroach]

I don't think we're better than other people, by any means, our nation has flaws, as does there, etc, etc, i'm not better than anyone else, but BIGG's statement has some validity. Is it racism that the President of the United States must be a natural born citizen? No. It's in the freakin' constitution. There's a reason for it. We're America. We're going to be run by an American, of course. And Lord knows that your wife is a huge part of your decision making process, in a fair marriage, so of course the First Lady will have an effect on how the Presidency is run (Hillary Rodham Clinton...), so why shouldn't we want to keep the First Lady position American, too? I have nothing against other nations, and people from those nations, but this is our country and it is meant to be led by our people. I'm sure Europe feels the same about there elected officials (and their wives).

[SASQUATCH]

If you remember Kerry said and he made it clear that he would begin sending our guys back home not get them back within 6 months. The issues in that subject was about training the Iraq’s people so that they can run the country and manage with the intention of what we have in the USA not having it totalitarian.

The debate I must say Kerry did look good but again it is easy to say then in doing it which Bush mention and Bush repeated that you can't pull away from a plan because it shows no consistency. In other words he must stay with the plan that his administration has started and finish the job.

Bush, what has been started must finish and it will not take one term to do it and as for Kerry he would have to device a plan from start and we will never get anything done.

As for now I say let bush finish what he started and hope that things will turn for the best. This process takes time and now that we are in deep there is no turning back but complete what’s been started and hope that more of our allies or other countries join in.

I feel there is no one qualified to make it right because of what’s been happening and most of all Middle East is one hell of a place that will take a long time for it to settle down and provide better peace but it will never be perfect. History speaks for itself especially the history of the Middle East.

What we need to do is find better resource then to rely on Oil.

Like it or not what ever happen in this world it will effect us no matter what because it is a place we live and unity is essential to provide a future for our next generation.

[ME BIGGD01]

If you can't see why this is a racist comment then you are blind. You state that she is a skank and not even American. So Americans are better than everyone else in the whole world is that it? When you state the word "even" didn't you understand that the word means equal in the sentence you used it in? Therefore you are basically saying that there are no equals in the world and we are the best. I think the Europeans will be quite offended on this site to hear such trash.
1st question--yes

even has more than one meaning:cool:

offensive toward european citizens--no, you dont see an american in there running the country do ya? would you say the country is racists because of the laws of presidency of the united states?

[ME BIGGD01]

I don't think we're better than other people, by any means, our nation has flaws, as does there, etc, etc, i'm not better than anyone else, but BIGG's statement has some validity. Is it racism that the President of the United States must be a natural born citizen? No. It's in the freakin' constitution. There's a reason for it. We're America. We're going to be run by an American, of course. And Lord knows that your wife is a huge part of your decision making process, in a fair marriage, so of course the First Lady will have an effect on how the Presidency is run (Hillary Rodham Clinton...), so why shouldn't we want to keep the First Lady position American, too? I have nothing against other nations, and people from those nations, but this is our country and it is meant to be led by our people. I'm sure Europe feels the same about there elected officials (and their wives).
you must of typed that while i was in the middle of my last post. funny you knew exactly my point. although i don't know you, i like you already:thumbs:

[Slice]

1st question--yes

even has more than one meaning:cool:

offensive toward european citizens--no, you dont see an american in there running the country do ya? would you say the country is racists because of the laws of presidency of the united states?
Um are you a tart? His wife is European decent so what, so is your ass. Have a look. http://www.hfp.heinz.org/aboutus/heinzhistory.html

[ME BIGGD01]

If you remember Kerry said and he made it clear that he would begin sending our guys back home not get them back within 6 months. The issues in that subject was about training the Iraq’s people so that they can run the country and manage with the intention of what we have in the USA not having it totalitarian.

The debate I must say Kerry did look good but again it is easy to say then in doing it which Bush mention and Bush repeated that you can't pull away from a plan because it shows no consistency. In other words he must stay with the plan that his administration has started and finish the job.

Bush, what has been started must finish and it will not take one term to do it and as for Kerry he would have to device a plan from start and we will never get anything done.

As for now I say let bush finish what he started and hope that things will turn for the best. This process takes time and now that we are in deep there is no turning back but complete what’s been started and hope that more of our allies or other countries join in.

I feel there is no one qualified to make it right because of what’s been happening and most of all Middle East is one hell of a place that will take a long time for it to settle down and provide better peace but it will never be perfect. History speaks for itself especially the history of the Middle East.

What we need to do is find better resource then to rely on Oil.





Like it or not what ever happen in this world it will effect us no matter what because it is a place we live and unity is essential to provide a future for our next generation.

as far as the debate goes, kerry is a professional debatger who has debated since puberty. he can creat his image for people to like him (except me). it's like actors and showbiz. sure those telephone commercials make me sad but they are still commercials:rolleyes:

[ME BIGGD01]

lets get a teamspeak debate going. i would love to do this real time instead of waiting for the other to respond. plus i hate typing on this laptop.

[Slice]

As for now I say let bush finish what he started and hope that things will turn for the best. This process takes time and now that we are in deep there is no turning back but complete what’s been started and hope that more of our allies or other countries join in.

This is where America needs to wake up. Let's finish this now. Why is this so hard to understand? The conditions in Iraq continue to get worse and this isn't an opinion it is fact. You all can see it on your local news at night. It is sad that people think that Bush should just finish what he has started. When an employee ****s up at work so badly that it makes your company look like a disgrace do you just say oh let me finish what he started? No, you take control as fast as possible with a resolution to the problem. Remember, he is an employee for the people.

[BobtheCkroach]

you must of typed that while i was in the middle of my last post. funny you knew exactly my point. although i don't know you, i like you already:thumbs:

ROFL!! I like you too, BIGG! lol

Funny...I remember the first political debate I got into here...and you and I were like dead opposite...I think...hmmm...anyways, we definitely think alike, at least tonight!

[solid snake295]

you can expect bush to finally be able to continue what we need to do--kill:thumbs:
:confused: :down:

[SASQUATCH]

as far as the debate goes, kerry is a professional debatger who has debated since puberty. he can creat his image for people to like him (except me). it's like actors and showbiz. sure those telephone commercials make me sad but they are still commercials:rolleyes:

You know what I mean that subject doesn't matter to me who won the debate because to me what was said that has meaning and bull**** walks alone and so what I see or hear is what's important and that is a better place for us or moving forward to peace.

Here is something that will light things up. There will not be peace for a long ****ing time in the Middle East maybe for another 100 years or more before we will see that but at least we are trying to make it happen. Educating people helps to have it happen not religion. Ego gets in the way and peace is disrupted.

[Slice]

I don't think we're better than other people, by any means, our nation has flaws, as does there, etc, etc, i'm not better than anyone else, but BIGG's statement has some validity. Is it racism that the President of the United States must be a natural born citizen? No. It's in the freakin' constitution. There's a reason for it. We're America. We're going to be run by an American, of course. And Lord knows that your wife is a huge part of your decision making process, in a fair marriage, so of course the First Lady will have an effect on how the Presidency is run (Hillary Rodham Clinton...), so why shouldn't we want to keep the First Lady position American, too? I have nothing against other nations, and people from those nations, but this is our country and it is meant to be led by our people. I'm sure Europe feels the same about there elected officials (and their wives).
Well then, go tell Arnold to get out of Cali then, in which he won by majority vote. What you don't like your republican choice there????? huh huh huh?

[SASQUATCH]

This is where America needs to wake up. Let's finish this now. Why is this so hard to understand? The conditions in Iraq continue to get worse and this isn't an opinion it is fact. You all can see it on your local news at night. It is sad that people think that Bush should just finish what he has started. When an employee ****s up at work so badly that it makes your company look like a disgrace do you just say oh let me finish what he started? No, you take control as fast as possible with a resolution to the problem. Remember, he is an employee for the people.

First of all if I would think that way I would be know as a cool blooded SOB.

Seconfd that is not what I mean ok.

We have to finish by providing the training for the Iraq's which will help if we don't try then we have no business being there, so while we are there and in the middle of everything it would be a bad idea to just pickup and leave. We started this and we have to fix it and finsih it in the right way with peace.

Slice I have no idea what the hell you was thinking but I believe you know better that if we would leave now let's say it will not make us look good at all.

It would be like doing a job at the company and then not completing the work and just pickup and leave to watch cartoons.

[ME BIGGD01]

This is where America needs to wake up. Let's finish this now. Why is this so hard to understand? The conditions in Iraq continue to get worse and this isn't an opinion it is fact. You all can see it on your local news at night. It is sad that people think that Bush should just finish what he has started. When an employee ****s up at work so badly that it makes your company look like a disgrace do you just say oh let me finish what he started? No, you take control as fast as possible with a resolution to the problem. Remember, he is an employee for the people.

slice this is war not a day at the job. what makes you think there is nothing positive happening in iraq? look at the newspaper. everything is negative because people don't like to hear positives. most of the media is bias (cbs anyone). it has been said, that these animals will try harder and harder because of the success in iraq. you do not know the facts but because you spend 9 bucks on moores bullship:cool: movie, you believed everything you saw. that's fine but atleast be realistic and don't think people don't get killed in war or war takes less then 1 year. we are also not just fighting saddams loyalist. we are fighting all those countries in which they all harbor and support terrorists. that is a fact and you can research it yourself. no matter where america is in the mid east, they will try to kill us. that's why we are there killing them millions to our thousands.

the closing for bush should of been

Who do you think the terrorist want to be president of the United States?

thats what i would of said:thumbs:

[BobtheCkroach]

Well then, go tell Arnold to get out of Cali then, in which he won by majority vote. What you don't like your republican choice there????? huh huh huh?

It's not my state, so I don't really have to deal with it. And yes, I would rather see an american republican in office.

[ME BIGGD01]

lol, i knew you were going to use that slice. i really knew you would say that:D .


first he is not running the country. 2nd--he's the terminator:thumbs: --i would of voted for him if he was in ny.

[SASQUATCH]

We need smarter people not arnold sorry to say but he should go back to making movies. I would hate for him to get total recall when making a important decision LOL

[BobtheCkroach]

lol, i knew you were going to use that slice. i really knew you would say that:D .


first he is not running the country. 2nd--he's the terminator:thumbs: --i would of voted for him if he was in ny.

I didn't know it was coming, but I should have. Made me look like an idiot, b/c i couldn't really find a good way to counter. Props to you, Slice.

[ME BIGGD01]

well people, i need to try to get some sleep. only a few of us managed to make this thread over 5 pages long:D. maybe we need a hobby:) .

[Slice]

First of all if I would think that way I would be know as a cool blooded SOB.

Seconfd that is not what I mean ok.

We have to finish by providing the training for the Iraq's which will help if we don't try then we have no business being there, so while we are there and in the middle of everything it would be a bad idea to just pickup and leave. We started this and we have to fix it and finsih it in the right way with peace.

Slice I have no idea what the hell you was thinking but I believe you know better that if we would leave now let's say it will not make us look good at all.

It would be like doing a job at the company and then not completing the work and just pickup and leave to watch cartoons.I didn't say leave now. I said finish the job. Just change the boss. The job isn't getting done. When the job doesn't get done shi t has to change. As far as us looking good we look like a pile of crap to the rest of the world right now. So change would be a good thing since confidence has been lost already accross the globe. If you think that I am a cold blooded anything you are far from correct. I have never had an employee quit on me in the last 10 years of business and have only had to fire a couple (for reasons that have nothing to do with politics at all) Also I saw the second post after this one and I have not even seen Fahrenheit 9/11 yet so go blow your smoke up someone elses ass.

[Slice]

lol, i knew you were going to use that slice. i really knew you would say that:D .


first he is not running the country. 2nd--he's the terminator:thumbs: --i would of voted for him if he was in ny.
I will just start with a first, since SHE ISN'T RUNNING THE COUNTRY.

[CaptainKeyes]

4 Soldiers who were stationed in Iraq for 9 months, 6 months of which they lived out of Saddam's palace.. visited our professors class just last Tuesday.

They took Questions from the students...
To some peoples great dismay, many things were set straight by these young soldiers. They clued many people in on exactly who it is we are fighting now in Iraq. Not Iraqi citizens or Saddam loyalists, but terrorists 'the media call them militants' from Syria, Iran, Kuwait, Borujerd, Dayr'Az Zawr, Ar'ar ... list goes on.

They also made a point that not one innocent woman or child had died until the reconstruction effort was well underway, long after we had caught Saddam. They made the point that the republican guard and Saddam loyalists honored, loved and cherished their family above all and would simply not fight in populated neighborhoods where family would be in harms way, unlike the pathetic scum we are having problems with now.

They said the President AND Senator Kerry And ALL of the other partisan politicians who gave the president the authority and authorization (who conveniently say they were mislead by our president now) to go in Iraq did it based on something they saw.... not on what the president said but intelligence material seen.

We actually had undecided people decide they would vote Bush based on what these fine men had to say. So needless to say Tuesday I was filled with a tremendous amount of hope. A very good day indeed. :thumbs:

[Slice]

4 Soldiers who were stationed in Iraq for 9 months, 6 months of which they lived out of Saddam's palace.. visited our professors class just last Tuesday.

They took Questions from the students...
To some peoples great dismay, many things were set straight by these young soldiers. They clued many people in on exactly who it is we are fighting now in Iraq. Not Iraqi citizens or Saddam loyalists, but terrorists 'the media call them militants' from Syria, Iran, Kuwait, Borujerd, Dayr'Az Zawr, Ar'ar ... list goes on.

They also made a point that not one innocent woman or child had died until the reconstruction effort was well underway, long after we had caught Saddam. They made the point that the republican guard and Saddam loyalists honored, loved and cherished their family above all and would simply not fight in populated neighborhoods where family would be in harms way, unlike the pathetic scum we are having problems with now.

They said the President AND Senator Kerry And ALL of the other partisan politicians who gave the president the authority and authorization (who conveniently say they were mislead by our president now) to go in Iraq did it based on something they saw.... not on what the president said but intelligence material seen.

We actually had undecided people decide they would vote Bush based on what these fine men had to say. So needless to say Tuesday I was filled with a tremendous amount of hope. A very good day indeed. :thumbs:
Oh so did anyone happen to ask if they thought things were going right over there and they had everything under control? How about all the kids that were killed today?

[CaptainKeyes]

well if you bothered to read you would realize what i said already covers your question

let me rephrase it
****s hitting the fan NOW because terrorists are trying to disrupt the reconstruction effort. Was it U.S. troops that bombed the sewage treatmant plant, nope... it was terrorists. Terrorists who killed the 35 children with those car bombs. Terrorists who tryed to disrupt the opening of a sewage treatmant plant. Iraqi civilians had nothing to do with killing their own people and blowing up their own treatmant plant. This is not as black and white as you would like to believe apparantly. And that is exactly the point they achieved :)

you dig?

[Slice]

well if you bothered to read you would realize what i said already covers your question

let me rephrase it
****s hitting the fan NOW because terrorists are trying to disrupt the reconstruction effort. Was it U.S. troops that bombed the sewage treatmant plant, nope... it was terrorists. Terrorists who killed the 35 children with those car bombs. Terrorists who tryed to disrupt the opening of a sewage treatmant plant. Iraqi civilians had nothing to do with killing their own people and blowing up their own treatmant plant. This is not as black and white as you would like to believe apparantly. And that is exactly the point they achieved :)

you dig?
No I don't dig, these are not the people we were after in the first place. You dig?

[CaptainKeyes]

No I don't dig, these are not the people we were after in the first place. You dig?

Excuse me? We aren't?
We are not fighting a war against terror?
are you sure?
You mean we are selectively fighting terrorists then!
Ha!
laughable..

So the only terrorists we should worry about are Al-qaeda (which yes is deeply involved in the insurgency in Iraq)
We shouldn't worry about all the terrorists cells but simply the select few!
These terrorists over here not those terrorists over there!!!!
these are the bad terrorists not those terrorists!!!
Ahh man i gotta sleep on this, its a great revelation! :rolleyes:
night fellas :D

[Pure_Evil]

First off, Kerry has stated in the past that it will take 4 years to get out of Iraq, with his plan :eek: What's worse is Colin Powell said there's no way you can be out in 4 years, that's too optimistic :eek: :bawling:

And to say GWB won is... uhhhh... welll uhhh... what I mean is uhhhh :rolleyes: spit it the **** out if you want to be President!

If you look back at the debates from 4 years ago, Bush was sharper, and put his sentences together well, last night, he looked fried, I felt bad for him.

[Pure_Evil]

A vote for Bush, is a vote for more dead Americans :down:

American Military Casualties in Iraq

List last updated 09/30/04 1:08 pm EDT

American Deaths *
Since war began (3/19/03): 1054

Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03)*915

Since Capture of Saddam (12/13/03): 594

Since Handover (6/29/04): 196

American Wounded *7384

And as far as the next debate discussing problems on American soil, I say go for it! Since GWB abondoned us a long time ago :down:

[SASQUATCH]

go blow your smoke up someone elses ass.

LMAO

The news at home especially the local news is crap not what is being done at Iraq and let me remind you Slice that I said to fix the problem now that we are there ok.

I am glad to hear of your business and not that I care about your history but the fact is no one is qualified to do the job now because we are in so deep and right now the best thing to do is fix it and get the hell out of there and bring our soldiers back home. So with that and what I been trying to say without having someone altering in a wrong way to enlighten there ego, let’s fix it and get the Iraq people trained so that we will not have to have so many armed forces there and eventually begin to pull out gradually.

Bush as much as I hate to have him around, I feel he is responsible to fix it not Kerry because his plans are not offical and it will take time to begin that process and more time will delay for our arm forces to begin coming home gradually.

[He Is Legend]

Reasons

- I believe that abortion is infanticide and so does GWB

- I believe in a strong national defense and so does GWB

- I believe that the money I earn by working is mine and not the governments and if the government takes my money and spends it on something that is important to the country then they are responsible and accountable for this money. So does GWB.

- I believe that the government should NOT be in the business of providing welfare to people. If a person is capable of working and doesn't it's called being LAZY.

- I believe in the sanctity of marriage between ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN. Not a man and a man, or a woman and a woman or a goat and a man or any other combination one cares to think of. So does GWB.

- I believe in right and wrong. I believe that one can quantify what is right and what is wrong and as a society we create things called LAWS that tell us what is right and what is not. I do NOT believe that right and wrong are in the "eye of the beholder". So does GWB.

- I believe that we are one nation under GOD and no amount of legal maneuvering by the ACLU will remove GOD from anything. So does GWB.

I guess this is the proverbial gauntlet

[SASQUATCH]

A vote for Bush, is a vote for more dead Americans :down:

American Military Casualties in Iraq

List last updated 09/30/04 1:08 pm EDT

American Deaths *
Since war began (3/19/03): 1054

Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03)*915

Since Capture of Saddam (12/13/03): 594

Since Handover (6/29/04): 196

American Wounded *7384

And as far as the next debate discussing problems on American soil, I say go for it! Since GWB abondoned us a long time ago :down:

I look it at this way no more Iraq people dieing by the thousand and let me remind you that over a million Iraq people died in the hand of Saddam.

Since the beginning we put ourselves in this spot because we are a world power and now we play a roll as a police and guess what, you can’t change it because it started a long time ago since World War II when we decided to fill in the shoes as a world power. What I hate to hear is when someone tells me that we have no business being there when in fact we as a great nation and especially as a world power, we are responsible and so we lead the way. Again a reminder during World War 1 and 2 if we didn’t get involve we would be speaking in a different language. If we didn’t go in the war of Korea, South Korea wouldn’t exist and we would be having more problems with North Korea. Vietnam we lost but keep it in mind we can’t win all the time but learn from our mistakes.

Being that we stand out as a number 1# nation comes with responsibility. Just like a baseball hero or actor or anyone who plays a roll that touches people in general, must carry the responsibility and that can’t be changed because it is the way it started from the beginning and it is now to stay.

[JIMINATOR]

fix the problem now that we are there

what exactly are we fixing? Are we fixing the fact that we are an invading force and everyone down there hates us and blames us for all of their problems? are we fixing the the fact that terrorists are more easily able to recruit people to fight off the foreign invaders? are we fixing the fact that many muslums consider what we are doing to be an attack on islam? sorry, history is too deep and we are not changing anything.

[DiTomasso]

oh yeah, kerry's scond wife is a skank and not even american. they love europe, not america:down:
With this sentence you really suck.

Now this is real debating about issues.

[BobtheCkroach]

Reasons

- I believe that abortion is infanticide and so does GWB

- I believe in a strong national defense and so does GWB

- I believe that the money I earn by working is mine and not the governments and if the government takes my money and spends it on something that is important to the country then they are responsible and accountable for this money. So does GWB.

- I believe that the government should NOT be in the business of providing welfare to people. If a person is capable of working and doesn't it's called being LAZY.

- I believe in the sanctity of marriage between ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN. Not a man and a man, or a woman and a woman or a goat and a man or any other combination one cares to think of. So does GWB.

- I believe in right and wrong. I believe that one can quantify what is right and what is wrong and as a society we create things called LAWS that tell us what is right and what is not. I do NOT believe that right and wrong are in the "eye of the beholder". So does GWB.

- I believe that we are one nation under GOD and no amount of legal maneuvering by the ACLU will remove GOD from anything. So does GWB.

I guess this is the proverbial gauntlet

Freakin' RIGHT ON, Chaotic!

[Die Hard]

they love europe, not america:down:
Obviously very informed people :rolleyes:

[JIMINATOR]

- I believe that abortion is infanticide and so does GWB
fine words until the baby is out of the womb, then let the mother and child both suffer and drag down society with another unwanted child and disfunctional family. abortion does not fix anything, but it also doesn't make everything worse for all involved. As for the baby, maybe he will have a better time in the next life. of course it helps if your religious belief is not so inflexible that you only believe in an all or nothing world...


- I believe in a strong national defense and so does GWB
defense against what? terrorism for which we blame (the wrong) various third world countries? I see how effective our military is for these problems


- I believe that the money I earn by working is mine and not the governments and if the government takes my money and spends it on something that is important to the country then they are responsible and accountable for this money. So does GWB.important to the country like all that military sh1t that doesn't work, that has rigged tests and so forth? yes, I am very impressed with the way GWB is spending my money. government spending is fine and dandy for all of you guys as long as it involves the ability to kill people (after the womb of course)...


- I believe in the sanctity of marriage between ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN. Not a man and a man, or a woman and a woman or a goat and a man or any other combination one cares to think of. So does GWB.
if a man is born desiring other men wtf do you care if they get married or not? many companies already provide domestic benefits. if you have two taxpayers that want to enter into a union, why should they not be provided with the same legal rights and protections as other taxpayers?


- I believe in right and wrong. I believe that one can quantify what is right and what is wrong and as a society we create things called LAWS that tell us what is right and what is not. I do NOT believe that right and wrong are in the "eye of the beholder". So does GWB.
this is total bs crap, meaning that you have certain fixed definitions of right and wrong and anyone that disagrees is wrong because your stance is *moral*. what a total load.


- I believe that we are one nation under GOD and no amount of legal maneuvering by the ACLU will remove GOD from anything. So does GWB.The term is one nation under god. it does not define what god is. it does not state a christian god or jehova. if you want a statue of the 10 commandments, buy one and install it in front of your house. I don't want to see that sh1t when i go to renew my license...

please understand that these are just my viewpoints and opinions, not attacks on you or your stance. i don't expect to change anything with the posts, but maybe you will find it to be interesting. or maybe not.

[Pure_Evil]

I look it at this way no more Iraq people dieing by the thousand and let me remind you that over a million Iraq people died in the hand of Saddam.

Since the beginning we put ourselves in this spot because we are a world power and now we play a roll as a police and guess what, you can’t change it because it started a long time ago since World War II when we decided to fill in the shoes as a world power. What I hate to hear is when someone tells me that we have no business being there when in fact we as a great nation and especially as a world power, we are responsible and so we lead the way. Again a reminder during World War 1 and 2 if we didn’t get involve we would be speaking in a different language. If we didn’t go in the war of Korea, South Korea wouldn’t exist and we would be having more problems with North Korea. Vietnam we lost but keep it in mind we can’t win all the time but learn from our mistakes.

Being that we stand out as a number 1# nation comes with responsibility. Just like a baseball hero or actor or anyone who plays a roll that touches people in general, must carry the responsibility and that can’t be changed because it is the way it started from the beginning and it is now to stay.

well, the body count since we started this war . Iraqi body count between 12976 to 15003, granted, not quite up to saddam's marks yet, but still quite impressive :down:

And sorry, but all those killed by saddam, not our problem, Iraqi's have brains, they can stand up on their own. This war is BS.

Keep in mind, the WORLD didn't want us to invade Iraq, so comparing it to the world wars isn't reasonable. If we're there because of what Saddam did to his people, then why didn't we go to Darfur?? How come we don't go after the Checkens after they slaughtered those children??? Typical political hypocracy to hide GREED!

[Pure_Evil]

fine words until the baby is out of the womb, then let the mother and child both suffer and drag down society with another unwanted child and disfunctional family. abortion does not fix anything, but it also doesn't make everything worse for all involved. As for the baby, maybe he will have a better time in the next life. of course it helps if your religious belief is not so inflexible that you only believe in an all or nothing world...

defense against what? terrorism for which we blame (the wrong) various third world countries? I see how effective our military is for these problems

important to the country like all that military sh1t that doesn't work, that has rigged tests and so forth? yes, I am very impressed with the way GWB is spending my money. government spending is fine and dandy for all of you guys as long as it involves the ability to kill people (after the womb of course)...

if a man is born desiring other men wtf do you care if they get married or not? many companies already provide domestic benefits. if you have two taxpayers that want to enter into a union, why should they not be provided with the same legal rights and protections as other taxpayers?

this is total bs crap, meaning that you have certain fixed definitions of right and wrong and anyone that disagrees is wrong because your stance is *moral*. what a total load.

The term is one nation under god. it does not define what god is. it does not state a christian god or jehova. if you want a statue of the 10 commandments, buy one and install it in front of your house. I don't want to see that sh1t when i go to renew my license...

please understand that these are just my viewpoints and opinions, not attacks on you or your stance. i don't expect to change anything with the posts, but maybe you will find it to be interesting. or maybe not.



:hmmm: good points Jim

And I'm kinda pissed we send so much money over to iraq, for Americans to die, for people who hate us :down: let's see, where else could the government have spent the 200 BILLION!!! maybe wages for the armed forces so enlisted famillies can get off of wicks :rolleyes: social security? Airport security? Nah, let's use that to make some more money for Halliburten :thumbs:

[BobtheCkroach]

fine words until the baby is out of the womb, then let the mother and child both suffer and drag down society with another unwanted child and disfunctional family. abortion does not fix anything, but it also doesn't make everything worse for all involved. As for the baby, maybe he will have a better time in the next life. of course it helps if your religious belief is not so inflexible that you only believe in an all or nothing world...

if a man is born desiring other men wtf do you care if they get married or not? many companies already provide domestic benefits. if you have two taxpayers that want to enter into a union, why should they not be provided with the same legal rights and protections as other taxpayers?
The term is one nation under god. it does not define what god is. it does not state a christian god or jehova. if you want a statue of the 10 commandments, buy one and install it in front of your house. I don't want to see that sh1t when i go to renew my license...

please understand that these are just my viewpoints and opinions, not attacks on you or your stance. i don't expect to change anything with the posts, but maybe you will find it to be interesting. or maybe not.

Not that I expect to change your mind, either, Jim, but realize that when you're motivated by religion (as I assume Chaotic is), it kinda changes things. I don't think Chaotic is trying to be an insensitive, evil person by saying that he (assuming Chaotic's a guy, since I'm not sure...if you're a girl, Chaotic, then SORRY!) hates abortion, or that he hates homosexuality, and the legalization of it. But when you live by a religion, and your religion states in black and white that homosexuality is a sin, and that you, as followers are called to fight sin as much as you can, then watching the government support such an act is absolutely unbearable.

On the abortion part, the same applies. I don't understand at all how an unborn child changes from a fetus to a baby, just by having Mom spread her legs and push...if the doctor set the child down on the table and put a pin in its head, he'd go to jail for murder...yet if he had pushed the needle between her legs and done it, it's a partial birth abortion...what exactly changes in that time?! I believe that there are alternatives. There is adoption, if the child is unwanted. There's freakin' condems for little kids that can't keep it in their pants, and as such completely deserve the result. I realize that this doesn't cover everything (life-threatening pregnancies, rape pregnancies), and God knows I don't have all the answers. But I believe with all my heart (as a Christian), that if God allowed it to happen, then God has a plan for that child. I'm sorry if you don't agree, I'm just putting out my thoughts, if it helps understand Chaotic and I's views...

As for "your religious belief is not so inflexible that you only believe in an all or nothing world", that's kind of a silly comment. I mean, if the person truly believes in what the Bible says, then how can you be flexible? God specifically says homosexuality is a sin, he tells us that murder is a sin...what room do we have to bargain? We're facing God's will or hell. As are the people in those situations, people that we're called to help. The fact that Chaotic supports banning homosexuality, for instance, shows that he cares very much about those 2 men that wanna sleep together. He recognizes that, by his measure, those men are destined for a future in Hell, and he does not support the government helping you put the first foot in the grave.

And you're a little off...the Pledge of Allegiance says "one nation under God"...that capital G is a big difference. This is not a general god that the pledge refers to.

Anyways, I'm sure that i've pissed someone off enough, and you're ready to tell me how little you think of me, so I'll let ya have a chance now. Thanx for letting me speak my mind, thanx for reading it, and feel free to comment.

[He Is Legend]

Not that I expect to change your mind, either, Jim, but realize that when you're motivated by religion (as I assume Chaotic is), it kinda changes things. I don't think Chaotic is trying to be an insensitive, evil person by saying that he (assuming Chaotic's a guy, since I'm not sure...if you're a girl, Chaotic, then SORRY!) hates abortion, or that he hates homosexuality, and the legalization of it. But when you live by a religion, and your religion states in black and white that homosexuality is a sin, and that you, as followers are called to fight sin as much as you can, then watching the government support such an act is absolutely unbearable.

On the abortion part, the same applies. I don't understand at all how an unborn child changes from a fetus to a baby, just by having Mom spread her legs and push...if the doctor set the child down on the table and put a pin in its head, he'd go to jail for murder...yet if he had pushed the needle between her legs and done it, it's a partial birth abortion...what exactly changes in that time?! I believe that there are alternatives. There is adoption, if the child is unwanted. There's freakin' condems for little kids that can't keep it in their pants, and as such completely deserve the result. I realize that this doesn't cover everything (life-threatening pregnancies, rape pregnancies), and God knows I don't have all the answers. But I believe with all my heart (as a Christian), that if God allowed it to happen, then God has a plan for that child. I'm sorry if you don't agree, I'm just putting out my thoughts, if it helps understand Chaotic and I's views...

As for "your religious belief is not so inflexible that you only believe in an all or nothing world", that's kind of a silly comment. I mean, if the person truly believes in what the Bible says, then how can you be flexible? God specifically says homosexuality is a sin, he tells us that murder is a sin...what room do we have to bargain? We're facing God's will or hell. As are the people in those situations, people that we're called to help. The fact that Chaotic supports banning homosexuality, for instance, shows that he cares very much about those 2 men that wanna sleep together. He recognizes that, by his measure, those men are destined for a future in Hell, and he does not support the government helping you put the first foot in the grave.

And you're a little off...the Pledge of Allegiance says "one nation under God"...that capital G is a big difference. This is not a general god that the pledge refers to.

Anyways, I'm sure that i've pissed someone off enough, and you're ready to tell me how little you think of me, so I'll let ya have a chance now. Thanx for letting me speak my mind, thanx for reading it, and feel free to comment.

Awesome post bob, btw im a guy :p

[BobtheCkroach]

Awesome post bob, btw im a guy :p

Now I know...:p:

[JIMINATOR]

Well, unfortunately we have some differences of opinions. I don't happen to believe that the bible is anything more than a heavily edited piece of history. Many passages are contradictory and inconsistent. Ancient versions of the bible lack passages from the current version. It is essentially a tool to allow a bunch of child molesting priests to wield power over the sheep that they call their flock. The church has no real interest in your spiritual life or the hereafter. It's only interest is in the promotion and continuance of the church, and everything it does is a means to that end. The best thing that ever happened to us is the separation of church and state. It has allowed us to stop dying due to stupid ass reasons like your religion is different. Unfortunately that is not the case in many other countries, which still have religious based rule. Understand that I don't think all religions are bad, just the people that use religion to control other people and impose their version of reality upon others. So yes, people can believe in the bible, and that is great, but what it often comes down to is a particular set of interpretations that they may believe in. This can be seen in that there are so many multitudes of branches in every religion, many often fighting and murdering people in other branches. So religion is a shameful disgrace, again, not because it cares about people, but because it only cares about its self-perpetuation. As for sins, why is it that people get to pick the ones that they hate and will punish other people for? Why do they get to decide which people will go to hell for or not? I don't believe there is any such thing as a sin, just more people imposing their will on the sheep. This can get into a debate about good an evil, but that is just more opinions and context. and oh, I see you mentioned condoms. Well, any form of contraception is a sin under many religions. Not to mention that the unwed mother thing. As for hell, I am glad that you believe in it, and believe that you were born in a religion that will allow you to bypass the whole going to hell forever and ever thing. Strange though, that many religions believe that that is the destiny of all people in every other religion. I guess that allows them to feel smug and superior over all others. When I was 18, I determined that the entire unfairness of religion meant that religion was flawed, and not that god was flawed, and for a true spiritual life it was necessary to look elsewhere. And WTF does the Pledge of Allegiance have to do with the basis of our country? It was created in 1892 and acknowledged by congress in 1942 and "under god" added in 1954. So people want to say god, with a capital G, whatever. As long as they keep their religion based crap to themselves, and I don't care for any party trying to insert that crap into the government. If someone wanted a religion based government, they can move to Iran.

[BobtheCkroach]

Umm...that's really long and hard to break down, and you're so full of contempt for religion, apparently, that I'm not gonna bother with even replying. I tried to simply state my beliefs and for that you did a great job of insulting me and attacking me on every possible level that you could find. I'm sorry if you don't agree with my opinion. I'll remember not to bother replying to you in the future.

[Thundarr]

fine words until the baby is out of the womb, then let the mother and child both suffer and drag down society with another unwanted child and disfunctional family. abortion does not fix anything, but it also doesn't make everything worse for all involved. As for the baby, maybe he will have a better time in the next life. of course it helps if your religious belief is not so inflexible that you only believe in an all or nothing world...

defense against what? terrorism for which we blame (the wrong) various third world countries? I see how effective our military is for these problems

important to the country like all that military sh1t that doesn't work, that has rigged tests and so forth? yes, I am very impressed with the way GWB is spending my money. government spending is fine and dandy for all of you guys as long as it involves the ability to kill people (after the womb of course)...

if a man is born desiring other men wtf do you care if they get married or not? many companies already provide domestic benefits. if you have two taxpayers that want to enter into a union, why should they not be provided with the same legal rights and protections as other taxpayers?

this is total bs crap, meaning that you have certain fixed definitions of right and wrong and anyone that disagrees is wrong because your stance is *moral*. what a total load.

The term is one nation under god. it does not define what god is. it does not state a christian god or jehova. if you want a statue of the 10 commandments, buy one and install it in front of your house. I don't want to see that sh1t when i go to renew my license...

please understand that these are just my viewpoints and opinions, not attacks on you or your stance. i don't expect to change anything with the posts, but maybe you will find it to be interesting. or maybe not.


Jiminator, thanks for saving me some typing!!! I agree! :thumbs:

[Dissectional]

:woohoo:

[Thundarr]

And BTW, I seriously think that Kerry did a much better job at the debate, he spoke clearly, concisely and barely had any stumbles like GWB...

[JIMINATOR]

Bob, I was very careful not to make this personal. Well ok, I did mention you in context with the belief in hell, and I guess I shouldn't have. Religion and politics and forums... they just do not mix well. This is part of a debate, and my opinions on the matter, and was not intended to be an attack on you and your beliefs. Really, I don't care what you believe in. We are all born within a certain set of beliefs and pretty much that is what we go to the grave with. Don't read anything personal into anything that gets posted here....

[MattMan]

I am going to risk being hated after one post, but I feel I may have some (though probably very little) to add.

First of all Jim, it is sad that most of what you have said about religion is true. Many people do use religion for self justification and for the propetuation of religion itself. I agree with you that many churches and other religious organizations have infact missed the point all together (at least the point they claim to seek).

I do believe in God and in the bible. I consider myself very religious, and I know that my religion (christianity) is based on the teachings of Christ. The primary teaching of Christ was to love God, and love others, no matter what. Christ himself was a friend to the prostitutes and drunkards...

I am not going to say that any one is better than any other because I do not believe that, that decision is ours. In fact, for those who do believe in the bible, the bible clearly states that we cannot judge, and we should leave that for God because God judges by what some would call absolute trueth. So I guess what I am saying is all those people that are so quick to condemn others, should reconsider the basis for their argument.

Also about forcing social issues...
If one is a christian then most likely they believe that God has given us a free will. My question to those who think religious social issues should be forced politically is this, if God has given us free will then by forcing people to do what we believe is Gods will, are we not taking away the free will given by God and thus going against him? Now I understand that the purpose of Government is to protect the people and the rights of those people, so obviously murder (among other things) needs to be outlawed in order to protect people. However, on the social issues that are not so extreme; should we not let society decide for itself, even though we are fairly sure it is wrong. We then would have to make society behaive the way we think it should the hard way - get people to actually care about God... is that not what we should concentrate on anyway... We do not have to change the laws if we only get more people interested in the Lord. Then society will change itself, and if not... then society and government has not failed us but rather we have failed them...

If you are still reading I am quite surprises, for I think that I have offended many, but I will be done for the time being...

And as far as all of this Christians aren't doing their jobs thing... I am the most guilty of all... I am just saying that I am to blame...

Thats all I have to add for now...

[Pure_Evil]

Umm...that's really long and hard to break down, and you're so full of contempt for religion, apparently, that I'm not gonna bother with even replying. I tried to simply state my beliefs and for that you did a great job of insulting me and attacking me on every possible level that you could find. I'm sorry if you don't agree with my opinion. I'll remember not to bother replying to you in the future.
How did he attack you by stating his religous beliefs or non- beliefs :eek: you took that post as a personal insult and a attack?? My my.

*I must end my post here because the rest would be deamed attacking and insulting*

[Thundarr]

I am going to risk being hated after one post, but I feel I may have some (though probably very little) to add.

First of all Jim, it is sad that most of what you have said about religion is true. Many people do use religion for self justification and for the propetuation of religion itself. I agree with you that many churches and other religious organizations have infact missed the point all together (at least the point they claim to seek).

I do believe in God and in the bible. I consider myself very religious, and I know that my religion (christianity) is based on the teachings of Christ. The primary teaching of Christ was to love God, and love others, no matter what. Christ himself was a friend to the prostitutes and drunkards...

I am not going to say that any one is better than any other because I do not believe that, that decision is ours. In fact, for those who do believe in the bible, the bible clearly states that we cannot judge, and we should leave that for God because God judges by what some would call absolute trueth. So I guess what I am saying is all those people that are so quick to condemn others, should reconsider the basis for their argument.

Also about forcing social issues...
If one is a christian then most likely they believe that God has given us a free will. My question to those who think religious social issues should be forced politically is this, if God has given us free will then by forcing people to do what we believe is Gods will, are we not taking away the free will given by God and thus going against him? Now I understand that the purpose of Government is to protect the people and the rights of those people, so obviously murder (among other things) needs to be outlawed in order to protect people. However, on the social issues that are not so extreme; should we not let society decide for itself, even though we are fairly sure it is wrong. We then would have to make society behaive the way we think it should the hard way - get people to actually care about God... is that not what we should concentrate on anyway... We do not have to change the laws if we only get more people interested in the Lord. Then society will change itself, and if not... then society and government has not failed us but rather we have failed them...

If you are still reading I am quite surprises, for I think that I have offended many, but I will be done for the time being...

And as far as all of this Christians aren't doing their jobs thing... I am the most guilty of all... I am just saying that I am to blame...

Thats all I have to add for now...

That was a very insightful post... Impressive for post #1! :thumbs:

[CaptainKeyes]

Jim,
All the problems you listed are severely misinformed, your main problem is with the "church" a denomination not based on faith. You call those who follow Christ sheep, when your problem is with those who idolize priests like the catholic church.

I am a lamb of God, not a lamb of a denomination like you cited here "It is essentially a tool to allow a bunch of child molesting priests to wield power over the sheep that they call their flock."

If your a true Christian with no allegiance to a religious domination or sect you understand why the bible is contradictory. The old testament is full of human error and interpretation, written by Abram or Abraham if you will. In the new testament Jesus is literally Gods word made flesh, in other-words there is no human error due to translation or interpretation.
Jesus did however give his approval of Genesis, Sodom and Gomorrah and other parts of the old testament.

There is also a ton of archaeological evidence that certain events described in the old and new testament did in fact take place. But often times they are overlooked by people such as yourself, shrugged off if you will.

On another note
If a fetus is not a baby, why abort it...
whats the debate over if its not a child, why would u even need to abort it?
We all know the answer to this question in many cases is irresponsibility, because it is in fact a child.

[BobtheCkroach]

Bob, I was very careful not to make this personal. Well ok, I did mention you in context with the belief in hell, and I guess I shouldn't have. Religion and politics and forums... they just do not mix well. This is part of a debate, and my opinions on the matter, and was not intended to be an attack on you and your beliefs. Really, I don't care what you believe in. We are all born within a certain set of beliefs and pretty much that is what we go to the grave with. Don't read anything personal into anything that gets posted here....

Alright, sorry about that Jim. I didn't read an attack directly at me (although I guess that's how I phrased it), invidually, as much as an attack on my religion, which i still take personally. I know you weren't trying to attack me as an individual...if you're trying to do that, you just make some gay reference in PJ's threads...

anyways, there's a lot there that I won't respond to, b/c I'm not gonna get you to change your mind and we'll probably end up back at each other's throats. I will, however, respond to one or two, since I'm settled down now.

First, I realize that contreception is viewed as a sin by many religions. I also realize, and fully agree, that sex outside of wedlock is considered a sin. I was not trying to justify having sex as long as you use a condem. I was simply stating, there are ways to avoid abortion. I'm not at all condoning sex outside of wedlock whatsoever. And I agree, we shouldn't look at some sins and toss judgement, and ignore others. I think that a person that commits sex out of wedlock is just as guilty and sin-filled as the person that aborted their child, and that both are equally worthy of forgiveness from God, if they so choose. I was not trying to say "slip on a rubber, b/c sex out of wedlock is better than abortion"...if that's how it came across, sorry for my poor communication skills.

Sorry to get so mad at you (to respond to Pure's comment as well), but please realize (and hopefully understand) that I believe I was born to do God's will, and that I believe that is the only true reason that I'm alive. So when you attack God's Word, and the religion in general, I'm naturally going to take offense to that, as you're basically attacking my reason for living. And you're also attack my personal savior.

Hope that makes more sense to both of you...

[CaptainKeyes]

How did he attack you by stating his religous beliefs or non- beliefs :eek: you took that post as a personal insult and a attack?? My my.

*I must end my post here because the rest would be deamed attacking and insulting*

Funny that you dont believe this phrase reffering to the bible "essentially a tool to allow a bunch of child molesting priests to wield power over the sheep that they call their flock." as a offbeat insult. No wonder you are so lenient in your world views :rolleyes:

[Pure_Evil]

It makes sense, but God's word is interpretted by man, and as Jim poined out, it's been twisted so many ways.

I think God needs to send down a fresh copy of the Bible.


But this topic was about the debate, if you want to talk about politics and religeon, I'm going to go off on the issue of divorce. A contract made in God's house (most of the time) and broken in mans courte.

I doubt you want to go there ;)

[BobtheCkroach]

Funny that you dont believe this phrase reffering to the bible "essentially a tool to allow a bunch of child molesting priests to wield power over the sheep that they call their flock." as a offbeat insult. No wonder you are so lenient in your world views :rolleyes:

Thank you, Captain.

[SASQUATCH]

what exactly are we fixing? Are we fixing the fact that we are an invading force and everyone down there hates us and blames us for all of their problems? are we fixing the the fact that terrorists are more easily able to recruit people to fight off the foreign invaders? are we fixing the fact that many muslums consider what we are doing to be an attack on islam? sorry, history is too deep and we are not changing anything.

Let me repeat it again ok. We are there to help train and provide the service that they will need to begin taken responsibilty and that is what we have here which again isn't perfect. So again we are there to provide training not just in security but in business and more. That is the plan at this moment not just helping them with security against terrorists but other important matters to help the country grow. One other to and again I keep hearing this we have to get involve and bit it at the heart of it before it can get worse, so by doing something now there is hope but ifwe don't get involve then where will hope be.

Jim it's like saying not to get invovle when in fact it will effect all of us in the future and if you don't believe that then move to disney land with Slice. j/k

Last thing too we are not perfect but there is always room for improvement which we have the devices to do so. History is part of mistakes and preventing mistakes and it's not perfect but as long as we try and again we carry this torch and I would hope many other countries will join in to take in more responsibilty.

[CaptainKeyes]

Also, what MattMann stated is true, we should not be judgemental and should love all. But that does NOT mean we should be accepting of sinful deeds. It is possible to love someone but not accept the sins that may consume them.

[Pure_Evil]

Funny that you dont believe this phrase reffering to the bible "essentially a tool to allow a bunch of child molesting priests to wield power over the sheep that they call their flock." as a offbeat insult. No wonder you are so lenient in your world views :rolleyes:

Where I live, I see the Bible "used" in many twisted ways. Verry few people talk the talk and walk the walk when it comes to the bible. I didn't find it insulting, I saw it as a generalization that was overboard, the fact is, it is used that way by some :down:

I'm not that lenient in world views at all... I just don't post on religeon too often.

[MattMan]

Also, what MattMann stated is true, we should not be judgemental and should love all. But that does NOT mean we should be accepting of sinful deeds. It is possible to love someone but not accept the sins that may consume them.

I totally agree, Hate the sin, not the sinner... We cannot accept the sin around us, but we must be careful to seperate that sin from the person, because if we don't we become a group of people looking down on others... and that is very bad...

[BobtheCkroach]

Where I live, I see the Bible "used" in many twisted ways. Verry few people talk the talk and walk the walk when it comes to the bible. I didn't find it insulting, I saw it as a generalization that was overboard, the fact is, it is used that way by some :down:

I'm not that lenient in world views at all... I just don't post on religeon too often.

I definitely agree with that, Pure. The Bible is very much abused at time, and it's unfortunate. At the same time, that doesn't mean that what's inside it is wrong, it means the people using it are wrong.

But when you degrade the Bible down the way jim did, attacking it, rather than the misguided priests, it's gonna be an attack on Christians, too. And that's how I took it.

[CaptainKeyes]

It was aimed to be insulting whether you accept it as such or not. Otherwise no offense would be taken.

[CaptainKeyes]

I totally agree, Hate the sin, not the sinner... We cannot accept the sin around us, but we must be careful to seperate that sin from the person, because if we don't we become a group of people looking down on others... and that is very bad...
Indeed.
sadly, many people see faith as a black and white subject as well.
as was demonstrated with the christian "all in one boat religion, that boat being the catholic church" excerpt.
(sigh)

[SASQUATCH]

well, the body count since we started this war . Iraqi body count between 12976 to 15003, granted, not quite up to saddam's marks yet, but still quite impressive :down:

And sorry, but all those killed by saddam, not our problem, Iraqi's have brains, they can stand up on their own. This war is BS.

Keep in mind, the WORLD didn't want us to invade Iraq, so comparing it to the world wars isn't reasonable. If we're there because of what Saddam did to his people, then why didn't we go to Darfur?? How come we don't go after the Checkens after they slaughtered those children??? Typical political hypocracy to hide GREED!

Granded greed is a bad thing and I will agree with you there but to say not to get invovle especially the importance of Oil which again we should find other means of natural resource we have to be there ok. Tell that to the rich people. Pure I wish we never had to rely on there ****ing Oil and again Iraq does need help just like when we started against the English when we declare independance thanks to the french etc and then later on we learn from the other countries that provided us some ideas to help build this counrty.

It's like saying I play UT2004 and I don't know much of the scripts that are needed but having you there Pure with your experience helps provide me the resource for better performance while playing. There is no way everyone does thing alone without the help of others because Idea's comes from the past or from history and what is really nice about it is that we at this time learn from it and perfected in a better way. A unique idea is people with talent but it carries something behind it and that is ideas that were from the past

Without History there is no future.

[SASQUATCH]

Well, unfortunately we have some differences of opinions. I don't happen to believe that the bible is anything more than a heavily edited piece of history. Many passages are contradictory and inconsistent. Ancient versions of the bible lack passages from the current version. It is essentially a tool to allow a bunch of child molesting priests to wield power over the sheep that they call their flock. The church has no real interest in your spiritual life or the hereafter. It's only interest is in the promotion and continuance of the church, and everything it does is a means to that end. The best thing that ever happened to us is the separation of church and state. It has allowed us to stop dying due to stupid ass reasons like your religion is different. Unfortunately that is not the case in many other countries, which still have religious based rule. Understand that I don't think all religions are bad, just the people that use religion to control other people and impose their version of reality upon others. So yes, people can believe in the bible, and that is great, but what it often comes down to is a particular set of interpretations that they may believe in. This can be seen in that there are so many multitudes of branches in every religion, many often fighting and murdering people in other branches. So religion is a shameful disgrace, again, not because it cares about people, but because it only cares about its self-perpetuation. As for sins, why is it that people get to pick the ones that they hate and will punish other people for? Why do they get to decide which people will go to hell for or not? I don't believe there is any such thing as a sin, just more people imposing their will on the sheep. This can get into a debate about good an evil, but that is just more opinions and context. and oh, I see you mentioned condoms. Well, any form of contraception is a sin under many religions. Not to mention that the unwed mother thing. As for hell, I am glad that you believe in it, and believe that you were born in a religion that will allow you to bypass the whole going to hell forever and ever thing. Strange though, that many religions believe that that is the destiny of all people in every other religion. I guess that allows them to feel smug and superior over all others. When I was 18, I determined that the entire unfairness of religion meant that religion was flawed, and not that god was flawed, and for a true spiritual life it was necessary to look elsewhere. And WTF does the Pledge of Allegiance have to do with the basis of our country? It was created in 1892 and acknowledged by congress in 1942 and "under god" added in 1954. So people want to say god, with a capital G, whatever. As long as they keep their religion based crap to themselves, and I don't care for any party trying to insert that crap into the government. If someone wanted a religion based government, they can move to Iran.

Jim I agree with you 100% and there is more to it but I will not get into it.

Logic is to me reasonable and it will help us and using good judgment to the best of our knowledge and to be reminded that history plays a major roll in our decisions.

[SASQUATCH]

I think God needs to send down a fresh copy of the Bible.


;)

LMAO LMAO !!!!

[Pure_Evil]

what's sad is I read the transcripts from the debate (http://www.dailybulletin.com/Stories/0,1413,203%257E24653%257E2438282,00.html) and they didn't include all the uhh...hmmm..uhhh's :rolleyes: If you didn't watch it, you'd never know how poorly Bush handled himself, well, carried himself, if he handled himself, that might be a sin :D

[TheMaster]

All the major national polls are now saying Senator Kerry won the debate last night. Not just CBS, but also CNN, USA Today, MSNBC, Fox News, ABC News, all of it.

[EXEcution]

I think we should talk about how this election will enchance our pwning skills, and possibly further postpone the release date of ss2....

[Mad Fox]

Despite all the evils that the Catholic Church has committed trhough its 2 milenia of existance, it continues to play a major role in our world today. In the last 20 years it helped to bring down communism in eastern europe, it continues to provide shelters, food pantries, and half way homes in cities across the world. The Church also provides food and basic nessicites to those in the poorest of all nations. The churches educated millions of people around the world" myself included".

The Church's policies on abortion and other social policies are soley based on tradtion and an interpretation of the Bible. I believe someone mention the message and books of the Bible and how the Church contorts its meaning. The Catholic Bible as we know it today was officailly compiled in by the year 250. The reason the Church did not include some of the book that written is because that they had meanings that did not flow with Church teachings ( this includes books that say Christ was only divine and that he was only Human: the Church teaches that he was both)


Any Question on official Church doctrine i got ya cover



I've only been in Catholic School for 13 years

[ME BIGGD01]

hello people, i am back:D

these kinds of threads get flooded by no knowledge speaking people on the current events.

pure evil---so what we lost over 1000 americans. it's sad but it's war. did you think we wouldnt lose any americans in a war? do you honestly believe that if kerry becomes president we will not lose more than another 1000 americans? do you really know whats going on in iraq? if so please explain what you think is going on.

for you people that claim anyone won the debates, please get over that statement. you need to inform yourself with facts not fiction. like i said kerry did well but he is very good at debating. that doesnt make it the fact that he will now become president or that he changed the minds of the bush supporters. i mean, you kerry freaks think this is a football game. i cant wait to november to rub it in your faces that kerry will still be a loser:thumbs: . you people take what kerry says and without research consider it an ok plan as if bush is some moron and isnt do what needs to be done. not once have you people to this day have been able to produce any plan of kerrys rather than bs statements. none of you kerry suporters have been able to produce anything but to point out where kerry hs says bush failed. you people are in fantasy land to think kerry who hasnt done anything for the senate in 20 years is going run america. it amazes me the people look at kerry and hear him bash the military, served a few months in nam and think he is a hero. he speaks well so he is a smarter presidnt. please, that is the dumbest crap i ever heard. kerry is a spoiled bitch who hasnt done anything for this country but bashed it and turned on the gov't when he got back from nam. he should be held up on charges yet he has not. one day he passes out peace signs and flowers, the next day he says he is going to win the war on terrorism. the guy is your pipe dream so wrap your lips around his pipe and keep blowing. he will not win. there are more realistic people the tv viewers out there.

and as for anyne who thinks they will r can personally attack me saying i suck, i will attack you back with personal attacks.

don't be gay to make a statement without input. you type ofpeople are the most pothetic and weak. i respect those who come here and debate regardless of being wrong or not but th others tha are ignorant and too dumb or cowardly to atleast counter your own comment against anothes with reason. if you can not do that, dont bother posting in this thread or be prepared to ge attacked back. at this point, no mercy:mad:

[Pure_Evil]

pure evil---so what we lost over 1000 americans. it's sad but it's war. did you think we wouldnt lose any americans in a war? do you honestly believe that if kerry becomes president we will not lose more than another 1000 americans? do you really know whats going on in iraq? if so please explain what you think is going on.

If you've read any of my political posts, you'd know what I think is going on ever in Iraq, I've even quoted a man who served for 1 year over there. But since it didn't go with your view, you blew it off.

If one of those thousand + dead was your daughter, I wonder how you'd handle it.Because a thousand famillies have to deal with that, and you say "so what" GG :down:

No, I don't think we wont lose another thousand under Kerry, because he has one huge Bush mess to clean up!

More proof that you don't read the posts, because if you did, you'd know I don't support Kerry either.

You just keep ranting bro, don't have to attack you personally, because your posts do that enough, also, I happen to like you :D probably the evil part of me ;)

[SASQUATCH]

I am not for sure taking things serious because I been told to stick that up my as* and I will not allow myself to take it seriously. Besides everyone has there own opinion which I want everyone to know I do repect ok.

We have know each other here at GM to know the difference to take it personally. I try to anyway because I know we have good people here and it's good to share our own veiw points and learn from each other and somethings we don't need only what is necessary.

Besides I had nothing to do yesterday and couldn't sleep. LOL

[JIMINATOR]

ah, the beauty of it is that nothing that gets said here is going to change anything. it may piss some people off or make others cry, but changes = 0. hopefully this year the people in florida will have figured out the whole chad thing... :thumbs:
we should get slice to start a chad awareness campaign...

[SASQUATCH]

ah, the beauty of it is that nothing that gets said here is going to change anything. it may piss some people off or make others cry, but changes = 0. hopefully this year the people in florida will have figured out the whole chad thing... :thumbs:
we should get slice to start a chad awareness campaign...

LMAO - LMAO

[ME BIGGD01]

If you've read any of my political posts, you'd know what I think is going on ever in Iraq, I've even quoted a man who served for 1 year over there. But since it didn't go with your view, you blew it off.

If one of those thousand + dead was your daughter, I wonder how you'd handle it.Because a thousand famillies have to deal with that, and you say "so what" GG

No, I don't think we wont lose another thousand under Kerry, because he has one huge Bush mess to clean up!

More proof that you don't read the posts, because if you did, you'd know I don't support Kerry either.

You just keep ranting bro, don't have to attack you personally, because your posts do that enough, also, I happen to like you :D probably the evil part of me ;)

i just typed the longst response and because of an error of too many smilees, it was deleted. i am pissed now because it took time.

[T I K]

And now for something totally different and 2 allow some interjection of a little humor ! :D Disclaimer: No offense intended :thumbs:

Comedy sound bites # 1 (http://www.diymedia.net/audio/mp3/ubuibi-ftheleader.mp3)


Comedy sound bites # 2 (http://www.diymedia.net/audio/mp3/unknown-2minbush.mp3)


Comedy sound bites # 3 (http://www.diymedia.net/audio/mp3/NCN-rapeoftheunion.mp3)

[Slice]

And now for something totally different and 2 allow some interjection of a little humor ! :D Disclaimer: No offense intended :thumbs:

Comedy sound bites # 1 (http://www.diymedia.net/audio/mp3/ubuibi-ftheleader.mp3)


Comedy sound bites # 2 (http://www.diymedia.net/audio/mp3/unknown-2minbush.mp3)


Comedy sound bites # 3 (http://www.diymedia.net/audio/mp3/NCN-rapeoftheunion.mp3)
Lol, good stuff.

[JIMINATOR]

I am going to risk being hated after one post, but I feel I may have some (though probably very little) to add.

you know a thread must be good when people (or ex members) join to post their .02 worth.... :thumbs:

[JIMINATOR]

and finally, bob:
You are going to be bombarded with different opinions throughout your life.
You can:
A) agree with them (internally) and kill the messenger
B) agree with them (internally) and be depressed
C) disagree with them and come to an understanding of why they said what they said.

as an example:
You are unemployeed and your girlfriend says that you are a lazy good for nothing bum.
You:
A) slap the shi out of her
B) get depressed and go drinking with buddies
C) say ok, that is how you feel, and I can understand why you feel that way, but that is not me, who I am or what I am about.

I think you will find life much more satisfactory if you approach every situation with C.

[Slice]

and finally, bob:
You are going to be bombarded with different opinions throughout your life.
You can:
A) agree with them (internally) and kill the messenger
B) agree with them (internally) and be depressed
C) disagree with them and come to an understanding of why they said what they said.

as an example:
You are unemployeed and your girlfriend says that you are a lazy good for nothing bum.
You:
A) slap the shi out of her
B) get depressed and go drinking with buddies
C) say ok, that is how you feel, and I can understand why you feel that way, but that is not me, who I am or what I am about.

I think you will find life much more satisfactory if you approach every situation with C.
You forgot D) buy her a nice set of concrete boots and take a boat ride.

[Schism]

We have had the technology to power automobiles with non-fossil based fuels for years.



Current engines can be made to run efficiently and much cleaner on almost pure alcohol with very little modification. America has the capacity to produce enormous amounts of alcohol-based fuel, and yet farmers are being paid buy our government NOT to grow wheat.



The technology to manufacture engines out of ceramics has been around for more than 20 years. Ceramic engines are able to burn fuel hotter and therefore more efficiently and require NO oil for lubrication because of ceramic’s incredible hardness and durability. And yet this technology has virtually disappeared.



Hydrogen fuel cell technology was advancing rapidly ten years ago and had already been proven viable and safe in numerous prototype automobiles. Hydrogen can be produced cheaply and easily. You can produce hydrogen (and oxygen) from water in your own dining room with materials you have lying around your house. But you don’t hear much about fuel cell research, do you?



Automobiles could, and should, be made almost entirely of thermoplastics and carbon composites that exist today. They would be cheaper to manufacture, be much lighter, more fuel-efficient, and be more durable and safer. Currently composites are rarely used at all and the use of thermoplastics are mostly limited to dashboards, bumpers, and Saturn door panels.



Where did the hydrogen fuel cells go? Ask the auto manufacturers because they (primarily GM) have bought up all of the patents. Where did the technology to manufacture ceramic engines go? And why isn’t there an infrastructure for dispensing alcohol-based fuels like there is for dispensing gasoline? Ask the American oil companies. They hold the patents and control America’s fuel distribution. Why aren’t cars being manufactured primarily from composites and plastics? Ask the American steel industry. They have the leverage to control which materials are used by the auto manufacturers.



Our true enemies lie within our own borders. You want to blame someone for our reliance on foreign oil and the current situation I the Middle East? Blame American industry, and the stranglehold they have on our political system.

[EXEcution]

They won't stop people from biulding the world's fastest and most efficient computer, but the automobile is a totally different story.

[Ra\/en]

ya know.. one of my university proffesors told me once, That Religion and politics were at the core of people's beliefs... and if you were to ever meet your fiancee's parents do NOT bring those up.

they can cause some of the most heated debates ever.

Do we really need to argue over things that arent gonna change nuttin?

[Ra\/en]

ya know.. one of my university proffesors told me once, That Religion and politics were at the core of people's beliefs... and if you were to ever meet your fiancee's parents do NOT bring those up.

they can cause some of the most heated debates ever.

Do we really need to argue over things that arent gonna change regardless of how we argue. nuttin?

[EXEcution]

no but we're people and we do, we don't need to fight other countries, there don't need to be terrorists, or weapons, but such things exsist and probably always will.

[Slice]

They won't stop people from biulding the world's fastest and most efficient computer, but the automobile is a totally different story.
Execution has a very valid point. If you think that the government is the one who decides things for you than you are sadly mistaken. What's funny is everyone thinks that the so called "rich" get these great tax cuts. Do you know who gets these? This country is run by about 1,000 mega rich people. I am not talking oooh he has a few million dollars, I am talking billions if not trillions. If you think this is bull**** do some reasearch. They are not interested in taking money from each other, they want your money. The regular working class and small business class people.

[EXEcution]

Thanx Slice for seeing my point.
And i don't really care for this stuff so i generally try to stay away from it, its the best approach to any situation that might result in hatred towards the opposing person or party, or violence.
If you stay out of other people's business, they will stay out of yours...

[solid snake295]

hey! Would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs? :confused:

[EXEcution]

LOL! That was a pretty funny SNL sketch...

[SASQUATCH]

and finally, bob:
You are going to be bombarded with different opinions throughout your life.
You can:
A) agree with them (internally) and kill the messenger
B) agree with them (internally) and be depressed
C) disagree with them and come to an understanding of why they said what they said.

as an example:
You are unemployeed and your girlfriend says that you are a lazy good for nothing bum.
You:
A) slap the shi out of her
B) get depressed and go drinking with buddies
C) say ok, that is how you feel, and I can understand why you feel that way, but that is not me, who I am or what I am about.

I think you will find life much more satisfactory if you approach every situation with C.

I say Slap the shi1 out of her. . . . LMAO

[Slice]

ya know.. one of my university proffesors told me once, That Religion and politics were at the core of people's beliefs... and if you were to ever meet your fiancee's parents do NOT bring those up.

they can cause some of the most heated debates ever.

Do we really need to argue over things that arent gonna change regardless of how we argue. nuttin?Just because someone tells you something you seem to eat it even though it tastes like sh1t and accept that? Come on Raven, you have a voice. Your views are different I suppose but it doesn't involve you so I guess it doesn't matter. Or does it, when the wrong president remains in office and pisses off the wrong country and lets a Nuke Drop right on your neighboring country. Oh so sorry Canada that the radiation from the Nuke is traveling your way. Is this what you want to hear? Doesn't it scare anyone that when both candidates asked last night what is the most prominant threat that needed to be dealt with was nuclear weapons? Both candidates spoke like they knew something we don't.

[EXEcution]

Yea getting nuked is probably the worst thing imaginabe to human beings.
We did it to Japan twice during ww2, and it wasn't pretty.
If the immidiate explosion and burns don't kill you then that ionizing radiation sure will.

[solid snake295]

Just because someone tells you something you seem to eat it even though it tastes like sh1t and accept that? Come on Raven, you have a voice. Your views are different I suppose but it doesn't involve you so I guess it doesn't matter. Or does it, when the wrong president gets in to office and pisses off the wrong country and lets a Nuke Drop right on your neighboring country. Oh so sorry Canada that the radiation from the Nuke is traveling your way. Is this what you want to hear? Doesn't it scare anyone that when both candidates asked last night what is the most prominant threat that needed to be dealt with was nuclear weapons? Both candidates spoke like they knew something we don't.
your right Slice, thats why i hope kerry wins because hes not bush. bush seems more for the war then kerry. war = bad. george bush = the devil :doh:

[CaptainKeyes]

yawn.
i know what i got on my tax return, and it was waaayyy way way more than any tax relief i ever had under clinton

i promise you im not even upper middle class.

[Slice]

yawn.
i know what i got on my tax return, and it was waaayyy way way more than any tax relief i ever had under clinton

i promise you im not even upper middle class.
How do you consider yourself?

[CaptainKeyes]

low ranking middle class.

[ME BIGGD01]

your right Slice, thats why i hope kerry wins because hes not bush. bush seems more for the war then kerry. war = bad. george bush = the devil :doh:
what are you like 10 years old? bush is for the war? like bush wants the war? isnt it past your bedtime? why don't you and your parents take a trip to the mid east. anywhere... and walk around for awhile and see if anything happends to you. what do you think we started this war? do your homework and get off the computer.


edit--i just saw you are from canada. you must live in the legal pot smoking area.

[Slice]

low ranking middle class.
So what are we talking in dollar amount increase that you seem to think. Also did you compare it to last year and the year before? I bet you got less money this year over last. Of course it also depends on how you file and what you claim.

[ME BIGGD01]

Yea getting nuked is probably the worst thing imaginabe to human beings.
We did it to Japan twice during ww2, and it wasn't pretty.
If the immidiate explosion and burns don't kill you then that ionizing radiation sure will.
you are right. the hbomb was mean but.....they attacked us first. is that ok with you? it's not for me when americans were killed. the hbomb was the right bomb and solved the problem. no regrets!!!!! look how fast japan complied after it. it was then when america should of dropped them on the other countries to take over the world the right way. just think, hitler could of done this but we stopped him so all the other countries can spit in americas faces. and not support america when asked. no, they would rather scandal with one of the worlds enemies who we america took out. i wonder how they would of felt if we ran some scandals with hitler at that time.

hbomb worked, now lets put the newr tools to work and eliminate all of the muslim nations who want to cause terror or won't bother to stop it. after a few of them wipe out, we can count the days before they comply just like the japs did. they cant blame us for the hbomb. they blame themself for attacking us first. thats war!!!!

[Slice]

what are you like 10 years old? bush is for the war? like bush wants the war? isnt it past your bedtime? why don't you and your parents take a trip to the mid east. anywhere... and walk around for awhile and see if anything happends to you. what do you think we started this war? do your homework and get off the computer.


edit--i just saw you are from canada. you must live in the legal pot smoking area.
Bigg I know your statements for the most part and this one sounds a bit like you are drunk. I mean no harm but maybe reply to this tomorrow after some sleep tonight. ;)

[ME BIGGD01]

Just because someone tells you something you seem to eat it even though it tastes like sh1t and accept that? Come on Raven, you have a voice. Your views are different I suppose but it doesn't involve you so I guess it doesn't matter. Or does it, when the wrong president remains in office and pisses off the wrong country and lets a Nuke Drop right on your neighboring country. Oh so sorry Canada that the radiation from the Nuke is traveling your way. Is this what you want to hear? Doesn't it scare anyone that when both candidates asked last night what is the most prominant threat that needed to be dealt with was nuclear weapons? Both candidates spoke like they knew something we don't.

slice, if you vote for kerry, there is more of a chance of a nuke being exploded in america. and america will deserve it then for voting for a fvking moron bs artist. still no kerry plans have been mentioned by the kerry supporters. i guess it's just easy to say kerry will be better then bush because um, you never mention a valid reason other than you say he is stupid, yada, yada, yada....

i am curious what you kerry supporters expect at war time and what america has gone through the past 4 years. what do you think bush did wrong? dont copy and paste either. use your own words and also say what your president would of done. this i am dying to hear (read).

[ME BIGGD01]

Bigg I know your statements for the most part and this one sounds a bit like you are drunk. I mean no harm but maybe reply to this tomorrow after some sleep tonight. ;)
i am not drunk. i am pissed of when a stupid comment is made saying the president of my country is evil. screw that. his comment makes no sense and acts as america wants war or the president wants war. thats just the dumbest thing to say when americans are fighting. and what pisses me off the most is he or she is from canada. a country that isnt doing anything on the wr on terror. they just let the terrorist pass right through to enter here.

[ME BIGGD01]

low ranking middle class.
if kerry gets elected, anyone who makes over 30,000 dollars is considered middle class. democrats give the breaks to minorities. a minoritt is not race, it's skin color. if you are an immigrant from italy, ireland etc etc, you get no benefits because you have white skin. but have a name like luis or latisha and the sky's the limit. one of the things i like about bush is he is against affirmitive action. affirmitive action is racism.

vote for kerry and watch how much taxes go up:thumbs: and when you lose your job or house or need assistance, watch and see how much help you get from the gov't before you have to lose everything you worked for. yup, that's the system.

[ME BIGGD01]

And now for something totally different and 2 allow some interjection of a little humor ! :D Disclaimer: No offense intended :thumbs:

Comedy sound bites # 1 (http://www.diymedia.net/audio/mp3/ubuibi-ftheleader.mp3)


Comedy sound bites # 2 (http://www.diymedia.net/audio/mp3/unknown-2minbush.mp3)


Comedy sound bites # 3 (http://www.diymedia.net/audio/mp3/NCN-rapeoftheunion.mp3)
where is the humor in these? i think they are stupid. did you get them from moveon.org?

[Ra\/en]

Just because someone tells you something you seem to eat it even though it tastes like sh1t and accept that? Come on Raven, you have a voice. Your views are different I suppose but it doesn't involve you so I guess it doesn't matter. Or does it, when the wrong president remains in office and pisses off the wrong country and lets a Nuke Drop right on your neighboring country. Oh so sorry Canada that the radiation from the Nuke is traveling your way. Is this what you want to hear? Doesn't it scare anyone that when both candidates asked last night what is the most prominant threat that needed to be dealt with was nuclear weapons? Both candidates spoke like they knew something we don't.


I guess i suffer from what most canadians seem to suffer from... not willing to stand up and say what they think on war issues... or presidency issues.. or what not... I was merely trying to make light of the conversation... Yes, Canada is affected by their good and wonderful neighbours in the south (north and west too.. if you think about it LOL) and i personally would ally with america before most any other nation out there. I'm just the type of person to think that there should be no wars blah blah blah... not gonna happen... Im just sick of it all. Americans cannot and will not stop war from happening. Stop terrorism now, 30 years, heck 5 years from now more will come. its not gonna stop.


but if you do want my honest-to-God opinion, i do believe that kerry is the better candidate. If for no other reason then i've seen what Bush can do. And frankly
IM NOT IMPRESSED.

there ya go...

[Ra\/en]

you are right. the hbomb was mean but.....they attacked us first. is that ok with you? it's not for me when americans were killed. the hbomb was the right bomb and solved the problem. no regrets!!!!! look how fast japan complied after it. it was then when america should of dropped them on the other countries to take over the world the right way. just think, hitler could of done this but we stopped him so all the other countries can spit in americas faces. and not support america when asked. no, they would rather scandal with one of the worlds enemies who we america took out. i wonder how they would of felt if we ran some scandals with hitler at that time.

hbomb worked, now lets put the newr tools to work and eliminate all of the muslim nations who want to cause terror or won't bother to stop it. after a few of them wipe out, we can count the days before they comply just like the japs did. they cant blame us for the hbomb. they blame themself for attacking us first. thats war!!!!

So what your saying.. is that to have peace.. you need to kill people. Killing people will make things better. How about all those thousands of people affected in nagasaki and hiroshima... How about all the worldwide percecution of the japanese after the attack on pearl harbour..... How about the innocent japanese people living in Canada for example even, sent away to (similar to german) concentration camps.. minus the systematic killing..?

I dont know what ethnicity you are.. you would probably say american. And you are right. (well country allegiance etc... blah blah blah) But what if some people from your ethnicity terrorized the people of america. Suddenly you are seen as the bad guy as well. suddenly YOU are the problem.

Now imagine some totally devoted american sikh/paki/whatnot... are they dangerous too? probably not! but oh no! percecution abounds!!! w00t!!!

us Canadians have to have passports to enter your wonderful country now... I understand that, but things are not going to change from the outside unless the change from the inside too. Bush will not solve the problem. He will make the population of america happy and patriotic, and repell the evil bad people of (insert evil middle eastern country here), but at the end of the day, its just going to happen again.

I dont think people enjoy being told what to do in their countries... I'm not saying that we should leave them be, and let hate and death continue... but the current ways of dealing with things have problems......


We wouldnt be at war if it were not so...

[ME BIGGD01]

why do you think kerry is a better candidate? why??? can someone tell me why with reason? even if you are from canada, so i can try to see what you see and what i am missing? where is that you find kerry to be the better man and what gave you that?

can someone at gamemecca who supports kerry give for once a valid reason to their choice with a copy and paste???? can someone prove anything rather then make statements? is it so much to get a valid point from someone that supports kerry? i will also except a reason for anyone not likeing bush but atleast have the facts before it's posted.

[ME BIGGD01]

So what your saying.. is that to have peace.. you need to kill people. Killing people will make things better. How about all those thousands of people affected in nagasaki and hiroshima... How about all the worldwide percecution of the japanese after the attack on pearl harbour..... How about the innocent japanese people living in Canada for example even, sent away to (similar to german) concentration camps.. minus the systematic killing..?

I dont know what ethnicity you are.. you would probably say american. And you are right. (well country allegiance etc... blah blah blah) But what if some people from your ethnicity terrorized the people of america. Suddenly you are seen as the bad guy as well. suddenly YOU are the problem.

Now imagine some totally devoted american sikh/paki/whatnot... are they dangerous too? probably not! but oh no! percecution abounds!!! w00t!!!

us Canadians have to have passports to enter your wonderful country now... I understand that, but things are not going to change from the outside unless the change from the inside too. Bush will not solve the problem. He will make the population of america happy and patriotic, and repell the evil bad people of (insert evil middle eastern country here), but at the end of the day, its just going to happen again.

I dont think people enjoy being told what to do in their countries... I'm not saying that we should leave them be, and let hate and death continue... but the current ways of dealing with things have problems......


We wouldnt be at war if it were not so...1st paragraph--killing the enemy will make us safe. i do not live in fantasy land and think there will ever be peace until the second coming. i do think that in order to be safe, you need to kill the enemy befor ethey are able to kill you. everyone speaks of japan but not once do they look to see what japan was attempting to do. the full picture needs to be looked at. and we avoided it. now japan is a peaceful place and one of our number 1 allies. what was done needed to be done. unless someone could tell me whatthey think could of been done instead.

2nd paragraph--i am american irish---and the irish were here building america and made it a great country. my ancestors were immigrants here and were treated worste then the immigrants here. the irish had it really bad and many still do in ireland. there is alot of history i could go over about the irish and the treatment a living they went under the britains rule. if ireland was harboring terrorists i would say nuke them to but being realistic, they are religous people. and there religeon does not have hatred for other religouns or ethnic groups like the muslims preach. you have to look at the full history between arabs and irish to know the difference

3rd---i don't understand it. if you are saying that if a group of americans went to another country lets say canada and flew some plains into one of you largest buildings, should canada be at war against america. and if so, no. we would own canada if they wanted to:D but our gov't would not allow groups to do such things nor would they finance it like the arab countries have been doing. theres a big difference but the point i am trying to make is if the gov't supports it--then it's war:thumbs:

4th-how do you know bush wont solve it? he atleast is trying. i will not accept kerrys plan allowing other countries to decide for us. the problem with america is the people. the people who are ignorant to research and actually know what is going on. i would say 97 percent of the people don't realize what clinton did to hurt this country. the difference between me and these people is i am not 1 sided and believe everything i hear read or watch. i know the gods and bads of bush and i know the goods and bads of kerry. i weighed them out and bush is the only choice. i would rather a better candidate but the choice (true choice not some moron that is on the ballet who has no chance) i will go for is bush. kerry is wrong and if people took the time themself like i do and actually researched the truth, they would understand me rather thinking i don't know what i am talking about. i have asked for reasons from everyone why they choose kerry so i can show them where they may be wrong.

5th--i hear people say that but if you think those people in iraq are not happy we are there (and i mean the ones that want peace and freedom) you are crazy. i for one could careless for any of them for not fighting themself and ould rather we kill them all and just take it over like countries are supposed to do when at war, but america just rebuilds them like they did for germany and japan and just about the whole world who needs help. that's just me. on the other hand we are are rebuilding them and showing them they too can be free. to me it sounds lik a catch 22 from what you said. if they don't want us to help them, they want to still be the enemy because of their dictatorship and hate for us. this would then make my plan sound better just killing them all right? you tell me...

6th---there are current way of dealing with problems and america is dealing with them. lets look at th countries not daling with them. and lets look at the countries that were taking bribes and running a scandal. sure it's easy to say america is failing when we were held up by the united nation and such and didnt get help from the countries that were supposed to be our allies (why would they help when they were making billions under the table). we have not been in iraq that long considering what has been done already. i would bet that most of the posters here havent a clue what has been done for the iraqi's. the dont' know the positives lthat are happening such as th schools being built and much more than that. why? because they fail to look at the facts and listen to just negatives. the media is not innocent either. but if you actually done research or anyone, they would see that things are getting done. i would also like to know when people say things are not getting done right like kerry said, what is not being done right? how can that assumption be made? is everything supposed to be done in 1 year? are we not fighting terrorists from iran and other terrorist harboring countries? why do you think these countries are sending in troops to fight and kill us? i sometimes think the majority think we are just fight the citizens of iraq or they are the ones that are killing americans. that's so false and their attitude and comments in support of kerry regardless are false but worste hurt this country and will be the reason if we fail. that is a plain fact and the democrats have done nothing for america positive. they tell the world we are rong fo going into iraq. and the blind support them. imo, forget it, i wont say.

and the last comment---you are not at war. canada is not in iraq helping. they are not in afganistan either.

[Ra\/en]

1st paragraph--killing the enemy will make us safe. i do not live in fantasy land and think there will ever be peace until the second coming. i do think that in order to be safe, you need to kill the enemy befor ethey are able to kill you. everyone speaks of japan but not once do they look to see what japan was attempting to do. the full picture needs to be looked at. and we avoided it. now japan is a peaceful place and one of our number 1 allies. what was done needed to be done. unless someone could tell me whatthey think could of been done instead.

2nd paragraph--i am american irish---and the irish were here building america and made it a great country. my ancestors were immigrants here and were treated worste then the immigrants here. the irish had it really bad and many still do in ireland. there is alot of history i could go over about the irish and the treatment a living they went under the britains rule. if ireland was harboring terrorists i would say nuke them to but being realistic, they are religous people. and there religeon does not have hatred for other religouns or ethnic groups like the muslims preach. you have to look at the full history between arabs and irish to know the difference

3rd---i don't understand it. if you are saying that if a group of americans went to another country lets say canada and flew some plains into one of you largest buildings, should canada be at war against america. and if so, no. we would own canada if they wanted to:D but our gov't would not allow groups to do such things nor would they finance it like the arab countries have been doing. theres a big difference but the point i am trying to make is if the gov't supports it--then it's war:thumbs:

4th-how do you know bush wont solve it? he atleast is trying. i will not accept kerrys plan allowing other countries to decide for us. the problem with america is the people. the people who are ignorant to research and actually know what is going on. i would say 97 percent of the people don't realize what clinton did to hurt this country. the difference between me and these people is i am not 1 sided and believe everything i hear read or watch. i know the gods and bads of bush and i know the goods and bads of kerry. i weighed them out and bush is the only choice. i would rather a better candidate but the choice (true choice not some moron that is on the ballet who has no chance) i will go for is bush. kerry is wrong and if people took the time themself like i do and actually researched the truth, they would understand me rather thinking i don't know what i am talking about. i have asked for reasons from everyone why they choose kerry so i can show them where they may be wrong.

5th--i hear people say that but if you think those people in iraq are not happy we are there (and i mean the ones that want peace and freedom) you are crazy. i for one could careless for any of them for not fighting themself and ould rather we kill them all and just take it over like countries are supposed to do when at war, but america just rebuilds them like they did for germany and japan and just about the whole world who needs help. that's just me. on the other hand we are are rebuilding them and showing them they too can be free. to me it sounds lik a catch 22 from what you said. if they don't want us to help them, they want to still be the enemy because of their dictatorship and hate for us. this would then make my plan sound better just killing them all right? you tell me...

6th---there are current way of dealing with problems and america is dealing with them. lets look at th countries not daling with them. and lets look at the countries that were taking bribes and running a scandal. sure it's easy to say america is failing when we were held up by the united nation and such and didnt get help from the countries that were supposed to be our allies (why would they help when they were making billions under the table). we have not been in iraq that long considering what has been done already. i would bet that most of the posters here havent a clue what has been done for the iraqi's. the dont' know the positives lthat are happening such as th schools being built and much more than that. why? because they fail to look at the facts and listen to just negatives. the media is not innocent either. but if you actually done research or anyone, they would see that things are getting done. i would also like to know when people say things are not getting done right like kerry said, what is not being done right? how can that assumption be made? is everything supposed to be done in 1 year? are we not fighting terrorists from iran and other terrorist harboring countries? why do you think these countries are sending in troops to fight and kill us? i sometimes think the majority think we are just fight the citizens of iraq or they are the ones that are killing americans. that's so false and their attitude and comments in support of kerry regardless are false but worste hurt this country and will be the reason if we fail. that is a plain fact and the democrats have done nothing for america positive. they tell the world we are rong fo going into iraq. and the blind support them. imo, forget it, i wont say.

and the last comment---you are not at war. canada is not in iraq helping. they are not in afganistan either.

those are all some very good points there. I do understand where you are coming from. And i do wish Canada was helping more, because America is Canada's ally, and thus we should be out there with you in more force.. but im sorry there ARE Canadians out there.. my best friends's cousin is in Kabul as we speak. serving for the Canadian army.

what my post mainly wanted to say was the even though it may be just dreaming.. war will not solve things. Not for good. mabye there is no other way sure.

but im just saying humanity has always fought wars in the past to solve issues. Where does that leave us now? fighting more wars.

[Schism]

You people are so short-sighted. You think we are in a war. We're not. We are in a conflict against a religion and we cannot win. This is not a war against a country, it's a a fight against an extremist global faction of a religion that we cannot win against. Who the hell do you think will sit down on the other side of the table when "they" surrender? Who the hell are we fighting against? A nation? No. Sorry. This isn't WWI or WWII. And this isn't WWIII either. It's a futile attempt at trying to control something that we cannot control.

On our side we are saying - moms and dads, send your 18 year old children to war because there is some vague terrorist threat against us that we must fight. We're not sure who it is or were it's coming from, but we still must fight.

On their side they are grabbing 12 year old children and saying you are starving, we will feed you and your family. We will teach you how to honor God and teach you that dying for Him is the most blessed thing that you can possibly do with you life. You will go to heaven simply by killing the infidels. And your family will be blessed.

You cannot fight this sort of mentality. We need to separate ourselves from this crap entirely and become self-sufficient. Or continue dying in a pointless struggle.

I'm shocked that most of you don't seem to understand this. And I'm scared. I will would not ever allow my children to fight this ridiculus war. And I would die to protect them from it. And that is what it will eventually come to. Just wait and see.

[ME BIGGD01]

You people are so short-sighted. You think we are in a war. We're not. We are in a conflict against a religion and we cannot win. This is not a war against a country, it's a a fight against an extremist global faction of a religion that we cannot win against. Who the hell do you think will sit down on the other side of the table when "they" surrender? Who the hell are we fighting against? A nation? No. Sorry. This isn't WWI or WWII. And this isn't WWIII either. It's a futile attempt at trying to control something that we cannot control.

On our side we are saying - moms and dads, send your 18 year old children to war because there is some vague terrorist threat against us that we must fight. We're not sure who it is or were it's coming from, but we still must fight.

On their side they are grabbing 12 year old children and saying you are starving, we will feed you and your family. We will teach you how to honor God and teach you that dying for Him is the most blessed thing that you can possibly do with you life. You will go to heaven simply by killing the infidels. And your family will be blessed.

You cannot fight this sort of mentality. We need to separate ourselves from this crap entirely and become self-sufficient. Or continue dying in a pointless struggle.

I'm shocked that most of you don't seem to understand this. And I'm scared. I will would not ever allow my children to fight this ridiculus war. And I would die to protect them from it. And that is what it will eventually come to. Just wait and see.
i disagree that we can not win. people don't want the truth though because it's horrible. i will tell you that we are at war. we are at war with the countries that do this and allow and support it. we could win this by destrying them. not all muslims believe in this extremist crap. but even in saudi arabia, they are taught to hate. these are the countries we need to destroy or until they realize they can not get away with it. if theyw ant to hate us and jews or who ever, thats fine but if they want to fight and allow terrorism, we should destroy them completely.

[Alexis SC430]

Hahahahahahaa... odd how I feel less loserish (new word) every time I come here! I wonder why that is? :D

Jesus H Christ... some of those replies are damn near the length of a doctoral thesis! Luckily they are WAY interesting! (On a completely unrelated note, I really wish that little "ghey" icon were still available.) :p:

[sits back to watch all these really cool people share their incredibly insightful policatal views which shall be read by Bush, Kerry, Congress, et cetera and, thusly, alter the course of politics in America]

[Schism]

i disagree that we can not win. people don't want the truth though because it's horrible. i will tell you that we are at war. we are at war with the countries that do this and allow and support it. we could win this by destrying them. not all muslims believe in this extremist crap. but even in saudi arabia, they are taught to hate. these are the countries we need to destroy or until they realize they can not get away with it. if theyw ant to hate us and jews or who ever, thats fine but if they want to fight and allow terrorism, we should destroy them completely.
You, BIGGD01, are precisely the type of person that I would reluctantly, but necessarily, put a bullet in your head when you come to my house to get my children to fight this insane war. You are as insane as this war is and you have been brainwashed as much as the extremists have been. This is what scares me so much. So many people think the way that you do. But not all of us. I will stand and fight for what I believe in, and I will protect my family even if that means killing another American. I'd like to know how you feel about that. Is that wrong? Are we free as long as it's what congress or the president decides, or are we free to make our own decisions individually?

Personally, I'm a hard core American. I am free to make my own decsions and you better not dare cross me. Or you will pay the price. Bring it. :D

[TheMaster]

"You think we are at war. We're not. We are in a conflict against a religion and we cannot win."

I strongly disagree. I agree with you BIGG. We ARE a nation at war. A war that started right here at home, but a war that we can and must win. This war is not Christianity vs Islam. This war is freedom vs terrorism. Muslim extremists attacked us on 9/11, not Islam itself. But I agree with Schism that this is not a war against any one country. Because al-Qaida does not represent one country. They are spread across the globe recruiting new members. But we cannot be told that this is not a war and we cannot win. Then all American soldiers fighting the War on Terror overseas will be discouraged. We can win this war, and we will. Some Muslim nations are on our side including Jordan, the UAE, Kuwait, Turkey. As BIGG said, not all Muslims are extremists. It may take a long time, years or even decades, but terrorism will be defeated. I would not send anyone to go fight this war, but I believe that those fighting it now can win. After all we must.

[ME BIGGD01]

You, BIGGD01, are precisely the type of person that I would reluctantly, but necessarily, put a bullet in your head when you come to my house to get my children to fight this insane war. You are as insane as this war is and you have been brainwashed as much as the extremists have been. This is what scares me so much. So many people think the way that you do. But not all of us. I will stand and fight for what I believe in, and I will protect my family even if that means killing another American. I'd like to know how you feel about that. Is that wrong? Are we free as long as it's what congress or the president decides, or are we free to make our own decisions individually?

Personally, I'm a hard core American. I am free to make my own decsions and you better not dare cross me. Or you will pay the price. Bring it. :D
First of all I don't really understand what you are trying to say but you contradict yourself in the statement. How would I take your children to fight any war? If you say I am insane, I would like to know why you say that instead of just hearing the comment. That is all anyone ever does around here. You say I am brainwashed? I beg to differ. I say you are scared and are not facing reality because of it. First, there isn’t a draft so no one is making your children fight. If they were to join the military, you bet your ass they better fight. Now you say you are a die hard American? Please give me the meaning of die hard? From your statement you wouldn’t fight for you country. You think this is a religious war which is what they would like it to be. When America starts taking peoples right to religion away, and then says that. I will bring Hitler up again. If it was up to Hitler, he would have it that everyone has blonde hair, blue eyes. There would be no birth defects, nothing wrong with any of the people or they would die. This was his belief and the soldier’s beliefs and it was to be done. Would you say that was not worth fighting for?

Now let me ask you this. If we don't fight, what do you think would happen? Honestly, since I’m r=the insane one. Do you think that we would live in peace as we were on 9/10? Do you think that the enemies would not be planning on the next attack? Do you think that these extremist wouldn’t want us to bleed to death and die? Do you think they would shrink and not get more powerful if we don't fight? You threaten me with a bullet or another American but you fail to see that this isn’t a game or some parking ticket being given out. This is a war weather you want to face it or not. And if we don't fight, you just might be out with your family at Disney world and all of a sudden boom. Yeah, gods forbid but do you think that god would prevent it form happening when it was supposed to be us preventing it from happening. The only time we will have peace is when we are dead. It’s called heaven. Here we have to live a clean life and try to do the least amount of evil as you can. Funny you are willing to kill but not an enemy. I am insane.

[ME BIGGD01]

I know I have been up all night working so It's easy for me to miss some things such as, the green party pic under your name. I find it amusing that I am being called insane by you now. Isn't there a tree to hug or something? I have seen it all here at GM,. This time its Organic:D (yes I am just shaking my head)

[Schism]

You have totally missed my point. As I thought you would. So here it is plain and simple. I will not allow my children to die for a cause that I don't believe in or that I don't think would matter. Period. That should be simple enough.

I beleive that we should not be in this "war". It's a farce, all propaganda, and will not ever accomplish anything. And I am talking about the Iraq conflict at this point, and nothing else.

Please tell me, how do you see this "war" ending? We aren't even fighting the Iragi people at this point, mainly just the insurgients from other countries. An infinite supply or insurgients. They will keep coming. They are scum and don't care if they kill women and children and deliberatly mix with crowds of innocents just to raise the death count when we attack them.

There are no rules. There is no specific enemy, and you cannot just wipe out a country because there are people in it that are against us.

But you seem intent on wiping out whole regions no matter what. LOL. Thank God you have no say in our military policy. Get a grip dude. You are saying the same thing as we need to wipe out all of those damn Methodists so nuke the whole damn state and who cares that you will be killing Catholics and Mormans and whatever.

I am willing to kill as a last resort to protect my family and my country. If that means killing a a foreign force that is attacking American soil than so be it. I will be beside my children defending our nation. If it means attacking a friggen religion that spans the globe and is only more likely to attack us if we screw with them unecessarily then forget it. I'm am not part of anyone's herd. I am an American and I am a free-thinker and I will decide what I and my children fight for. Period. End of story.

There is really no need for further discussion here. If I feel my family or my country is threatened then I will be with my children fighting. If I feel that someone is trying to send my children to fight and die for a pointless war then I will die defending my family. It's really very simple. What don't you understand?

[JIMINATOR]

Well, there is a very good reason why I cannot vote for bush....





http://tinypic.com/aw9qb

[ME BIGGD01]

You have totally missed my point. As I thought you would. So here it is plain and simple. I will not allow my children to die for a cause that I don't believe in or that I don't think would matter. Period. That should be simple enough.

I beleive that we should not be in this "war". It's a farce, all propaganda, and will not ever accomplish anything. And I am talking about the Iraq conflict at this point, and nothing else.

Please tell me, how do you see this "war" ending? We aren't even fighting the Iragi people at this point, mainly just the insurgients from other countries. An infinite supply or insurgients. They will keep coming. They are scum and don't care if they kill women and children and deliberatly mix with crowds of innocents just to raise the death count when we attack them.

There are no rules. There is no specific enemy, and you cannot just wipe out a country because there are people in it that are against us.

But you seem intent on wiping out whole regions no matter what. LOL. Thank God you have no say in our military policy. Get a grip dude. You are saying the same thing as we need to wipe out all of those damn Methodists so nuke the whole damn state and who cares that you will be killing Catholics and Mormans and whatever.

I am willing to kill as a last resort to protect my family and my country. If that means killing a a foreign force that is attacking American soil than so be it. I will be beside my children defending our nation. If it means attacking a friggen religion that spans the globe and is only more likely to attack us if we screw with them unecessarily then forget it. I'm am not part of anyone's herd. I am an American and I am a free-thinker and I will decide what I and my children fight for. Period. End of story.

There is really no need for further discussion here. If I feel my family or my country is threatened then I will be with my children fighting. If I feel that someone is trying to send my children to fight and die for a pointless war then I will die defending my family. It's really very simple. What don't you understand?
yeah, i missed your point alright. and you say you are glad i am not incharge. i think the world would be safer if i was in charge rather you being in charge. atleast i wouldnt ignore the problem. you say you would fight if your family is threatened? why? they will just keep coming. i see your point and i hope your kids don't go if they they don't want to. you will not think for them when they are old enough. i wonder what kind of war you would be willing to fight for. can you imagine if the people who died for this country thought like you. as far as how i think it will end, i am not sure. my way would be quicker but not realistic. maybe just maybe iraq will be a sucess and the governments will stop the terrorism. and themiddle east will be full of peace and flowers will grow in the deserts and we all will hold hands. i doubt it and in away i agree with what you are saying. they will keep coming. so the only answer is my way. they won't come anymore my way. consider it like cancer. lets say the cancer is connected to your testicles. do you a-leave the cancer because it will keep growing or coming back, or do you b-just keep cuuting it out everytime it grows back, or do you c-cut your balls off and pevent it from ever growing back. i would say c and so would most doctors. now lets look at the death tolls. in 10 years, of not fighting more people would die that would add up to the amount of a complete nation. why waste time? i am sure if we elimated one nation of these scumbags, the others would comply quickly. it's the only way to get their attention. it wont happend though. no matter who is president. we will keep killing them and they will kill some of us but you are right, they will continue. and if that's why you wouldnt bother fighting because you feel it would not end, i kinda understand you. but not doing anything is not the answer to keep people like you and your family safe. i guess all we are doing now is guarding the situation but eventually something may get by and kill a million people here. no matter who is president or who is in charge. this can happend. no human can be 100% all the time. 1 error is all it takes. if i am insane for wanting to prevent that by saying better them than us, well i guess i am. we both have similiar interests. but for a chance of being blown up or dirty bambed, i just want to avoid it today and tommorow for my family, your family and every american family. i see no other option but what i suggest.

[DiTomasso]

Well, there is a very good reason why I cannot vote for bush....





http://tinypic.com/aw9qb
:thumbs: :D

[Mad Fox]

WOW these post are to long shotren them up and get to the point plesae!!!!!

[T I K]

where is the humor in these? i think they are stupid. did you get them from moveon.org?


Maybe when I used the word "humor", that was stretching it just a tad bit....... Now that you asked, (BTW thanks for asking) maybe it would have been better stated "True nature bites" just "Some" kidding there Bigg :rolleyes:


And as to your comment: "i think they are stupid", that is your opinion and you are very well entitled to it!

And to your question: "did you get them from moveon.org?" That answer would be, LINKY (http://www.elite.net/~runner/jennifers/no.htm#E)


Still no offense was intended then, as no offense is intended now Bigg!!

I not only respect you and your right to your views and opinions (and to voice them) as I hope you also respect mine, and others to voice theirs, I applaud that you put voice/word to them!! I personaly see rights/wrongs, and merits/faults, on many of these hard, tough, difficult and deadly issues!

My view on some things have changed because of the open disscussion, just such as this one on GM! But I know its ludicrous, (and i hope you do too) to think the any one man, wether that be you, me, Kerry or GWBush or any Govt. or anyone for that matter is right all the time, or can have all the right answers or solutions.

Thats where even the most divergent of minded people, (unless they are unconcious or brain dead, heh thats about the way I feel right now) "can" benefit from each other, through these type of open disscussions or even possibly achieve some enlightenment they didnt have before!

As was said, one man working alone may accomplish little, as to where two or more working together may accomplish alot! This collective, of thoughts, ideas, and knowledge of the many, should and can best serve us all !! And as I see it, we as a people, as a country, and as a world or even as human kind, "that" joint collective will accomplish little without it !!

[Schism]

Okay. I think we are at the point where we just agree to disagree. No point in further debate. :)



yeah, i missed your point alright. and you say you are glad i am not incharge. i think the world would be safer if i was in charge rather you being in charge. atleast i wouldnt ignore the problem. you say you would fight if your family is threatened? why? they will just keep coming. i see your point and i hope your kids don't go if they they don't want to. you will not think for them when they are old enough. i wonder what kind of war you would be willing to fight for. can you imagine if the people who died for this country thought like you. as far as how i think it will end, i am not sure. my way would be quicker but not realistic. maybe just maybe iraq will be a sucess and the governments will stop the terrorism. and themiddle east will be full of peace and flowers will grow in the deserts and we all will hold hands. i doubt it and in away i agree with what you are saying. they will keep coming. so the only answer is my way. they won't come anymore my way. consider it like cancer. lets say the cancer is connected to your testicles. do you a-leave the cancer because it will keep growing or coming back, or do you b-just keep cuuting it out everytime it grows back, or do you c-cut your balls off and pevent it from ever growing back. i would say c and so would most doctors. now lets look at the death tolls. in 10 years, of not fighting more people would die that would add up to the amount of a complete nation. why waste time? i am sure if we elimated one nation of these scumbags, the others would comply quickly. it's the only way to get their attention. it wont happend though. no matter who is president. we will keep killing them and they will kill some of us but you are right, they will continue. and if that's why you wouldnt bother fighting because you feel it would not end, i kinda understand you. but not doing anything is not the answer to keep people like you and your family safe. i guess all we are doing now is guarding the situation but eventually something may get by and kill a million people here. no matter who is president or who is in charge. this can happend. no human can be 100% all the time. 1 error is all it takes. if i am insane for wanting to prevent that by saying better them than us, well i guess i am. we both have similiar interests. but for a chance of being blown up or dirty bambed, i just want to avoid it today and tommorow for my family, your family and every american family. i see no other option but what i suggest.

[CaptainKeyes]

if you think your family is safer, when we are getting attacked on our soil... your a complete loon.
And as far as im concerned, we were attacked here on our soil by terrorists. But how soon you forget.
pacifism solves less then war.

[EdoG]

well people, i need to try to get some sleep. only a few of us managed to make this thread over 5 pages long:D. maybe we need a hobby:) .
:rofl: Good points BIGG :thumbs: :jammin:

[EXEcution]

But children did not deserve to die when we nuked Japan.

[Mad Fox]

Well who really does deserve to die?

[EXEcution]

Not children.

[solid snake295]

what are you like 10 years old? bush is for the war? like bush wants the war? isnt it past your bedtime? why don't you and your parents take a trip to the mid east. anywhere... and walk around for awhile and see if anything happends to you. what do you think we started this war? do your homework and get off the computer.


edit--i just saw you are from canada. you must live in the legal pot smoking area.
slow down there captain-f**king-america. how about you do YOUR homework. first of all, i'm not 10 years old. if you would take 2 seconds to look that up you would know that. Bush isnt for the war? really, who decided to send the troops over seas? was it the one armed man? and yes i would take a trip to the mid east if it wasnt currenty being invaded. i dont think i would have too much trouble walking around there, not if i was carrying my tim hortons mug and my back pack with the canadian flag on it. that brings up another thing, why arnt americans allowed to slap an american flag on what ever they want? is it because people will see it and think "hey this is a good oppertunity to test out the sights on my new rocket launcher!"


what do you think we started this war? can you please try that again, i didnt quite understand the question.
also, i never knew niagara falls was a legal "pot smoking area"
maybe if you "did your homework" you would know that it most certainly is not.



but of course everything i say is wrong because i dont have links to snopes.com that prove that im right.:rolleyes:

[solid snake295]

and what pisses me off the most is he or she is from canada. a country that isnt doing anything on the wr on terror. they just let the terrorist pass right through to enter here.
what pisses me off is that ive been on these boards for a year and a half and you still dont know my gender! :doh:
living right on the boarder i would know for a fact that we dont let people pass right thought to USA, at the main bridge in niagara falls it takes AT LEAST an hour to get across, every ID is throughly checked and if they are the least bit suspicious they are sent off to the side to have there car raped by the border patrol. and dont even try to blame it on canada that terrorists slipped through, on each bridge there is a canadian check point and an american check point at each end.

[Ra\/en]

and what pisses me off the most is he or she is from canada. a country that isnt doing anything on the wr on terror. they just let the terrorist pass right through to enter here.




biggd... try reading my post earlier.. i KNOW somebody personally from the canadian army serving in kabul.

jackass

[ME BIGGD01]

slow down there captain-f**king-america. how about you do YOUR homework. first of all, i'm not 10 years old. if you would take 2 seconds to look that up you would know that. Bush isnt for the war? really, who decided to send the troops over seas? was it the one armed man? and yes i would take a trip to the mid east if it wasnt currenty being invaded. i dont think i would have too much trouble walking around there, not if i was carrying my tim hortons mug and my back pack with the canadian flag on it. that brings up another thing, why arnt americans allowed to slap an american flag on what ever they want? is it because people will see it and think "hey this is a good oppertunity to test out the sights on my new rocket launcher!"

can you please try that again, i didnt quite understand the question.
also, i never knew niagara falls was a legal "pot smoking area"
maybe if you "did your homework" you would know that it most certainly is not.



but of course everything i say is wrong because i dont have links to snopes.com that prove that im right.:rolleyes:

your oppinion is that bush started this war. you are fxcking wrong. it was those camel jockeys who started this war. you make it seem as if bush wants war. you have no clue of leadership. keep to your canadian politics. your statements make no sense and are bias. stfu before i slap an american flag on you. as far as homework, i am sure i know what is going on far more than you. every sentence you made tells me you havent a clue. go take a trip in the mid east. maybe i will get the chance to add your video to my collection.

exe--yes it's sad that children would be killed but at least they wont grow to learn to kill americans. look at it like an abortion but after birth :thumbs:

[EXEcution]

OK i hope you don't teach your children to hate either.

[ME BIGGD01]

and what pisses me off the most is he or she is from canada. a country that isnt doing anything on the wr on terror. they just let the terrorist pass right through to enter here.




biggd... try reading my post earlier.. i KNOW somebody personally from the canadian army serving in kabul.

jackass
raven, are you an idiot? you are calling me a jackass because you read someones quote on me? are you an idiot? i hope one day i can meet you in person to beat the **** out of you for calling me a jackass. you canadian piece of trash. you say your friend is there fighting? big freaking deal you putz. your country is not there you jerk off. i will not forget your comment and if i do meet you, i will remind you of it. punk!

[SASQUATCH]

raven, are you an idiot? you are calling me a jackass because you read someones quote on me? are you an idiot? i hope one day i can meet you in person to beat the **** out of you for calling me a jackass. you canadian piece of trash. you say your friend is there fighting? big freaking deal you putz. your country is not there you jerk off. i will not forget your comment and if i do meet you, i will remind you of it. punk!

DOH - LMAO

Easy big guy. . . .

[ME BIGGD01]

screw him. he is a toughguy behind his keyboard. i didnt attack him personally and he wants to call me names. i won't let people call me names. not only does he make the mistake with repeating his comment, i am the jack ass. i have to walk away from this for a little bit.

[ME BIGGD01]

OK i hope you don't teach your children to hate either.

exe, are you retarded? seriously, you are saying that i teach hate? where does it show that? becase of my war strategy? that teaches hate? does america hate japan?

[SASQUATCH]

screw him. he is a toughguy behind his keyboard. i didnt attack him personally and he wants to call me names. i won't let people call me names. not only does he make the mistake with repeating his comment, i am the jack ass. i have to walk away from this for a little bit.

I hear you man...

I just find it so funny when you Threaten them lol. . . .

It feels like school when you really want to get someone you wait for 3:00 PM after school. lol

Poor Raven watch out for 3PM after school. j/k lol

[solid snake295]

your oppinion is that bush started this war. you are fxcking wrong. it was those camel jockeys who started this war. you make it seem as if bush wants war. you have no clue of leadership. keep to your canadian politics. your statements make no sense and are bias. stfu before i slap an american flag on you. as far as homework, i am sure i know what is going on far more than you. every sentence you made tells me you havent a clue. go take a trip in the mid east. maybe i will get the chance to add your video to my collection.

exe--yes it's sad that children would be killed but at least they wont grow to learn to kill americans. look at it like an abortion but after birth :thumbs:
sure bigg... sure.
did i say that bush started the war? no. did i say that he sent troops over seas? yes! how do my statments make no sence and are bias? i think thats just a BS excuse that you made up because your not man enough to say "you know what, your right"
also, i think some of your comments are being a tad racist. please think before you post :thumbs:

[ME BIGGD01]

solid, i don't care what you think. why don't you just reread what you orignially posted. that's what i hav issues with. does bush=war=evil remind you? don't bs yourself.

[solid snake295]

people dieing for a cause that could have been avoided is bad. agreed?
i didnt say that bush started the war but he sure as hell isnt ending it.
i would rather have someone is as your president that dosent think that killing is the only way to win.
and as a canadian i do have an oppinion as to what is going on in the USA.
heres a quote that i think you should read:


Americans should never underestimate the constant pressure on Canada which the mere presence of the United States has produced. We're different people from you and we're different people because of you. Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is effected by every twitch and grunt. It should not therefore be expected that this kind of nation, this Canada, should project itself as a mirror image of the United States.
- (Prime Minister) Pierre Elliot Trudeau

[ME BIGGD01]

people dieing for a cause that could have been avoided is bad. agreed?
i didnt say that bush started the war but he sure as hell isnt ending it.
i would rather have someone is as your president that dosent think that killing is the only way to win.
and as a canadian i do have an oppinion as to what is going on in the USA.
heres a quote that i think you should read:
well maybe some terrorism will happen in canda that will change your mind. and people that die for a cause is good. it shows bravery and true honor that anyone is willing to die for what they believe in. like i am willing to die for what i believe in. you say it could be avoided but so can anything after it has happend. the thing your kind to understand is you can not reason with these people. get it through your skull, we choose war as the last option. you people that talk about winning have no clue about winning. you talk about the wrong way to win but never have any other suggestion to win. lets here it solid. how do you win this? i stick to my cancer analogy. as far as i am concerned, no one but americans should be in this thread. start a canadian thread and talk about hockey.

[Ra\/en]

and the last comment---you are not at war. canada is not in iraq helping. they are not in afganistan either.


you said this... you can go check back on the thread... i dont really care..

and you can personally threaten me all you want, maybe i asked for it.

i just want you to understand that even if Canada is not directly involved with the Fighting in iraq and afganistan, they are THERE.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3073903.stm
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/27/cdnsoldiers030327

look, i understand that canada does not support the war, but they are helping in peacekeeping as well as support roles.

i also, understand that almost all are not in direct COMBAT.


its just some of the things you say biggd.. do offend some people.

[solid snake295]

as far as i am concerned, no one but americans should be in this thread. start a canadian thread and talk about hockey.
i though you were smarter than that bigg. have it your way i wont post anymore in this thread.

theres always more then one way to win... unless its a pie eating contest...


P.S. i dont even like hockey! :ha:

[ME BIGGD01]

YEAH THERE IS LOTS OF WAYS TO WIN. YOU SAID THAT.

name another

[Mad Fox]

Guys c'mon take it easy......


Each is entitled to their own opinion! Name calling is slightly childish.


And my honest opinion is that It no longer matters who started the war, why it was sarted, or who joined. Right now what truely matters is what we can do to effectively end the military operations in Iraq, without jeopardizing the stablitiy of the country and the growth of democracy. Unfortuantly Iraq doesn't have a history of democarcy so it may take awhile. So unforuntaly some sort of peace keeping/ police force is going to be needed there. Neither canidate(according to my satifaction) has come up witha fesible and reasonable plan to do so.

I'm not sure who said this but there are other ways to effictively fight the war on terror. I don't believe that the war on teror can be effictivly fought by conventional mean. Basically its an ideological war between a backwards interrpretation of the Koran and the ideologly of a slowly crumbly western philosphy. to win this war a nation must end funding of terror groups. Also western gov't need to overthrow extremist go'vt by getting the ppl of the nation to rise up on their own.


*** excuse my spelling

[Slice]

well maybe some terrorism will happen in canda that will change your mind. and people that die for a cause is good. it shows bravery and true honor that anyone is willing to die for what they believe in. like i am willing to die for what i believe in. you say it could be avoided but so can anything after it has happend. the thing your kind to understand is you can not reason with these people. get it through your skull, we choose war as the last option. you people that talk about winning have no clue about winning. you talk about the wrong way to win but never have any other suggestion to win. lets here it solid. how do you win this? i stick to my cancer analogy. as far as i am concerned, no one but americans should be in this thread. start a canadian thread and talk about hockey.I couldn't disagree with you more. How can you say that if you aren't American you don't belong in this thread? That is a completely ignorant statement. Terrorism is a GLOBAL issue. War is also a GLOBAL issue. The outcome affects everyone in some way or another. Oh and if you want my reason for voting Kerry instead of Bush, it's because I ****ing can. We can sling all the horsesh1t reasons back and forth all we want about one candidates ideas and policys and plans but what it really boils down to is who you like better. It also helps if you can take command of the English language and not mumble and make up words and names in your speeches. Kerry is a much more polished and educated person than Bush will ever be. So I guess you could say I would rather have an educated person running our country rather than the village idiot. If you deny that Bush is not as smart as Kerry, let me direct you to Tik's post of those sound clips of Bush. Although they were edited and sampled back together he simply sounds like a complete ass and is an embarrassment to this Country.

[Pure_Evil]

well maybe some terrorism will happen in canda that will change your mind. and people that die for a cause is good. it shows bravery and true honor that anyone is willing to die for what they believe in. like i am willing to die for what i believe in. you say it could be avoided but so can anything after it has happend. the thing your kind to understand is you can not reason with these people. get it through your skull, we choose war as the last option. you people that talk about winning have no clue about winning. you talk about the wrong way to win but never have any other suggestion to win. lets here it solid. how do you win this? i stick to my cancer analogy. as far as i am concerned, no one but americans should be in this thread. start a canadian thread and talk about hockey.
Did you ever wonder why Canada isn't a target? Could it be because they take care of their own and don't stick their nose where it doesn't belong? At least Canada takes care of their own! Give then some credit!

Once and for all, this war has nothing to do with the fight againsst terror. until we went into Iraq, there was no evidence that connected Alqeda to Iraq, so deal with it. Now that we're in Iraq, Alqeda has come in to kill more Americans.

GG GWB :down:

Also, after the debate, Kerry passed Bush in the Neewsweek poll for the election, not just the debate. :thumbs:

[SASQUATCH]

Ok Bigg's your next response awaits us. LOL

[Slice]

Did you ever wonder why Canada isn't a target? Could it be because they take care of their own and don't stick their nose where it doesn't belong? At least Canada takes care of their own! Give then some credit!

Once and for all, this war has nothing to do with the fight againsst terror. until we went into Iraq, there was no evidence that connected Alqeda to Iraq, so deal with it. Now that we're in Iraq, Alqeda has come in to kill more Americans.

GG GWB :down:

Also, after the debate, Kerry passed Bush in the Neewsweek poll for the election, not just the debate. :thumbs:
I agree they deserve a lot of credit! Canadians are completely different than the US and we should learn something from them. Ask a Canadian if they lock their doors, to my surprise most don't. This to me is amazing, but because of the fact that they trust their fellow brother I have great respect for them. To me, they are more advanced than we are as a society.

[SASQUATCH]

I agree they deserve a lot of credit! Canadians are completely different than the US and we should learn something from them. Ask a Canadian if they lock their doors, to my surprise most don't. This to me is amazing, but because of the fact that they trust their fellow brother I have great respect for them. To me, they are more advanced than we are as a society.

They also have better healthcare. . . .

Keep this in mind that we carry a big responsibilty being a world power and 90% of the time we are always there first.

[Pure_Evil]

They also have better healthcare. . . .

Keep this in mind that we carry a big responsibilty being a world power and 90% of the time we are always there first.

I rememberwhen lasic eye surgery first started in the USA, and my wife :rolleyes: wanted it, $3000 per eye :eek:

She drove 5 hours North into Canada, paid $1500 cash for both eyes and the hotel stay. the doctor even called her a few times over the next few months to check up on her. There are things that they do better up North, which is why health care and prescription medicine is such a huge part of our election.

Kerry has promised to open up purchacing power for prescription medicine, that's one place he beats Bush.

[SASQUATCH]

Ok let’s begin this debate with a question from A to D

What would you do if you were president with the problem at Iraq the way it is now?

A. Let Slice and Bigg’s make our decisions for our country. LOL j/k

B. Negotiate and settlement by offering them training and providing them with
resource to help there country and then gradually pull our arm forces out.

C. Pull our troops out now and let them resolve there problems on there own.

D. None of the above

Please only insert one letter on this thread without any comments please . LOL

Thank you

[Slice]

The answer is A ofcourse. I might have a black eye and a few more broken ribs at the end but I still love Bigg D even though we completely disagree on some things. :)

[SASQUATCH]

The answer is A ofcourse. I might have a black eye and a few more broken ribs at the end but I still love Bigg D even though we completely disagree on some things. :)

LMAO_LMAO

That was funny Slice good one lol.

[T I K]

The answer is A ofcourse. I might have a black eye and a few more broken ribs at the end but I still love Bigg D even though we completely disagree on some things. :)

Finally, ok its settled, but which one of you is the Pres. and which one of you is going to be the Skanky First Lady ??? :D


I just couldnt help that, not 2 sry :p:

[ME BIGGD01]

I can not continue in this thread anymore. I can not control myself and get irritated too much. I fly off the handle because we get to express our feelings but I can not get my point across to what I actually mean or want to say. I will say this thread ruined my day and with that I realize how dumb it is and wrong we all are discussing something that will piss others off. We might all have different opinions but I am sure if we had the choice we all want the same thing. I feel people do not see my point and just take me as some person who wants nations wiped out our people killed which is not what I want. I can not explain myself so I should not discuss anything in this nature. I have different views on war and I will leave it at that. I just can not understand others views on war and peace and the way they think it is done. It just doesn’t seem realistic to me. I have different views and I will believe what I believe in as you all will. I was wrong to take this so personal but that's who I am. You can dislike my views as I dislike some of yours but I guess it all comes down to how one lives their life and their experiences. I will vote for bush, some will also and some will vote for Kerry. The funny thing is neither are good for the country and that I am sure most of us agree on. I have so much more I could say regarding Kerry but at this point will not because it won't matter. I guess we will just have to see who wins and becomes the next president.

[SASQUATCH]

Being diplomatic especially this type of topic or at this forum is the best way to point out our views because it is the only way to show reverence to others. It helps and provide various opinions that one expresses. I tell you I never said I was good at it but I learn from it and try not to make the same mistakes and what I have learn being at this forum is how others may react because I got the honor of interacting with so many at this forum.

It’s good to be here because of the good people we have here, young and old.

Thumbs up for GM. . . . .

[UZI]

The only indicator of who wins the debates, campaigns, agree with the President's decisions on Iraq or the economy or not etc etc etc is when the American people hold a free and fair election. This is the way it has been for our Nation for over 200 years. The only true score will be the electorial votes score. The rest is just politics.

Polls are for the simple minded. They are mostly bias and mostly used to influence people who cannot think for themselves. I will take a free democracy using free elections over polls any day.

This stupid poll stuff is about as rediculus as the AP trying to pick the best NCAA basketball team at the very beginning of the season. Their record sucks. Can we all at least agree that the next dufus who starts a tread based on polls has to sit in the corner and wear a dunce hat?

[UZI]

I bet the ancient Greeks are laughing their a$$ off at us.

[T I K]

Being diplomatic especially this type of topic or at this forum is the best way to point out our views because it is the only way to show reverence to others. It helps and provide various opinions that one expresses. I tell you I never said I was good at it but I learn from it and try not to make the same mistakes and what I have learn being at this forum is how others may react because I got the honor of interacting with so many at this forum.

It’s good to be here because of the good people we have here, young and old.

Thumbs up for GM. . . . .




I couldnt agree with you more (t)here!! Well said SAS !! :thumbs:

[JIMINATOR]

did someone say free and fair election? Like as if the people's choice gets elected into office? That is total BS. We are saddled with the electoral college, which was understandable way back when there was no means to have the entire population vote at the same time and gather up the results, but is pretty stoopid now.

[JIMINATOR]

I can not continue in this thread anymore. I can not control myself and get irritated too much. I fly off the handle because we get to express our feelings but I can not get my point across to what I actually mean or want to say. I will say this thread ruined my day and with that I realize how dumb it is and wrong we all are discussing something that will piss others off.

no, you have ruined your own day. what you see here is just a bunch of words, and you are allowing them to soak into your skull and influence you and your emotions. The ongoing threats from you to beat someone's ass are way over the top and what I would expect from a child bully. Is that how you react to every bad situation in life? With violent confrontation? Then yes, I can see why you like bush. And if we can boost the military and some oil contracts, so much the better. violence is not the answer.

[UZI]

did someone say free and fair election? Like as if the people's choice gets elected into office? That is total BS. We are saddled with the electoral college, which was understandable way back when there was no means to have the entire population vote at the same time and gather up the results, but is pretty stoopid now.

Our founding fathers were smarter than you give them credit for. Another key reason for the Electorial College was to prevent heavily populated states from dictating their values upon the nation. That is why each state has only two senate representatives. Having lived in CA for some years, I thank our founding fathers for this great process of democracy which prevents populated states like CA and NY from screwing everything up for the rest of us.

[OPTIMOOSE]

HEY BIGD - I say you go to war over there, you are so pro war - i think you should go and volunteer your services. You and bush should be side by side over there..

Enjoy yourself.

[Rivers]

That is a pretty disgraceful statement and also a racist one. You are acting like Bush did during the debate, are you flaring your nostrals right now and steam blowing out of your ears?

LoL I saw that and I thought it was pretty funny.....well it was kinda.....I was expecting like Conan to make fun of that the next day or the whole debate in general.

[ME BIGGD01]

HEY BIGD - I say you go to war over there, you are so pro war - i think you should go and volunteer your services. You and bush should be side by side over there..

Enjoy yourself.
do you think i wouldnt go if i was asked? and dont be such a retard who comes here once in a blue moon to make a dumb comment. just because i am for this war and support my presidents reasoning for fighting terror there instead of here does not make me a person who likes war.


and jim, violence must be fought with violence. you show me where a talk solved a war. if it was up to the democrats, we wouldnt of even fought world war 2. and yes, if someone attacks me, i will attack them. why should i change my way because of the internet. i am the way i am and if others don't agree with that, tough didly on them.

and as far as bush getting mad during the debates, who could blame him. you people believe what you want to. i know the difference between bs and the truth. none of you kerry supporters actually looked into what he wants to do and how he wants to do it. i did, and that's what makes me mad. the attacks on me are like the attacks on bush. they are due to the lack of knowledge of the people here at gm that want to come into this thread and post as if they know the facts. from what i have seen, no one here does. i see constant insults because of the difference of oppinions. there is a difference of oppinion and fact. the fact that you people see kerry a sthe better choice with out knowing the facts is what makes me angry. stillllll, to this day, you kerry supporters have not produced anything. you argue of oppinion without facts. i know it was dumb to get so mad because i have to come to realize that if most americans actually paid attention, looked into what is being done and said around this great nation, we wouldnt be in this mess and the politicians wouldnt get away with what they get away with.

if you people think you know it all, start posting truth and facts instead of your oppinions. post your candidates plans and how he intends to do them. any jerkoff can call someone dumb or an idiot. because someone can say someone failed when a job is not done, does not make a better choice for president. i wish the people who want kerry can have them seperate from those who want bush (considering the choices we have). I think it's people like that should still be penalized and suffer.

now i know i said i wouldnt post in this thread anymore but some people still have to include me into it. i ask don't because i do not want to discuss any politics with anyone who is not open minded and does not know or have not taken the time to research anything themself. it's like debating a cnn news segment which is based in bias bs. to prove my point, you people were so right when cbs cracked that big story. time after time, the democrats have done this to brainwash you to think that bush is that bad by always pointing out the negatives. in all of your eyes, nothing is positive. the stock market, the economy, the security is not good enough becaus ethe arrogance and ignorance of an american who does not learn the facts or take the time to see what kerry is saying and his intentions. atleast i am not blind voting for bush and knowing what i don't like about him. thats the difference.

[ME BIGGD01]

Our founding fathers were smarter than you give them credit for. Another key reason for the Electorial College was to prevent heavily populated states from dictating their values upon the nation. That is why each state has only two senate representatives. Having lived in CA for some years, I thank our founding fathers for this great process of democracy which prevents populated states like CA and NY from screwing everything up for the rest of us.

this is my whole point of statements made here by people that do not know why laws were made and the reasons they were made. but a comment is still made and others will still follow it.


uzi--there just isnt a point. gm is a democrat party. either that or we and a few others are just too dumb to realize to not bother the like the rest of the people here who dont feed into these threads.

[ME BIGGD01]

Guys c'mon take it easy......


Each is entitled to their own opinion! Name calling is slightly childish.


And my honest opinion is that It no longer matters who started the war, why it was sarted, or who joined. Right now what truely matters is what we can do to effectively end the military operations in Iraq, without jeopardizing the stablitiy of the country and the growth of democracy. Unfortuantly Iraq doesn't have a history of democarcy so it may take awhile. So unforuntaly some sort of peace keeping/ police force is going to be needed there. Neither canidate(according to my satifaction) has come up witha fesible and reasonable plan to do so.

I'm not sure who said this but there are other ways to effictively fight the war on terror. I don't believe that the war on teror can be effictivly fought by conventional mean. Basically its an ideological war between a backwards interrpretation of the Koran and the ideologly of a slowly crumbly western philosphy. to win this war a nation must end funding of terror groups. Also western gov't need to overthrow extremist go'vt by getting the ppl of the nation to rise up on their own.


*** excuse my spelling

great post madfox. i agree with you 100%. the funny thing is, you just explained what we are doing in iraq and attempting to do in the mid east:thumbs: excuse the administration for not doing it all in 1 year.

[MR. SLiK]

and jim, violence must be fought with violence. you show me where a talk solved a war.

not necessarily. Gandhi successfully defeated the british with no violence whatsoever.

[ME BIGGD01]

I forgot all about Gandhi :) .

[Mad Fox]

and jim, violence must be fought with violence. you show me where a talk solved a war. if it was up to the democrats, we wouldnt of even fought world war 2. and yes, if someone attacks me, i will attack them. why should i change my way because of the internet. i am the way i am and if others don't agree with that, tough didly on them.

.

FDr one of our greatest president was a Democrat and the man who won the war Harry truman was a democrat. Herbert Hoover Republican :thumbsdown:

[Ra\/en]

and jim, violence must be fought with violence. you show me where a talk solved a war.


Iraq actually didnt attack the U.S. first.

[ME BIGGD01]

Iraq actually didnt attack the U.S. first.
actually yes they did. they were involved in the first attempt to take down the twin towers. many forget about the bomb that went off. but regardless....

[OPTIMOOSE]

do you think i wouldnt go if i was asked? and dont be such a retard who comes here once in a blue moon to make a dumb comment. just because i am for this war and support my presidents reasoning for fighting terror there instead of here does not make me a person who likes war.



Hey BIGD , Grow the hell up! Your starting to should like SIRC... You call me a retard? I think your the only one whos brainwashed by bush and his stupid goverment.

Im actually on here all the time, i try to keep quiet! But your so pro war it isnt funny.. can you explain why the bin laden family was flown out of the usa when the towers were hit?

Why dont you go sign up and goto iraq... i think you might want to come home shortly after.. I would not go no matter how much the goverment wanted me to go. Screw that im not dying for some made up war..

Must be saddam, blame him, lying in a dirt hole in the desert.. Yeah hes got weapons of mass distruction..

War - do you call killing innocent children and people PRECISION STRIKES?

Dont even bother addressing me, bigd cause i dont care to hear your useless blabing..

[OPTIMOOSE]

actually yes they did. they were involved in the first attempt to take down the twin towers. many forget about the bomb that went off. but regardless....


So what you are saying is - that if someone comes from a certain country to cause terror in the USA should we hold their country responsible for their actions?

Cause thats what your goverment is doing.. Why do you think some iraqies are standing up against the USA?

THERE IS NO LINK BETWEEN IRAQ AND 9/11 IT WAS SAID TONIGHT on the DEBATE....


Vote KERRY!

[CaptainKeyes]

Iraq had attacked the U.S. many times, actually. Did they attack the U.S. on our own soil? No, but they broke the Peace treaty resolution made after the gulf war time and again. Maybe you dont consider that to be much of a issue though.

[OPTIMOOSE]

Iraq had attacked the U.S. many times, actually. Did they attack the U.S. on our own soil? No, but they broke the Peace treaty resolution made after the gulf war time and again. Maybe you dont consider that to be much of a issue though.


Was the whole country attacking the USA or just a group? Thats right it was just a group not the country! Does every iraqie follow the peace treaty? Does every american live by the constitution? NOT LIKELY!

[CaptainKeyes]

They did not just fly out the Parts of the Bin Laden Family (most of the family who actually turned on Bin Laden) but they flew out many established foreign familys that may be targeted for hate crimes. Its the same policy Most of Europe has, but you only hear about the bin laden family because thats what michael moore and many liberal media outlets choose to polarize, not the fact that it is policy to fly out familys during such times that could be targeted for hate crimes.

[He Is Legend]

Was the whole country attacking the USA or just a group? Thats right it was just a group not the country! Does every iraqie follow the peace treaty? Does every american live by the constitution? NOT LIKELY!

dont you live in canada?

[CaptainKeyes]

Heh... thats a silly rebuttal, Optimus

[OPTIMOOSE]

They did not just fly out the Parts of the Bin Laden Family (most of the family who actually turned on Bin Laden) but they flew out many established foreign familys that may be targeted for hate crimes. Its the same policy Most of Europe has, but you only hear about the bin laden family because thats what michael moore and many liberal media outlets choose to polarize, not the fact that it is policy to fly out familys during such times that could be targeted for hate crimes.

Is it also policy to kick those people of iraqie decent out of the USA? Many established business owners in the USA have been told to leave the USA, they seek refuge in CANADA, and now will never return to the USA. Why should they?

Michael Moore made some great documentarys, its amazing how the truth comes out..

[OPTIMOOSE]

dont you live in canada?


But of course.. I have spent about 10 years of my life in the USA..

[Slice]

Iraq had attacked the U.S. many times, actually. Did they attack the U.S. on our own soil? No, but they broke the Peace treaty resolution made after the gulf war time and again. Maybe you dont consider that to be much of a issue though.
Attacking someone and breaking a law are two completely different things. I have yet to hear a valid and good reason as to why we attacked Iraq and if I haven't heard one by now, there simply isn't one. What our government is doing now is simply damage control, clean up and cover up time.

[ME BIGGD01]

optimus, you are as ignorant as they come. first, i don't think i called you retarded but said "don't be a retard". maybe you are right with the assumption. second you obviosly have no clue what we are doing in iraq becaus eyou said we are being terrorist to them. you do not know anything it seems and maybe the reason you are the way you are. pro-war you say? yes i guess i am pro war on the war on terror. is that wrong? i don't think so.

you ask--So what you are saying is - that if someone comes from a certain country to cause terror in the USA should we hold their country responsible for their actions?

that is the dumbest question anypne has ever asked. i will not even answer that becaus eits obvious you can not understand. you are bias and no matter what you say, i refuse to believe you like america yourself. sounds like jealousy to me. stay in canada.

you followed up with--Cause thats what your goverment is doing.. Why do you think some iraqies are standing up against the USA?

you are misinformed. that comment was the frosting on the cake of morons. you have no clue and suggest you don't bother posting anything atleast until you learn what's really going on. i guessthey are also killing there own right?


you also say--THERE IS NO LINK BETWEEN IRAQ AND 9/11 IT WAS SAID TONIGHT on the DEBATE....

why go on, you are just ignorant and have no idea to see the truth. i would tell you that cheney didnt say iraq was involved as reported over a year ago but that has nothing to do with the terrorists there and saddams support for terrorism. i person like saddam imo, was involved because of his nature but regardless, we had every right to go there and take him out. sucj a libera you are but never comment on the murders and rapes and other horrendous things that were going on in iraq in which the usa is making better. stop being jealous of america and go read a book you ignorant, most likely under skilled jealous fool. i will fight you on this any day of the week. you are simple. it's simple to with people like you.

you probably wont understand anything i sai so i will try to explain in your own language. here it goes--duhhhh--duhhhh ahhh, uggg duhhhh.

got that?

[OPTIMOOSE]

And you have proven how dumb you are!
DUHHHDUMB!

I dont need to comment further everyone can read..

[CaptainKeyes]

Oh my, your full of silly rebuttals arent you.
First your upset that they flew out the Bin Laden family and other foreign prestigous familys precisely because they could have been targeted for hate crimes. Now your upset because we also fly out Iraqis during a time of war. But no what it seems your really upset about, is the fact that they take refuge where you live.

So what your saying is, keep both Bin Laden's family and Iraqis here on our soil regardless of the circumstances. You are not sound of mind, it seems.

[Slice]

They did not just fly out the Parts of the Bin Laden Family (most of the family who actually turned on Bin Laden) but they flew out many established foreign familys that may be targeted for hate crimes. Its the same policy Most of Europe has, but you only hear about the bin laden family because thats what michael moore and many liberal media outlets choose to polarize, not the fact that it is policy to fly out familys during such times that could be targeted for hate crimes.
Well isn't that special. Funny how when a single murder takes place in this Country the first place the police go to is the family and question them. Yet we flew that bastard's family out of the Country almost immediately.

[ME BIGGD01]

Attacking someone and breaking a law are two completely different things. I have yet to hear a valid and good reason as to why we attacked Iraq and if I haven't heard one by now, there simply isn't one. What our government is doing now is simply damage control, clean up and cover up time.
slice, please. being an american, you should know 17 reason why we had a right to go into iraq. this is a dumb statement. :down: i would be you don't know whats going on in iraq today or yesterday. why comment on it if you don't. you said you have not heard a reason? are you kidding me? do you recall clinton attacking iraq? was it ok then?

[OPTIMOOSE]

Oh my, your full of silly rebuttals arent you.
First your upset that they flew out the Bin Laden family and other foreign prestigous familys precisely because they could have been targeted for hate crimes. Now your upset because we also fly out Iraqis during a time of war. But no what it seems your really upset about, is the fact that they take refuge where you live.

So what your saying is, keep both Bin Laden's family and Iraqis here on our soil regardless of the circumstances. You are not sound of mind, it seems.

Read what i wrote your missinformed. I welcome any races to canada! Everyone is welcome to come to canada.. we have no problems over here.

[ME BIGGD01]

And you have proven how dumb you are!
DUHHHDUMB!

I dont need to comment further everyone can read..\


i wish you wouldnt because you make no sense and don't hav a clue on what you are talking about. you want to argue with me and go one on one, i am fine with that but don't discuss issues you have no knowledge of. don't you have to be up early in the morning? don't waste peoples time talking about something that doesnt involve your country and worst, you have no clue on. besides, people will be expecting their paper on their door step by 6am:D

[SASQUATCH]

Ok let's move on guys please LOL

http://www.gamemecca.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65526

[ME BIGGD01]

Well isn't that special. Funny how when a single murder takes place in this Country the first place the police go to is the family and question them. Yet we flew that bastard's family out of the Country almost immediately.

slice, show me where you got that information. there is a point i would like to make regarding information being spread here by kerry suporters that dont know didly.

i know you are on this forum now so lets see how fast you can get the info. i am already for it:thumbs:

[CaptainKeyes]

Attacking someone and breaking a law are two completely different things. I have yet to hear a valid and good reason as to why we attacked Iraq and if I haven't heard one by now, there simply isn't one. What our government is doing now is simply damage control, clean up and cover up time.
Attacking someone? You are completely avoiding the issue like you have time in again in our little debates.

The plain simple fact is they ATTACKED the U.S., while also breaking a cease fire resolution. So not ONLY did they attack someone, they broke a law as you so clearly outlined as well.

I fail to see your Dillema.

[Slice]

optimus, you are as ignorant as they come. first, i don't think i called you retarded but said "don't be a retard". maybe you are right with the assumption. second you obviosly have no clue what we are doing in iraq becaus eyou said we are being terrorist to them. you do not know anything it seems and maybe the reason you are the way you are. pro-war you say? yes i guess i am pro war on the war on terror. is that wrong? i don't think so.

you ask--So what you are saying is - that if someone comes from a certain country to cause terror in the USA should we hold their country responsible for their actions?

that is the dumbest question anypne has ever asked. i will not even answer that becaus eits obvious you can not understand. you are bias and no matter what you say, i refuse to believe you like america yourself. sounds like jealousy to me. stay in canada.

you followed up with--Cause thats what your goverment is doing.. Why do you think some iraqies are standing up against the USA?

you are misinformed. that comment was the frosting on the cake of morons. you have no clue and suggest you don't bother posting anything atleast until you learn what's really going on. i guessthey are also killing there own right?


you also say--THERE IS NO LINK BETWEEN IRAQ AND 9/11 IT WAS SAID TONIGHT on the DEBATE....

why go on, you are just ignorant and have no idea to see the truth. i would tell you that cheney didnt say iraq was involved as reported over a year ago but that has nothing to do with the terrorists there and saddams support for terrorism. i person like saddam imo, was involved because of his nature but regardless, we had every right to go there and take him out. sucj a libera you are but never comment on the murders and rapes and other horrendous things that were going on in iraq in which the usa is making better. stop being jealous of america and go read a book you ignorant, most likely under skilled jealous fool. i will fight you on this any day of the week. you are simple. it's simple to with people like you.

you probably wont understand anything i sai so i will try to explain in your own language. here it goes--duhhhh--duhhhh ahhh, uggg duhhhh.

got that?
Bigg I hate to be the one to say this but you definately need that vacation bud. You come here with an I don't want to hear you or your opinion and start calling people names. What is up with that? Can't you make a point without attacking people? It is a very simple concept, yet you seem to be the only one who doesn't seem to grasp it to well.

[ME BIGGD01]

Attacking someone? You are completely avoiding the issue like you have time in again in our little debates.

The plain simple fact is they ATTACKED the U.S., while also breaking a cease fire resolution. So not ONLY did they attack someone, they broke a law as you so clearly outlined as well.

I fail to see your Dillema.
it is no use captain. they are typical kerry supporters. they talk about stuff they hear on tv. thats why you don't hear anything other than bush is a failure or an idiot fom these people. they have statement but not facts or answers. they talk about the bad thing they see on tv about iraq but have no clue of the good hats going on in iraq. it is nothing but negatives that they feel can get their point across. with their way, we would never have fought in any world war or any war for that matter. this is what they think life is about which is comical. they think because if you are against terrorism, you are pro war. that state of mind would change if a bomb blows them up where they live. if kerry wins this election, you can bet your savings that more americans will die in 1 day after he is elected than the year we have been in iraq. it might not happend that soon but dfinetly after his election. people fail to see the true threat which if it was only them to get killed by terrorism, i wouldnt care.

[Slice]

Attacking someone? You are completely avoiding the issue like you have time in again in our little debates.

The plain simple fact is they ATTACKED the U.S., while also breaking a cease fire resolution. So not ONLY did they attack someone, they broke a law as you so clearly outlined as well.

I fail to see your Dillema.
Get your facts straight.

[OPTIMOOSE]

BigD do you think you can tell us all again why it is that "your country" invaded iraq?

And BIGD try avoiding the backtalk - I just want straight answers

[OPTIMOOSE]

Captaineyes - stay out of conversations you clearly know nothing about.

[ME BIGGD01]

Bigg I hate to be the one to say this but you definately need that vacation bud. You come here with an I don't want to hear you or your opinion and start calling people names. What is up with that? Can't you make a point without attacking people? It is a very simple concept, yet you seem to be the only one who doesn't seem to grasp it to well.
you are not stating your oppinion bud. you are making statements with facts. that's what disturbs me. not just from you but others that talk about this. there is not a difference in oppinion here we are disputing. we are disputing statement that are made and are not true. i want to know where you people got the information so i can prove my point. if we based facts from rumors then whats the point of truth?

[Slice]

it is no use captain. they are typical kerry supporters. they talk about stuff they hear on tv. thats why you don't hear anything other than bush is a failure or an idiot fom these people. they have statement but not facts or answers. they talk about the bad thing they see on tv about iraq but have no clue of the good hats going on in iraq. it is nothing but negatives that they feel can get their point across. with their way, we would never have fought in any world war or any war for that matter. this is what they think life is about which is comical. they think because if you are against terrorism, you are pro war. that state of mind would change if a bomb blows them up where they live. if kerry wins this election, you can bet your savings that more americans will die in 1 day after he is elected than the year we have been in iraq. it might not happend that soon but dfinetly after his election. people fail to see the true threat which if it was only them to get killed by terrorism, i wouldnt care.
I will never post another responce to this if you can give me one good reason or any piece of evidence as to why this Country should be in Iraq right now, based on what the President of the United States of America stated we were going to war for.

[ME BIGGD01]

Captaineyes - stay out of conversations you clearly know nothing about.
you are joking right
??????????????????

if not, lets here where you get your information wait, you have none--

[solid snake295]

Don’t waste peoples time talking about something that doesn’t involve your country and worst, you have no clue on.



Hey bigg, I don’t think you saw it the first time. You must be BLIND or something. Don’t be retarded. Maybe you’re just misinformed and have no clue what you’re talking about.

Here ya go, maybe you'll be able to read it this time, and I got some old man font for ya.







Americans should never underestimate the constant pressure on Canada which the mere presence of the United States has produced. We're different people from you and we're different people because of you. Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is effected by every twitch and grunt. It should not therefore be expected that this kind of nation, this Canada, should project itself as a mirror image of the United States.
- (Prime Minister) Pierre Elliot Trudeau




Im sure this will be followed up by the dumbest reply ever.



And FFS use a spell checker!

[OPTIMOOSE]

I frankly dont care who wins the election.. Its all about common sense.. try using it.

Stop dancing around and give us straight answers Bigd.

[CaptainKeyes]

Get your facts straight.
Please, point me in the right direction.. give me the facts because all im seeing from you are accusations that my facts arent straight :D

[OPTIMOOSE]

you are joking right
??????????????????

if not, lets here where you get your information wait, you have none--


Take of your bunny slippers and answer the questions..

[OPTIMOOSE]

Please, point me in the right direction.. give me the facts because all im seeing from you are accusations that my facts arent straight :D

Yeah you and your 43 posts.. Ill ask you both again, EXPLAIN to us why the USA INVADED IRAQ?

[CaptainKeyes]

Captaineyes - stay out of conversations you clearly know nothing about.
Educate me please! Tell me where my facts hit a wall, point out where they are innacurate! If you can do that, then MAYBE you will be credited for more then being full of ****. Stop punching air in otherwords!

[OPTIMOOSE]

CaptainKeyes , I was originally posting to bigd, you jumped into something you know nothing about. Your facts are clearly warped.. Doctumentary...

Main Entry: doc·u·men·ta·ry
Pronunciation: "dä-ky&-'men-t&-rE
Function: adjective
: being, consisting of, or contained in documents <documentary evidence>

EVIDENCE.. meaning paper trail to back it up..

What weapons of mass distruction? Why did the USA invade IRAQ?

[Slice]

you are not stating your oppinion bud. you are making statements with facts. that's what disturbs me. not just from you but others that talk about this. there is not a difference in oppinion here we are disputing. we are disputing statement that are made and are not true. i want to know where you people got the information so i can prove my point. if we based facts from rumors then whats the point of truth?
I got them from the Presiden't mouth.

And I quote from a show that I watched,

BARBARA WALTERS

“Mr. President, what is on everyone’s mind, obviously, is Iraq. And the Iraqis of course say they have no weapons of mass destruction. Do you think that Saddam Hussein is lying?”

PRESIDENT BUSH

“Too early to tell. He certainly has deceived the world in the past, and, time will tell.

The issue is, what should be on people’s mind is peace, how to achieve peace in a dangerous world. And what’s interesting for Americans to understand, Barbara is that, our world changed on September 11th, 2001 in this way. It changed a lot of ways for a lot of people, but the fundamental shift in foreign policy is a result of America now realizing that we’re now a battlefield.”

BARBARA WALTERS

“What is your gut feeling? You’re a man who talks about your instincts and your gut. What’s your gut feeling about this report?”

PRESIDENT BUSH

“I don’t want to prejudge the report. But my gut feeling about Saddam Hussein is that he is a man who deceives, denies. He’s a man who states his power through torture and murder. I have great sympathy for the Iraqi people. I believe in freedom for all, and I am appalled by a regime that mistreats people the way Saddam Hussein has mistreated the Iraqi people.”


Funny how his last answer has nothing to do with the question but is exactly his responce for the war today. Also Bigg, if I can't use what the president says on tv to my face as credible than why don't you explain to me what I can use as some credible information.

[SASQUATCH]

The reason supposedly was because not only mass destruction but terrorism. Nevertheless that mass destruction was not found but keep this in mind that if Saddam was still in power, rest assure that he would have made something like possibly chemical and there was some but not what we expected of it but envision if he was still in power and 10 years later we would have had to deal with it anyway. Also consider the possibility that terrorism would have gotten there hands on it 10 years later.

[CaptainKeyes]

45 posts now mofo. *rolls eyes*

The MAIN reason we invaded Iraq, was because Saddam Dicked around with the U.N. council broke resolutions (like i stated earlier) screwed around weapons inspectors and lead us to believe the intelligence gathered against him. He could have easily avoided getting tracked down and thrown in jail remember, could have avoided a coalition invasion but NO. He did not yield one bit... did not go along with inspections.. did not do ANYTHING to DETOUR us (John Kerry or the entire UN panel btw) from believing our intelligence. Had HE went the distance we would have never invaded. He brought this upon himself.

[ME BIGGD01]

I will never post another responce to this if you can give me one good reason or any piece of evidence as to why this Country should be in Iraq right now, based on what the President of the United States of America stated we were going to war for.
simple-

1st-- un resolutions--all 17 of them being ignored. inspectors ordered to leave iraq during un inspectors were to be inspecting for chemical and biological weapons. this happend during clinto era that inspectors were forced to leave.

2nd--weapons of mass destruction which have not been found. weapons were used by iraq on the kurds and those have not been found either. this is debated and dismissed without the chance of them still being hidden or exported to syria. the intelligence was seen by both candidates and said action was needed to be taken. yes kerry voted for this also. due to the intelligence, there were weapons of mass destruction. the have not found them yet does not mean, there are not. sadly easily dismissed bt democrats to win an election considering american families would suffer from this mistake.

3rd--saddam hussein was paying 25000 to the families of the suicide bomber to kill and blow themself up. many jews in isreal were being attacked. this is a terrorist supporter and funder which is listed on the axis of evil list mentioned by bush after 9/11. this could be brought to america any time regardless of who is in office but if the problem is not faced, we will be threatened and unprpared just like we were on 9/11.

4th--we stopped bombing them in desert storm due to the signed resolutions. we could of finished it then but allowed sddam a chance. resolution after resolution, we were ignored while our planes were being fired upon in iraq. saddam had no plan to stop and continued his plans of evil. look at his history as he was hoping the un would pass another resolution which would have been ignored like the rest. our president made a move to fight him as warned if he didnt comply and didnt plan to. saddam had numerous warnings and now we are in iraq making in a better place where the people are free. it's not peaches and cream yet but neither was it here when americans were fighting for freedom. it has been a year. things this big do not go quickly. we are not fighting iraqi's, we and other nations including iraqi's are fighting all the terrorists in the meid east being sent from--iran, syria, saudi arabia. we will win this but it wont be done tommorow.

[CaptainKeyes]

CaptainKeyes , I was originally posting to bigd, you jumped into something you know nothing about. Your facts are clearly warped.. Doctumentary...

Main Entry: doc·u·men·ta·ry
Pronunciation: "dä-ky&-'men-t&-rE
Function: adjective
: being, consisting of, or contained in documents <documentary evidence>

EVIDENCE.. meaning paper trail to back it up..

What weapons of mass distruction? Why did the USA invade IRAQ?

U forgot to include this sub definition
#2 Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

Moore editorialized and took things out of context. That is not a documentary but a shlockumentary.

Editorialized, before you go to look it up means
1. To express an opinion in or as if in an editorial.
2. To present an opinion in the guise of an objective report.
He presented out of context facts and opinions as full blown truth

move along.

[OPTIMOOSE]

45 posts now mofo. *rolls eyes*

The MAIN reason we invaded Iraq, was because Saddam Dicked around with the U.N. council broke resolutions (like i stated earlier) screwed around weapons inspectors and lead us to believe the intelligence gathered against him. He could have easily avoided getting tracked down and thrown in jail remember, could have avoided a coalition invasion but NO. He did not yield one bit... did not go along with inspections.. did not do ANYTHING to DETOUR us (John Kerry or the entire UN panel btw) from believing our intelligence. Had HE went the distance we would have never invaded. He brought this upon himself.

THE USA BRAINWASHED EVERYONE at the UN, how many times did it take for them to get un approval.. OH WAIT they didnt get it! What does kerry have to do with bush's stupid decisions? How much hardship has this war caused the usa?
All i know is my gas isnt getting any cheaper.. And ive come to notice no country wants to commit to supporting the usa fully..
GO FIGURE..

[CaptainKeyes]

Let me state this. Bringing freedom and democracy to Iraq (which has the most chance to support itself) Is the absoloute BEST thing that could happen to the middle east. It will put education, a higher state of living and a true democracy straight into the hands of those who have never experianced such things. It will be a signifigant catalyst to end terrorism in and of itself.

[OPTIMOOSE]

Your brainwashed too.. Captain..

Do you support innocent deaths of both usa soldiers and iraqi people and children with these so called precision strikes?

[Slice]

simple-

1st-- un resolutions--all 17 of them being ignored. inspectors ordered to leave iraq during un inspectors were to be inspecting for chemical and biological weapons. this happend during clinto era that inspectors were forced to leave.

2nd--weapons of mass destruction which have not been found. weapons were used by iraq on the kurds and those have not been found either. this is debated and dismissed without the chance of them still being hidden or exported to syria. the intelligence was seen by both candidates and said action was needed to be taken. yes kerry voted for this also. due to the intelligence, there were weapons of mass destruction. the have not found them yet does not mean, there are not. sadly easily dismissed bt democrats to win an election considering american families would suffer from this mistake.

3rd--saddam hussein was paying 25000 to the families of the suicide bomber to kill and blow themself up. many jews in isreal were being attacked. this is a terrorist supporter and funder which is listed on the axis of evil list mentioned by bush after 9/11. this could be brought to america any time regardless of who is in office but if the problem is not faced, we will be threatened and unprpared just like we were on 9/11.

4th--we stopped bombing them in desert storm due to the signed resolutions. we could of finished it then but allowed sddam a chance. resolution after resolution, we were ignored while our planes were being fired upon in iraq. saddam had no plan to stop and continued his plans of evil. look at his history as he was hoping the un would pass another resolution which would have been ignored like the rest. our president made a move to fight him as warned if he didnt comply and didnt plan to. saddam had numerous warnings and now we are in iraq making in a better place where the people are free. it's not peaches and cream yet but neither was it here when americans were fighting for freedom. it has been a year. things this big do not go quickly. we are not fighting iraqi's, we and other nations including iraqi's are fighting all the terrorists in the meid east being sent from--iran, syria, saudi arabia. we will win this but it wont be done tommorow.
Like I expected not one good reason to make war on a country. These answers all sound good and as an American I would love all countries to be free of bad leaders and the evil and such that may go on, but the reality is we invaded this country for no reason. They were not a significant threat to the United States yet Bush made the decision for everyone that we needed to blow them up.

[Slice]

Let me state this. Bringing freedom and democracy to Iraq (which has the most chance to support itself) Is the absoloute BEST thing that could happen to the middle east. It will put education, a higher state of living and a true democracy straight into the hands of those who have never experianced such things. It will be a signifigant catalyst to end terrorism in and of itself.
Why are you justifying the cause now? Do you know why, because you feel the need to because deep down you know the reason given to the American people was wrong and a lie.