Spank the child?

[Pure_Evil]

A interesting article that inspired this poll spanking legal (http://www.ctnow.com/news/yahoo/hc-dcfspanked1130.artnov30,1,3549520.story?coll=hc-aol-yahoo-nws-hed)

[Thundarr]

Spank away! It worked on me when I was a little kid! I think it should be used as a rare punishment, though or else it's not so scary anymore..... :thumbs:

[Grimmy]

Hell yea! My arse still hurts from all of the spankings! But I don't have kids so I couldn't really say.

[JIMINATOR]

lol, not going to sign up to read the article, but i don't believe spanking should be used as a primary means of discipline, a swat on the butt is fine for getting someone's attention, but teaching by example that violence solves all problems... If your boss smacked you at work for [insert reason] that would be assault, why would you do the same with kids? anyway if it takes the threat of physical violence to keep the kids (most of the time) in line, then that is just failed parenting.

[Goober]

I say yes!.....My parents only spanked me when I really screwed up. The same at school..except that was with the BOARD of education....remember that board folks? The one wielded by the largest coach in the school?......My butt still hurts. These days Coach would have been arrested and put in jail for assault. I think that's BS!.
Some kids don't understand anything but pain...I know I didn't.

[SALvation]

My grandma would give me the wooden spoon but when my mom tried I would just laugh at her. That was the end of that. :)

[ME BIGGD01]

great poll pure:thumbs: . i realy am against hitting your children but i feel that it does work if nothing else works. there is a difference between abuse and discipline. i think teaching your kids respect will help out raising children church also is grat for the family but how many people do that these days.

[ME BIGGD01]

I say yes!.....My parents only spanked me when I really screwed up. The same at school..except that was with the BOARD of education....remember that board folks? The one wielded by the largest coach in the school?......My butt still hurts. These days Coach would have been arrested and put in jail for assault. I think that's BS!.
Some kids don't understand anything but pain...I know I didn't.
is it safe to say you really ike to be spanked:D ?

[Pure_Evil]

lol, not going to sign up to read the article, but i don't believe spanking should be used as a primary means of discipline, a swat on the butt is fine for getting someone's attention, but teaching by example that violence solves all problems... If your boss smacked you at work for [insert reason] that would be assault, why would you do the same with kids? anyway if it takes the threat of physical violence to keep the kids (most of the time) in line, then that is just failed parenting.

Court: Parents May Spank
Force Not Always Abuse, Judges Say
By COLIN POITRAS
Courant Staff Writer

November 30 2004

Parents who spank their children as a form of discipline are not necessarily engaging in child abuse, even when they use a belt and leave a bruise, the state Appellate Court has said.

In a ruling released Monday, the judges recognized a parent's right to use "reasonable physical force" to discipline a child. They said that, before citing someone for physical abuse, the Department of Children and Families must take into account the circumstances surrounding the use of corporal punishment.

The judges said the agency's position that any non-accidental injury caused by a parent to a child qualifies as abuse is too narrow and in conflict with state law that allows "reasonable" corporal punishment of a child.

"If we were to adopt the statutory interpretation urged by the department, the mere application of a parent's hand to a child's backside that results in even minimal bruising would, as a matter of law, require a finding of physical abuse," Chief Judge William J. Lavery wrote.

"Such a result would preclude any explanation or consideration of the reasonableness of the act that caused the injury...," Lavery wrote. "We do not believe that the legislature intended such a result."

DCF spokesman Gary Kleeblatt said the ruling will have "serious implications" for how the agency does its work.

"We don't routinely determine whether child abuse or neglect occurred based on the intent of the parent," Kleeblatt said. The agency is considering whether to appeal.

Connecticut Child Advocate Jeanne Milstein said she respects the judges' decision, but cannot condone the laying of hands on children.

"There are other, healthier ways to discipline children," Milstein said.

She advised parents to speak to their children about the error of their ways and try other non-violent means to discipline them.

Monday's ruling stems from a case in which a teacher appealed her 1999 citation for child abuse after she spanked her 5-year-old daughter with a belt for swinging and jumping on her bed at home.

The spanking left a one-inch bruise on the girl's thigh. The mother, who is only identified as Lovan C. in court papers to protect her daughter's identity, argued that she should not have been cited for abuse because it was a one-time occurrence and she did not intend to hurt her child.

Various professionals who interviewed the family, as well as the woman's daughter and older son, supported the mother's claim that she did not routinely use force as punishment.

A DCF hearing officer upheld the agency's finding at the mother's initial appeal.

The officer expressed concern about the circumstances, but said she was bound by the "technical definition" of abuse as an injury to a child by non-accidental means.

A Superior Court judge also upheld the finding, saying that the statutes and regulations are clear in dealing with non-accidental injuries to children.

The Appellate Court ruled that the Superior Court judge improperly dismissed the mother's appeal and said the hearing officer should have held a hearing to determine the reasonableness of the discipline before substantiating any abuse.

"The hearing officer must assess the reasonableness of the punishment in light of the child's misbehavior and the surrounding circumstances, including the parent's motive, the type of punishment administered, the amount of force used and the child's age...," Lavery wrote. "If it is determined that the parent used reasonable physical force on the child in order to maintain discipline or to promote the child's welfare, a substantiation of physical abuse cannot stand."

The judges ordered DCF to reverse the abuse citation and remove the teacher's name from the state's central child abuse and neglect registry, which listed her as a threat to children and could have caused her to lose her job.

sorry, didn't know you had to register...

[Die Hard]

As a last resort only...

[Sexyjess]

i dont like the idea of spank a child but sometimes it need but i agree with die hard

[Slice]

I don't think todays kids are spanked enough. It seems everywhere I go these days the parents are just letting their kids do whatever they want. Spanking is to remind you never to do that again. When you're given a "time out" as a kid it means, stop for now but resume later. Some people's kids act so out of hand sometimes that I want to smack em. :P

[JIMINATOR]

not spanking your child is different from not disciplining your child,
but yes, I agree that far too many parents let their kids do anything they want.

[Death Engineer]

I do indeed believe in spanking as a disciplinary measure. I don't think it should be done in anger or with your bare hands (hands are instruments of love...unless I'm playing serious sam). Discipline should always be with a heart of love and the point is to change behavior, not to bruise or batter a child.

If the Bible says it's necessary, then I'm with God on this one.


Has God indeed said...He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.


Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of correction will drive it far from him.


Do not withhold correction from a child, For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. You shall beat him with a rod, And deliver his soul from hell.


Chasten you son while there is hope, And do not set your heart on his destruction.

[BobtheCkroach]

Wow! Good post, great replies folks! I think spanking is definitely an effective form of discipline, and I think it should be used, but there should be limits. I mean, Lord knows that it did wonders for me...I can still feel my teeth rattlin' from my dad's boot connecting with my rear...<shudders>

There were definitely some "too fars", but all in all, spanking did good for me. I agree that teaching children violence is bad, but I was never under the impression that you should physically hurt someone that was doing wrong, in general. I was, however, taught that there are consequences for your actions. There is an age where the value of physical discipline losses its strength when compared to priviledge discipline...my mom could have spanked me all day...but threaten to take away Nintendo. But there's an age where nothing worked better than a swift foot...or hand...or wooden spoon...or plastic spoon...or belt...on my butt.

I will say that I defitely agree with DE...it should never been in anger. I'm not sure about never using bare hands, but definitely not in anger. There were a few times that I can remember where my dad came to spank me and I can vividly remember the anger in his face...things like that, while rare, work to make you fear your 'rents rather than respect them, and that's getting you nowhere.

Good verses DE...keep this goin' guys, it's a good one so far! Nice topic, Pure!

BTW...how many of you are Geezery enough to remember the days when teachers/coaches could spank you, like Goober...I didn't realize people that old played video games...LOL...j/k guys! :P

[FUS1ON]

BTW...how many of you are Geezery enough to remember the days when teachers/coaches could spank you

Heh i'm 43 and yes I do, the old fart had a board with a hole in it, the first swing raised a welp and the second one did some real damage. I had my turn on the wrong end of it once ... and only once!

[Dan2]

Never lay a hand on a child ever!!! Teach your children well and you won't have to bring violence into the equation.IMO.

[OUTLAWS high ping camper]

Yeh, I was one of those spanked kids (with an aligator belt).

I'd raise Hell all day..... my Dad would come home from work....and the first thing he had to do was spank us kids (per Mom's request).

Looking back, I feel sorry for the guy...can you imagine coming home from work, to that?

My younger brother is raising 5 children without spanking. My hat is off to him.

The decision to spank a child would be very difficult for me (if I had kids).

[SPAWN]

screw that....just knock them the H3LL OUT!!!

Head Of State good movie :thumbs:

[SPAWN]

**** my dad had this big A$$ wooden paddle....with holes in it. Everytime we got it our names went onto the paddle. Ya....im quit proud of that paddle now. My names on one complete side. :D

[BobtheCkroach]

**** my dad had this big A$$ wooden paddle....with holes in it. Everytime we got it our names went onto the paddle. Ya....im quit proud of that paddle now. My names on one complete side. :D

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Woah.

[Slice]

Never lay a hand on a child ever!!! Teach your children well and you won't have to bring violence into the equation.IMO.
In a perfect world I would agree with you. Unfortunately there are a lot of uneducated parents and parents that just don't care what their children are doing. Also not every child is capable of learning without positive and negative enforcement.

[SPAWN]

seee i dont agree with the whole dont lay a finger on ur child thing. U should punish when they do something bad and reward when they do something good. If u dont get the respect of your kid its not going to work. Trust me i know i have friends that are just way out of this world with how they act to their parents. most of the kids i have encountered that havent gotten a spankin are stuck up and rude to other people. :down:

idk...but it seems like the kids that do get spanked act more politely where im from. :dunno:

[OUTLAWS WHOCARES]

Sometimes a child needs a whopping. Heck my Father beat my ass several times. Did I deserve it? Hell yea I did. What father wants the 4am phone call from the cops. He let my ass rot then beat the crap out of me when he picked me up.

[OUTLAWS 9.99repeating^32]

Interesting topic. I believe that "spanking" - or physically attacking one's child in any way - is not proper parenting. To me, violence is never the answer. There are worse things than physical pain which can substitute "spanking" without ever using violence. As far as alternate methods of discipline are concerned, there are plenty. Some examples include: taking away the child's favorite toy, restricting the child's diet to not include his or her favorite food, or isolating the child from his or her favorite environment.

I am happy to say that I was never hit as a child. My parents disciplined me without laying a finger on me. They taught me right from wrong, and at the same time, taught me to look away from physical violence as a means to an end.

[Slice]

To me, violence is never the answer. There are worse things than physical pain which can substitute "spanking" without ever using violence.I am not saying to beat the child to a pulp. I am saying a swift slap on the bottom which will sting but not leave any marks is completely acceptable in my book. All of the things you listed such as giving up a toy, place, or food as an alternative are laughable as things that today's kids could care less about. I am willing to bet that kids overall, even 20 years ago, are better behaved then today's youth. The other thing to keep in mind is our society has changed greatly in the last 30 years. Let's face it technology has in some way spoiled all of us. You take away a kids tv, oh well they still have a computer in their room. We have lcd tv's in cars, kitchens and anywhere you can possibly imagine these days. I am not blaming the rapid change in technology for the change in our youth but I am saying that it has come so quick that we haven't been able to adjust to it. I saw a 5 year old with a cell phone the other day. How can you punish today's youth by taking away material objects when there is another one to replace their freedom with in arms reach?

[JIMINATOR]

to me discipline is about doing something meaningful that hurts. as a kid my brothers and I were probably spanked more than most. like go cut me a switch, and it better not be a small one. If we were particularly bad then it was dad's belt, or mom with the coffee pot cord that left marks. ouch, whaa, whaa, yeah, that hurts, then it became an act, and then it is over, next day it was back to the same thing all over again. so I do not think it was an effective punishment. The key to kids is to have a successful relationship with them. They will need a lot of things from you but the best thing you can ever give them is a solid relationship based on trust and open communication. There have to be rules and guidelines and boundaries, but ultimately it is about parenting someone and preparing them to be functional adults in our society. We like to complain about what a poor job that our schools are doing with kids, but really that is the parent's responsibility. Certainly it is hard to have a relationship with our kids after all the other things we have to do as a part of life. It is much easier to zone out, whip out the belt to fix the problem. I just don't think it fixes anything.

[BOSTON SHOCKER]

there are far tooo many good ways to punish kids why do u have to hurt them?

i was spanked once when i was 10 and i never forgot that soo at the age of 19 i returned the favor on my old man i say you hit expect to get hit later!!

bye the way after i did that i felt much better:cool:
:banghead:
and ya jim your rite it never fixed anything just made me mad!!

[Sepra]

Nice quotes DE (interesting)

Do I spank my kids? Yes I do and I dont find anything abusive about a little discipline.

Tonight for example.......my 2, 3 and 7 year old were sitting at the kitchen table eating turkey soup. The 2 and 3 year old thought it was funny to spit the soup at eachother :confused: (being as small as they are, I guess that would be humorous) I stopped what I was doing and reprimanded them and told my 7 year old to stop laughing because it was encouraging them. Next thing I catch my 7 year old (WHO KNOWS BETTER but was having too much fun with the situation) gave the two little ones the 'eye' to repeat their game. Sooo, they spit the soup at eachother once again. Needless to say, all three of them got a spanking. The first reasoning and rationalization didn't sink in and after they all got spanked there was no more spitting and they ate with manners at the table like what's expected. :)

[solid snake295]

hitting your kids wont get you anywere except maybe put in the hospital 10 or 15 years down the road. just remember, one day your kid will probably be alot bigger then you and they will most likly remember all the times youve hit/ spanked them. if your kid does somthing so bad that its worth punishing, tell or show them why they shouldnt have done what they did. example: if your kid is playing on the road, tell them that they could get seriously hurt or die, then get on the good old internet and show them a couple of pictures of people that got hit by cars, i can gaurentee they wont do it again. if they do somthing like spitting soup at eachother, make them clean it up, and tell them that its waisting food.

i dont mean to offend anyone, but those bible quotes sound pretty stupid to me, if theres no other way to teach your kid right other then beating the evil out of him with a pole then your not trying hard enough.

[Pure_Evil]

I've been fortunate to have a child who listens real well, and being a only child, he doesn't get pursuaded to do things that may get him in trouble( Lord knows my Bro baited me often) In 4-1/2 years, I've only come close to spanking paul twice. Both were a 2 finger stinger to his thigh for trying to kick the hell out of me while trying to change diapers, both times were after verbally telling him to stop, but when he's spreading poop eveywhere, you can't waste a ton of time. Now, a loud HEY! followed by me getting eye level with him and explaining how it is does the job. Sometimes the hey is aided with a table bang to make sure I have his full attention. But like I said, that's my son. I've seen a few that trying to get your point across like that wouldn't cut it.

Spanking to get their attention is one thing, but where it becomes the parent letting loose their own frustration over their childs behavior is another :down: I've seen that way too many times, where you can see the parents rage as they aproach their child to spank.

Belts and paddles... please, if that's the route you have to go, you better pray your child doesn't seak revenge when they grow up. The excuse that that's how your parent did it to justify using a belt or paddle is even worse. break the chain so you child isn't pelting your grandchild ;)

[BobtheCkroach]

Nice quotes DE (interesting)

Do I spank my kids? Yes I do and I dont find anything abusive about a little discipline.

Tonight for example.......my 2, 3 and 7 year old were sitting at the kitchen table eating turkey soup. The 2 and 3 year old thought it was funny to spit the soup at eachother :confused: (being as small as they are, I guess that would be humorous) I stopped what I was doing and reprimanded them and told my 7 year old to stop laughing because it was encouraging them. Next thing I catch my 7 year old (WHO KNOWS BETTER but was having too much fun with the situation) gave the two little ones the 'eye' to repeat their game. Sooo, they spit the soup at eachother once again. Needless to say, all three of them got a spanking. The first reasoning and rationalization didn't sink in and after they all got spanked there was no more spitting and they ate with manners at the table like what's expected. :)

Good thing I wasn't there...I'm 21 and I woulda been laughing right along with the 7 year old. :P

And Solid, the bible quotes aren't literal, persay. The reference to a "rod" is a sign of the times thing. Go back 2000 years, and I'm sure that was a common practice. (just like paddles and belts were up until 10 years ago) It's refering to discipline in general, not specifically using a rod. I would probably guess that if you dug into some interpretations, those verses are really talking about punishment in any sense, rather than physical punishment, but that was the easiest way to communicate the idea to the people in the time that it was written. The point of that is really that a parent needs to discipline their child and to not let them run amuk, not beat your child with a stick everytime they act up. Frankly, the final version that DE gave is the one I like the best

Originally Posted by Proverbs 19:18
Chasten your son while there is hope, And do not set your heart on his destruction.

Do what you gotta to make him turn out right, but don't do it outta hatred. Do it because you love him and you're willing to do what it takes to save him from what he's not aware he's getting into.

[unforgiven]

my dad used to spank me....after while i got used to it no joke. he would hit my bare ass wit his belt i would look at him and snicker and laugh alot lol. so he had to resort to grounding which didn't work real well ethier lol. but i tell you what those spankings really gave me a good pain talorance level. thats why i laughed it just didn't hurt anymore! :eek: :D

[Sexyjess]

do ppl really have a special belt to spank the kids with!!!??? thats pretty sick and soo weird really...^^

one spank is ok but alot with a belt that the kids are used with? LOL thats over the line really

[Death Engineer]

i dont mean to offend anyone, but those bible quotes sound pretty stupid to me, if theres no other way to teach your kid right other then beating the evil out of him with a pole then your not trying hard enough.

No offense taken here. You're not arguing with me, you're arguing with the Bible. ;) If I were in your shoes, I would rather be arguing with me.

[solid snake295]

No offense taken here. You're not arguing with me, you're arguing with the Bible. ;) If I were in your shoes, I would rather be arguing with me.
lol, i just dont agree with it thats all. if god doesnt like it then i give him permission to smite my ignorant ass. :P