IP Address Question for you Network guys (Bigg, Jim, etc)

[BobtheCkroach]

Hey, I have DSL at my house. The DSL is run through a router, and there are 4 or 5 computers on the local network. I want to run a piece of software I've developed, which is a simple chat program...i'd like to host the server on one of the boxes in my house, but those all have local IP addresses...is there any way to get a global IP address on the "server box", or possibly a way to tell my router (which has a global IP) "hey, pass this on to the server box"?

More specifically, is there a way to do this without requesting (and paying for) another IP from my ISP?

[JIMINATOR]

ok, your isp provides an ip - that gets assigned to your router. from there, the other computers hook up to the router. It provides them with an IP, something like 192.168.1.100 and up. All of the computers will have IPs in the specified subnet range. If you open the router settings you can probably see what computers (names) have what IPs. If you can't access that, you can open a dos box on each computer and do an ipconfig /all to list ip information. Now the IPs assigned are dynamic, meaning that they can change every time the computer is turned on. if you want the IP to be a permanent one, do:
right click network places -> properties
lan (or wireless) connection -> properties
internet protocol (tcp/ip) -> properties
specify use the following ip address:
use the same ip you found in ipconfig,
except make the last number be 200, ie: like 192.168.1.200
You will also need to specify dns settings,
and a gateway, all the same info from ipconfig info.
if the computer can't connect after saving, try rebooting,
if still not, but the settings back to automatic.

lastly be sure that your server and possibly clients have the firewall disabled or your specific port open...

:thumbs:

[ME BIGGD01]

simple but you can get in trouble for doing it. assign the server to a specific port. most likely your isp blocked known ports so you will have to open the port and assign it to your ip address and map it to the specific computer on your network. now depending what you are doing with this server, you may need to use a server os but depending on how many users will be on this server and what ever they are doing. you can assign your dns to that address (router) but sometimes your ip will change because it is not static. there are services also that wil do this for you incase your ip changes. i forget the address to the website that offered it but someone here might remember. anyway it's pretty easy but if your isp finds out you are running a server you can be sued or be charged. if it's a chat program, you are pretty safe because i doubt that it will hog that much bandwidth. it all comes down to assigning the ports and to what computer.

[ME BIGGD01]

if you list the router, i may be able to help you with screen shots on how to configure router properly. also listthe os youplan on using for this application.

[BobtheCkroach]

but if your isp finds out you are running a server you can be sued or be charged.

Hmmm...not exactly what I had in mind...

If I called them up and talked to them, is it possible to get an exception, if I keep the bandwidth small (since i wouldn't have that many users) or prolly not?

Darn it! I just wanna try out my darn program! So, the safer way would be to pay for a second IP address (which is not really worth it...)

[Slice]

Hmmm...not exactly what I had in mind...

If I called them up and talked to them, is it possible to get an exception, if I keep the bandwidth small (since i wouldn't have that many users) or prolly not?

Darn it! I just wanna try out my darn program! So, the safer way would be to pay for a second IP address (which is not really worth it...)
That is very unlikely that your isp would even care for running such a small program. I mean it's not like you are setting up a ftp server or anything. What language did you write this chat program in?

[JIMINATOR]

oh, duh, I thought you were doing something in your internal network only. Yes, that is easy to do. use ipconfig to get your internal ip address. then configure your router similar to this... basically you are saying to the router, ok, if you get a request on port 9999 (example) I want you to send it to ip X.X.X.200 (or whatever). if you want the ip to never change if you reboot, follow instructions from above. be sure to open the port on your computer. test it out on your internal network first. if they can't connect, it won't work away from home.

[Slice]

oh, duh, I thought you were doing something in your internal network only. Yes, that is easy to do. use ipconfig to get your internal ip address. then configure your router similar to this... basically you are saying to the router, ok, if you get a request on port 9999 (example) I want you to send it to ip X.X.X.200 (or whatever). if you want the ip to never change if you reboot, follow instructions from above. be sure to open the port on your computer. test it out on your internal network first. if they can't connect, it won't work away from home.
Um yeah and the technical term for that is called port forwarding. Honestly unless you have a static ip for your WAN then it probably isn't worth it.

[BobtheCkroach]

That is very unlikely that your isp would even care for running such a small program. I mean it's not like you are setting up a ftp server or anything. What language did you write this chat program in?

I wrote it in Java.

[Slice]

I wrote it in Java.
So you wrote it in Java and you made a server side and client side version?

[BobtheCkroach]

So you wrote it in Java and you made a server side and client side version?

That would be correct, sir.

[Slice]

That would be correct, sir.
So then you know what ports it uses to communicate through right?

[BobtheCkroach]

So then you know what ports it uses to communicate through right?

Correct as well. I think I understand how to get it working, my bigger question is, a) will my ISP throw a fit, b/c even if it's unlikely, i don't feel like getting in trouble

and b) how often does my router IP change, since it's not static? once in a blue moon, or quite a lot, cause if it changes frequently, this isn't worth it anyways.

[Slice]

Correct as well. I think I understand how to get it working, my bigger question is, a) will my ISP throw a fit, b/c even if it's unlikely, i don't feel like getting in trouble

and b) how often does my router IP change, since it's not static? once in a blue moon, or quite a lot, cause if it changes frequently, this isn't worth it anyways.
You can send a copy to moir@bellsouth.net and I will be happy to try it out for you on my isp. I have a business class connection with a static ip.

[BobtheCkroach]

You can send a copy to moir@bellsouth.net and I will be happy to try it out for you on my isp. I have a business class connection with a static ip.


Kewl!

It's still got a bit to go, I was just looking to find out now.

We only have to prove that we use Sockets, for the class, so all we currently have it doing is looking to localhost, not actually finding a specific IP, and getting it to work on the web falls behind finishing projects and passing exams, but I would definitely be interested in trying it out over Christmas break if you're willing, Slice, that'd be sweet!

[BobtheCkroach]

And then, out of curiousity, so I know if I ever need to, how often does my IP address change? Is it pretty much whenever the hardware gets restarted (ie i lose power and the router is turned on again later, etc) or is it done somewhat frequently?

[Slice]

And then, out of curiousity, so I know if I ever need to, how often does my IP address change? Is it pretty much whenever the hardware gets restarted (ie i lose power and the router is turned on again later, etc) or is it done somewhat frequently?
Pretty much when you lose power or the servers get reset. You can sometimes have the same ip on dynamic for weeks.

[BobtheCkroach]

Pretty much when you lose power or the servers get reset. You can sometimes have the same ip on dynamic for weeks.

Kewl, thanx.

[SALvation]

I doubt your ISP would care. I have a server in my basement as a VNC server, web server, database server, and teamspeak server, and Comcast doesn't care.

[ME BIGGD01]

I doubt your ISP would care. I have a server in my basement as a VNC server, web server, database server, and teamspeak server, and Comcast doesn't care.
i am telling:P

i say do it. if they catch you, i think they will warn you first. slice is right that the term is port forwarding and the reason i say that is you might not have a linksys. as for my isp, they block known ports such as port 80 so i would not ru webserver but if i change websever to port 70, i change addres to ###.###.###.###:70

does anyone remember the site that offered a dns exchange? i know there are a few but hell i can not remember. it was completely free also. i think i remembe jiminator postig it once awhile ago.

[JIMINATOR]

your router may support dynamic dns, in which case you would make an account with one of the companies below and then plug in the information. your home computer would then be something like bob.domain.com. They usually have a list of domains to pick from. If your router does not support ddns, not a problem, they will have update clients available to run on one of your boxes, they will keep your ip udated. most isps do not have a problem with you running a server as long as it is not permanent, ie: aim does it for direct connect uploads, etc. They probably will block port 25, which will mean that you can't run a mail server at home, this is to block spam. Note that with some connections (like some cable I know of), you are connected to a proxy, meaning that you have no real ip address, in that case you will never be able to run a server.

[BobtheCkroach]

I doubt your ISP would care. I have a server in my basement as a VNC server, web server, database server, and teamspeak server, and Comcast doesn't care.

They don't care as in you told them and they said "whatever" or as in they've never asked, and you've never mentioned it...?

[JIMINATOR]

your isp should have a TOS available on their website somewhere. It will specify what can and can't be done. They are usually more flexible with things, unless someone is being a nuisance, then they can use the TOS to kick them...

[Fragetti]

You should assign an Ip like 192.168.1.5 and put it on the DMZ
open a port for your progam. DL this little program

No-IP DUC (Dynamic Update Client) 2.1.5
http://www.download.com/3000-2165-10055182.html?legacy=cnet

Then you should be able to reach your server from the net
Frag

[BobtheCkroach]

You should assign an Ip like 192.168.1.5 and put it on the DMZ
open a port for your progam. DL this little program

No-IP DUC (Dynamic Update Client) 2.1.5
http://www.download.com/3000-2165-10055182.html?legacy=cnet

Then you should be able to reach your server from the net
Frag

What's DMN?...and Jim, what's a TOS?

[JIMINATOR]

DMZ = demilitarized zone, sends all requests to ONE computer, everything...
TOS = terms of service
No-IP = another free dns forwarding service

[BobtheCkroach]

I'm such a noob at stuff like this...

So here are my questions.

1) I put no-ip on my comp, and I signed up for the webpage. By default, the thing runs on port # 8245 (if I understand this right). So what I'm going to do is send a request to the DNS page i set up under no-ip, and port #8245, and that will forward it to port 8245 on my router...and since my server program is listening on that port, it'll get there? Am I understanding that right?

2) How much of a security risk am I opening up in doing this stuff w/ no-ip?

And here's the pertinent section of the TOS:


Unauthorized uses - non-payment
Sharing dial-up accounts on unlimited usage plans with anyone other than immediate family members, or re-selling Service without express written consent from WMIS Internet, or offering any public information service using such accounts, such as running a web server or FTP server, is prohibited. Subscribers may not provide public or commercial information over such dial connections. WMIS Internet does offer dedicated connection services for such purposes. Untimely payment of any and all amounts due may result in account cancellation.


Sounds fairly strict...

[JIMINATOR]

the port # is what you have configured in your app. you will also need to have your router forward that port to your computers ip and you need to either disable or open the port on your computer firewall

no ip is safe, people who are doing random port scans are just using ip addresses, not no-ip names.

the TOS is fine. nobody is going to complain about running a chat program. if it was heavy bandwidth (web/ftp) then someone may have a problem.

[BobtheCkroach]

the port # is what you have configured in your app. you will also need to have your router forward that port to your computers ip and you need to either disable or open the port on your computer firewall

no ip is safe, people who are doing random port scans are just using ip addresses, not no-ip names.

the TOS is fine. nobody is going to complain about running a chat program. if it was heavy bandwidth (web/ftp) then someone may have a problem.

Thanks Jim! I think I'm gettin' it now!

Couple more questions
1)the no-ip app on my computer that I downloaded...that just tells the server what my router's IP is, correct?
2)I phrased my question a few posts ago poorly...what I actually wanted to know is...I have to tell my router to let port X through...does opening up a port like that expose my machine in any major way (significantly enough that I should worry)?

[Fragetti]

Am example I use this for my server

http://www.frag.redirectme.net/utstats/ (http://www.frag.redirectme.net/utstats/) if you go to that link you will notice my IP & port will be in the url. that little program I gave you should keep it updated. all it dose is redirect you to your IP and port if setup. you may have to tweek the DUC program.
Frag



I'm such a noob at stuff like this...

So here are my questions.

1) I put no-ip on my comp, and I signed up for the webpage. By default, the thing runs on port # 8245 (if I understand this right). So what I'm going to do is send a request to the DNS page i set up under no-ip, and port #8245, and that will forward it to port 8245 on my router...and since my server program is listening on that port, it'll get there? Am I understanding that right?

2) How much of a security risk am I opening up in doing this stuff w/ no-ip?

And here's the pertinent section of the TOS:



Sounds fairly strict...

[BobtheCkroach]

Ok, frag, 'nother question for ya.

If I just go to your main url (frag.redirectme.net) it goes to http://216.164.23.86:1057/ and shows some apache page.

When I type in my url, it opens a username/password dialog (i assume to get into my router)...so how did you get it to go specifically to port 1057, as opposed to whatever port i'm using (i can't tell b/c it doesn't switch off the url to the ## until i type in the username/password for the router, which i don't know (i'll have to ask dad)

[Fragetti]

First of all you want to use the IP address that is currently the IP your ISP has asigned you plus the port # (xxx.xxx.xx.xxx:port) (use that @ no-ip.com) and redirect it. goto your router setup and goto status it will give you your current ip. also if you go to no-ip.com it should tell you there as well. dont use the ip you assigned the server only use that on your local network to get to were you want to go.




Ok, frag, 'nother question for ya.

If I just go to your main url (frag.redirectme.net) it goes to http://216.164.23.86:1057/ and shows some apache page.

When I type in my url, it opens a username/password dialog (i assume to get into my router)...so how did you get it to go specifically to port 1057, as opposed to whatever port i'm using (i can't tell b/c it doesn't switch off the url to the ## until i type in the username/password for the router, which i don't know (i'll have to ask dad)

[Fragetti]

one more thing. if you using a linksys router and your dad didnt change the pass
you can get there by typing 192.168.1.1 pass admin no user name. becareful dont change anything in there unless you know what your doing or can change it back.
you may get a spanking from your dad lol
Frag

[Slice]

I wouldn't use DMZ for your WAN connection. That is very risky as it opens all your ports leaving your computer wide open to anyone.

[Fragetti]

I totaly agree :thumbs: he should be using DHCP (on) and setup an IP for the server below his local area network. so in other words with DHCP enabled the computers on the lan will use say 192.168.1.100 through 192.168.1.150 and the server would be setup to like 192.168.1.5 < IP on DMZ I also use zone alarm
and have not had any problems. (zone alarm can be a pain in the azz sometimes but once you figure it out it works nice)
Frag



I wouldn't use DMZ for your WAN connection. That is very risky as it opens all your ports leaving your computer wide open to anyone.

[BobtheCkroach]

I totaly agree :thumbs: he should be using DHCP (on) and setup an IP for the server below his local area network. so in other words with DHCP enabled the computers on the lan will use say 192.168.1.100 through 192.168.1.150 and the server would be setup to like 192.168.1.5 < IP on DMZ I also use zone alarm
and have not had any problems. (zone alarm can be a pain in the azz sometimes but once you figure it out it works nice)
Frag

I do have DHCP on, so once I get it finished, and class is done for the semester, i will have to look into that.

[Death Engineer]

If I could just throw my 2 cents in here....

1. To test web applications on a local network, the only thing you need to do is use your ISP's IP info for your application. For example, You can VNC to yourself through the internet provided you open the right ports on your router. This would not be particularly useful, but the point is that you can do it for testing.

To get your ISP IP address (as opposed to your LAN IP address assigned by your router), simply visit www.whatismyipaddress.com.

2. I have developed small classroom Java apps that use sockets, so if you have any questions, just post/PM me.

[BobtheCkroach]

If I could just throw my 2 cents in here....

1. To test web applications on a local network, the only thing you need to do is use your ISP's IP info for your application. For example, You can VNC to yourself through the internet provided you open the right ports on your router. This would not be particularly useful, but the point is that you can do it for testing.

To get your ISP IP address (as opposed to your LAN IP address assigned by your router), simply visit www.whatismyipaddress.com.

2. I have developed small classroom Java apps that use sockets, so if you have any questions, just post/PM me.

I'll keep that in mind - thanx DE! :thumbs: You don't happen to live in west michigan, and need an intern, i don't suppose...

[Slice]

I would just assign each computer a static ip which falls with in your routers range. This way you can point to the computer and totally forget about the DHCP. Just remember to make the default gateway changes and DNS changes so you can get on the web. If you assign permanent ip's to each computer it makes networking a whole lot easier.

[Death Engineer]

I'll keep that in mind - thanx DE! :thumbs: You don't happen to live in west michigan, and need an intern, i don't suppose...

Heh. Not right now. If I move north about 1000 miles and need an intern, I'll definitely let you know. ;)