Networking. <interlocks fingers>

[Pathos]

Hey hidey ho, kids - need a suggestion or 5 if y'all can spare a moment.

I will be building my second machine next week, however before i place my order for parts for said unit i wish to include what i will need to network the two (to save on freight). Now, put simply, i know sweet jack all about networking! Zero experience. Zip. Nada. <ad lib to fade> I have never owned more than 1 machine and thus never gave it a second thought. (Like if i found myself in a menage a trois.. where to begin?!)

So my question becomes: What will i need? I will be using the two machines for, well, gaming. That's it. Nothing else. <chuckle> How difficult will it be to have them share my ADSL connection? Will this influence what i need to buy?

Here are my two systems FYI:

1.
Athlon XP 1800+
Mobo: A7V266E
GFX: Geforce 3
RAM: 512 DDR 2100
HD: 60GIG 7200
PSU: 350WATTS

2. (system to be ordered)
Athlon XP 2200+
Mobo: KT333 (unsure on final choice just yet)
GFX: Geforce 4 Ti 4200
RAM: 512 DDR 2700
HD: 80GIG 7200
PSU: 400WATTS

Both have a Sony CDR and an Audigy soundcard, and are thus firewire enabled, if that makes any difference.

Again, i'm a noob in this department, and any advice would be terrific.

Cheers.

EDIT: Both running under WindowsXP Home

[Crism]

You need a router, I suggest the Linksys BEFSR41, thats the one I'm gonna get. I say I good deal at CompUSA for it a few weeks ago. Be sure to shop around for the best prices of it. And then you need 2 network cards. You can get a cheap one. The 2nd PC might have it onboard. A good manual for this is http://www.motherboards.org/articlesd/how-to-guides/1184_1.html

[OUTLAWS high ping camper]

Hey Pathos! Good luck with your PC's. I wish I could help you. But I don't know enough, to be of any help.
I bought a motherboard, CPU, RAM, and a case last Friday. All I did was look through advertisements for "gaming systems" (PC's) and copied down what they had in them. Again, I wish you good luck.
I gotta go to work now! Seeya :)

[Pathos]

Gracias for the link, Disturbance! That guide is exactly what i needed - should answer most of my questions.

How does router quality affect performance? I'll check out the one you mentioned. And thanks for the heads up on CompUSA, but calling from Sydney i'll have to find what i need a little closer to home.

And HPC thanks for the thought, regardless! <thumbs up>

[Crism]

pathos, best buy has the router for $50 US! Its with 2 rebates!

[OUTLAWS The Machine]

Well I have a router and 2 network cards like has been suggested already. Hammer does not use a router in his configuration. He probably can help you with a lesser expensive way of networking them. If you are using WinblowsXP setup is relly easy. Windoze98 might be just a little more time consuming but it should still go smoothly. Keep us posted.

[Pathos]

Thanks fellas!

You know, here i am narrowing down every component for this new system, and what galls me the most is having to pay for ANOTHER frikkin copy of Windows XP! I mean for F's sake!. <seethe>

[OUTLAWS The Machine]

That is total BS isn't it?

[OUTLAWS WHOCARES]

If you need a copy of xp pro PM me and we will talk.

[MR. SLiK]

Cant you just use a Switch instead of a router.

[Big Steve]

Your main machine that is connected directly to your internet provider just ad a second network card.
Then with a crosover cable connect the two machines.

then insert your Xp cd and select perform additional tasks..then select setup home or small office network..

you will need to do thisin both machines..then just follow the prompts..

it is simple..if you need more help MSN me and i will guide you throught..

Let me know what you are paying for your parts..i may be able to help you with good prices...

[Pathos]

Hmm. Thanks again for the input.

Well the best hub/starter kit according to most reviews i'm seeing is the D-LINK DFE-910 10/100. But it's around $240 Australian!

A friend suggested what you just advised BigSteve - just get an NIC for both and a cable between the two, and that it can be done for around $70. No router. If this works just fine then what exactly will i be missing out on by NOT having the router? (I don't plan on linking any more than 2 machines atm) <scratches head>

[MR. SLiK]

I got a D-Link 5 port dual switch for $50 US at best buy. Worked perfectly when my friend plugged his DSL in it for both of us to use.

[Crism]

get the Linksys BEFSR41. I hear a LOT of good things about it...its on dale at Best Buy for $50US

[Big Steve]

The only thing that you will be missing is..

the computer that is directly connected to the internet has to be on if you want to use the internet on the other one...

so it acts as a server..

That is the only diferance..

with a router

the router connect to the internet and what ever pc is pluged in can access the net..and you can plug more pc's in..

and yeh that is about the price for a router in OZ..

when you by a nic..buy a good one..like 3com or intel...

I usually buy them for about $15 secondhand..

[Grimmy]

If you use one as a server, and playing/gaming on the other, won't the server slow you down if you are gaming on a server?? Reason I ask, at school we played SS:FE over the network, and had one puter as the server, and it was laggy as hell, so we tried something else. My puter got internet from another (running win2000server) and had a server running on a different maching, and the server lagged me out.

I am not good at networking either, but thenk god for xp, it does most everything for ya heheheh

[Big Steve]

Yes that is what i found too..if you use one puter as a server for SE it is laggy..

I meant one pc will act as a server for the internet so the other pc can access the net too..

[Pathos]

Okay now i've got some people telling me to get a Hub, and others a Switch! I'll pretend i know the difference. <tears hair out> I'm going to hit the town today and see what i can dig up - see if price can decide it for me.

Oh, and i'll be building my new machine today. <salivates> If the ground starts to shake and you see a mushroom cloud eminating from the southern hemisphere then you'll know it was the blue wire i should have cut, not the red!

I always get those two confused. <infectious "Oh Pathos" music plays>

Thanks to all those who helped out - you've been a big help! Will keep you posted. (How exciting - it's like the end of part 1 of Trek's "The Best of Both Worlds".. except less interesting, i don't have cybernetic implants, and i'm not wearing tights. <ponder>)

[Note To Self: Don't post at 6am..]

[Nobody]

If you can get the router suggested above it is the best way to go. The BEFSR41 is a router/4port 10/100 switch combo unit. I really recommend the router for always on connections so you don't have to install a software firewall. The BEFSR41 is a Linksys by the way and I got mine for 50 bucks and never regretted it.

[FUS1ON]

[quote:1437068be9="Nobody"]If you can get the router suggested above it is the best way to go. The BEFSR41 is a router/4port 10/100 switch combo unit. I really recommend the router for always on connections so you don't have to install a software firewall. The BEFSR41 is a Linksys by the way and I got mine for 50 bucks and never regretted it.[/quote:1437068be9]

Same here. It's very easy to set up and works great.

[HAMMER]

You do NOT need a router. You can make one machine a DHCP server and ICS gateway in one shot. It's easy, and I would be willing to send you a short tutorial about it. I run WinXP pro, which keeps my firewall requirements up to date.

You need two network cards obviously, and either a switch or a hub. You will not notice the difference between a switch or hub, so let the $$$ make that choice for you. Make sure whatever you get is 100mb capable.

A hub is nothing but a spider connector to physically connect multiple computers. Hubs work by broadcasting packets to all nodes, and the receiving computer receives the packets.

A switch is more like a smart hub. It uses packet headers and port switching to make sure that ONLY the port sending the packet and the port receiving the packet are active. It also scans ports when multiple computers are connected, allowing access to the full bandwidth instead of a shared part of it.

BUT...in the case of two computers, or even three, or four, you will NEVER know the difference regardless of what you hear.

It's your call on the router. Routers are better because you don't have to have a PC turned on to access the internet, but routerless is cheaper....and that's what I'm all about...cheap.

[HAMMER]

Actually, if you REALLY want to get cheap...you don't even need a switch/hub. You could run a crossover cable LOL

[SALvation]

Sounds like someone just volunteered to write an article for our homepage on how to network your PCs. :D

[Pathos]

Gracias fellas!

After a few dramas i FINALLY got the new computer together and working! WAHOO! <spinning, aerial self-hi five> Only took, oh, 7 hours! Thanks HEAPS especially to BigSteve for the big helping hand - i found the HD problem in the end and it is now running like greased lightning! <fawn>

Here is what i "settled for" in the end:

- AMD Athlon XP 2200+
- Winfast Geforce4 A250 DDR 128MB Titanium 4400 TD
- Gigabyte 7VAXP AGP8X DDR400 Motherboard (This mobo rocks hard)
- 512M PC2700 DDR RAM
- 80G Western Digital Caviar 7200rpm HDD (8Mb Cache)
- 17 inch Monitor (the low point perhaps)
- Creative Sound Blaster Audigy
- VERY nice Case with 2 side 80mm fans blowing in, 1 80mm on the top venting air out, and 1 on the rear. I have 2 more fans on the mobo and it is running at a cool, stable 34c. Amazingly, it is NO noisier than my current setup! Those with girlfriends will understand the importance of this. <thumbs up>

Cheers Machine for the "advice" on the 4400 - i did not need much convincing! <chuckle> Though I will forego the overclocking for now i think. Also took your advice on the heatsink and fan - ta.

In all this, I forgot one key element - a bloody table! <stares at shining new computer.. sitting on the f'ing ground!>

On the network side of things i ended up buying a quality Switch and 2 brand name NIC's. Thanks to all those who helped me out here - it really made a world of difference! Thanks to you all i walked in there with a cocky, "Networking is for babies" demeanour which won me no friends but scored big with the passing uber-nerds. Yes.. for one brief moment... i touched their lives!

As it turns out, my mobo does not even NEED an NIC! It has it onboard <gobsmacked> Even better. Will spend the rest of the night updating drivers <rolls eyes>, otherwise i'm sure the network side will be little drama compared to all the crap i just went through.

Thanks again. Have a pre-loved soggy chew toy on me. ;)

[HAMMER]

[quote:773572dfed="SALvation"]Sounds like someone just volunteered to write an article for our homepage on how to network your PCs. :D[/quote:773572dfed]

Well, I'd be happy to. I am a Network Engineer. That's my bag baby.

[SALvation]

Your deadline is in 1 hour! *cracks whip*

:bad-words:

[Goober]

[quote:d00410bf63="SALvation"]Your deadline is in 1 hour! *cracks whip*

:bad-words:[/quote:d00410bf63]

Times up.....LOL :rolf:

But Seriously...I think it would be great if you did..

I have both my computors hooked to the net through a router...But When I went to network them to each other using winxp pro.....It said it was a bad security risk.....so I stopped........I have win 98 on the other...But it would be nice to share files....but not with the rest of the world....So take your time....I'll give you 2 hours....LOL....
Thanks from your favorite target.........Goober

[HAMMER]

Just go ahead and network your two computers together, but do all your sharing from the 98 box. Win98 will always be a security risk no matter what you do. It's security is simple...it has none. LOL

You would do better to set your computer up as an ICS gateway, and network the 98 machine ONLY to your machine, then your machine out to the 'net. This way you are passing through NAT translation before you hit the internet. Your 98 computer will not directly be visible from the internet. That way you maintain maximum security.

[Goober]

[quote:36f0c8fae8="HAMMER"]Just go ahead and network your two computers together, but do all your sharing from the 98 box. Win98 will always be a security risk no matter what you do. It's security is simple...it has none. LOL

You would do better to set your computer up as an ICS gateway, and network the 98 machine ONLY to your machine, then your machine out to the 'net. This way you are passing through NAT translation before you hit the internet. Your 98 computer will not directly be visible from the internet. That way you maintain maximum security.[/quote:36f0c8fae8]

So would I need another lan card in my xp computor...so that the path would look like this 98 lan to xp lan....xp lan to router??

[HAMMER]

You got it my brotha. Set up the public network card (the one that sees the router) as your ICS gateway, and then set any clients connected to the other network card as DHCP clients, and they will receive IP automatically, and be covered behind your XP security.

[HAMMER]

This is precisely the configuration I have at home, except I don't even have a router :)

[Goober]

Thank you Hammer < running out the door to buy new card>
I appreciate all your help :D

Your clueless (lan,internet,network) friend.........goober

[HAMMER]

Goober, your avatar cracks me up LOL