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Thundarr
05-21-2005, 02:51 AM
I really enjoyed this rant until he started yammering about violence in games... :rolleyes:

Playing at Life
Language can be a source of tension in my home and native land of Canada. The French/English divide has been a major inspiration behind the calls from some quarters for Québec separation. With its inherent linguistic challenges, you would think that the last thing Canada needs is a new language. So why did a company in Edmonton, Alberta, hire a University of Alberta Ph.D. candidate to develop a totally new language for use in a video game? I didn't aim that high in my academic career, but doesn't a Ph.D. candidate have anything better to do with his time? Does Canada really need this? Does the world really need this?

(For the benefit of those who are unfamiliar with Canadian geography, Edmonton is a Canadian city and the capital of Alberta. As of the time of writing, Alberta and Québec are two of Canada's ten provinces, but please don't remind members of le Parti Québécois or le Bloc Québécois of that fact. It tends to make them rather depressed.)

According to an April 19, 2005, article in the New York Times, Edmonton-based BioWare, the makers of Jade Empire, produced about 10% of the game's 15,000 lines of pre-recorded speech in an Asian-sounding language of its own devising, which it named Tho Fan. The company then went on to have four more fake languages created for another of its games, Dragon Age.

I have enough trouble writing and speaking English well; now they want me to learn a whole new language just to play a video game. I don't think so. It's hard to comprehend why anyone other than a linguist or student of ancient Latin texts would bother learning Latin when it's a dead language, but since so many modern languages were derived from it and it has historical significance, at least you can understand that. But why should I learn an entirely new, totally fabricated language that nobody speaks on a regular basis? What's the point of that? The game displays subtitles whenever the characters are speaking Tho Fan, so you don't actually have to learn the language to play the game, but that isn't stopping some game fanatics. I checked the forum that the developer created for the game and at least one loyal player is looking for sources of Tho Fan language instruction.

The New York Times article pointed out that editions of Hamlet and the ancient Babylonian epic Gilgamesh have been published in a language, Klingon, that was fabricated for another work of fiction, Star Trek. To the best of my knowledge, nothing like that has happened with Tho Fan or any other language created for a video game, but if the game proves popular enough, you just know that some geeks are eventually going to get around to doing something like that. The fact that it has already been done in Klingon just goes to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that some people have way too much time on their hands.

I suppose I shouldn't be so negative. Instead, I should be thankful that the need to read subtitles may help to improve literacy skills, thereby allowing more people to read this column--if they would only take their eyes off the game screen long enough to do so.

By way of full disclosure, I should say that I don't play video games. One of the most difficult trials that I have ever faced and won was kicking my intense addiction to the simple Solitaire game that comes with Microsoft Windows. It was beginning to take over my life and was a mammoth monkey on my back. I'm very proud of being able to beat that addiction, but I know how easy it would be to slip off the wagon. I become petrified just thinking of how hooked I might get if I were to try a more engaging game. Therefore, my stand on these addictive distractions is "Just say no."

Personally, I think that it's all part of an evil conspiracy. I can't prove it, but I'm convinced that video games are a terrorist plot designed to distract us and prevent us from doing anything productive, while frying our brains in the process. Freedom is at stake.

What I really want to know, more than why a game-maker would feel the need to create a new language or why there is no public outcry over such addictive pursuits, is why the powers-that-be allow most video games to be widely distributed with incredibly violent content when everyone knows that, regardless of the adult rating assigned to them, or perhaps because of the adult rating assigned to them, kids are going to be playing these games in large numbers.

I don't get it. Janet Jackson very briefly flashed one breast, just one mind you, at a Super Bowl half-time show, and it was front-page news for weeks. Government regulators invested considerable resources trying to figure out how to prevent a recurrence of such a catastrophe. And a large segment of the population went ballistic over how that disgusting case of sheer exhibitionism was going to thoroughly corrupt our youth and utterly destroy the moral fiber of one or more whole generations.

Those same generations can totally engross themselves in very graphic and realistic-looking video games that, in order to progress to the next, more violent level, require players to steal lots of stuff and/or brutally kill as many people and/or creatures as possible. But hey, that's just good clean fun. Some of these games bring new and terrifying meaning to the term "killer application."

Just good clean fun is it? Well, I don't envy the judge who is going to have to make that decision. There is now a lawsuit outstanding against the makers of the game Grand Theft Auto because an 18-year-old who played it for hundreds of hours went out and imitated some of the action in the game, killing three real-life people, including two police officers, in the process. By the way, this person bought the game while he was still a minor. Oh yeah, that game is something that we want to put into the hands of impressionable kids. According to CBS News, when captured, the perpetrator said, "Life is like a video game. Everybody's got to die sometime."

Now there's a great philosophy for you: Life is like a video game. According to this sick individual, apparently the highest aspiration of the human spirit is to become the most vicious crime lord possible by killing a lot of people and stealing a lot of cars, among other things. Life is like a video game. Too bad that, when you grow tired or disgusted with this life, you can't just go out to the store and buy a new one for $39.99 or $49.99 for the deluxe version.

Am I missing something, or do the people who fretted endlessly and vociferously about Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction" but are not terribly concerned about the graphic, explicit, and extreme violence of video games (not to mention television and movies) have their moral priorities just a tad out of whack?

The violence of video games brings up another point. I keep hearing about how creative the game designers are. Oh yeah? Why is it that the best they can come up with is something based on excessive death and destruction? That seems rather unimaginative, considering how much of it there already is in the real world.

If game creators really wanted to prove their creativity, they would invent an engaging game, one that millions of people would want to buy and play, that has as its primary objective the achievement of complete freedom, democracy, and justice for all characters in the game, while using the least amount of violence as possible to achieve that objective.

In my game, you would lose 500 points for every person you killed and 100 points for every person maimed. You'd gain 100 points for every minor conflict and 500 points for every major conflict that you resolved without bloodshed. Finding a way to replace an evil dictator's regime with a stable, free, and fair democracy without spilling any blood would get you one million points. You'd get extra points if, during your bloodless revolution, you also improved the food, service, décor, and prices at local restaurants. There'd be more points if you, through talk alone, convinced local taxi drivers to obey traffic laws and drive safely. (I'd personally like to invite anyone who reaches that level in the game to come and visit Toronto. We need you.)

There would also be bonus points for being smart enough to throw away any simulated electronic gadgets that, while intended to improve human communications, actually served to weaken relationships between characters in the game. But that's just a personal pet peeve. And there'd be even more points for having an avatar-to-avatar personal conversation without the use of any of the electronic tools remaining in your virtual satchel.

To make it popular with young and not-so-young (oh, I don't know, say about 52, just to pull an age out of the air) male audiences, the game will probably have to have a few scantily clad, busty, young virtual women among its cast of characters. That will undoubtedly greatly offend the "moral majority" and feminist groups, but that's a small price to pay for a peaceful world, even if it is only a virtual one.

That sounds like a great game to me. I don't hold any legal rights to the idea, so game developers are welcome to it for free. Of course, if you should feel duty-bound to pay me a seven-figure honorarium, I wouldn't be so proud as to turn it down.

Then again, maybe a game based on peace, love, and cooperation is too "liberal" for this day and age. Who knows? Somebody might become hopelessly addicted to it and begin to have difficulty distinguishing between the game and reality. Then they might go out and foolishly try to solve some of the real world's problems peaceably. Heaven forbid. We couldn't have that, now could we?

Joel Klebanoff is a consultant, a writer, and president of Klebanoff Associates, Inc., a Toronto, Canada-based marketing communications firm. Joel has 25 years experience working in IT, first as a programmer/analyst and then as a marketer. He holds a Bachelor of Science in computer science and an MBA, both from the University of Toronto. Contact Joel at joel@klebanoff.com. One of his many regrets in life is that he doesn't seem to have a faculty for learning new (real or fake) languages. In his younger days, he learned one sentence, the same sentence, in French and Hebrew. In Hebrew, it's (phonetically) "Ah-nee lo yo-daya." In French, it's "Je ne sais pas." In English, it's "I don't know." That sentence allowed him to answer any questions teachers asked in French class or Hebrew school. Does anyone know how to say it in Tho Fat?

From Sal:

I was just contacted by the author and wanted to add this information regarding the article:

Reprinted with permission from MC TNT, published by MC Press, LP; http://www.mcpressonline.com (http://www.mcpressonline.com/).

Caged Anger
05-21-2005, 11:22 AM
meh, to each their own, I didn't particularly care for his opinion on violent games. Entirely too similar to my Dad's idea of a video games.

The problem is that this guy is overlooking the fact that there are a ton of other benefits to video games, even when their violent. Heck, maybe only when they're violent. UT2004, QIII, and even SS can give wonderful lessons in what it takes to work on a team to accomplish a goal. The brain is far more active in any video game than reading a book and I don't believe that should be taken lightly.

There is also missed the idea of all the people you can meet in games.
I MET EXE WHO LEAD ME HERE!!!
I have more friends scattered all over the world than I even have at home. I met KillMe and we regularly talk and even have sent packages to each other. I met another Adam out in Michigan that I'm also good friends with and plan on sending stuff to. Games allowed me to meet these people and whats wrong with that?

hehe, my bad...started rambling....people who talk like that guy tend to get on my nerves

Mad Fox
05-21-2005, 01:47 PM
AWWW I don't know its sounded good than got really bad..

TheMaster
05-21-2005, 01:54 PM
To me, video games are a way to kill time and meet friends, not to meet friends and kill other people. Also they help me to concentrate on more crucial matters like my school work and what not.


I met another Adam out in Michigan that I'm also good friends with and plan on sending stuff to.

That would be me for those who didn't know. :thumbs:

Caged Anger
05-21-2005, 06:25 PM
"To me, video games are a way to kill time and meet friends, not to meet friends..."
Um...Master? I think you have a typo up there.

And let's not forget the very important stress relieving properties the games can have too

TheMaster
05-21-2005, 10:11 PM
I might have caused some confusion there, but I use games to kill time and for association, not to get violent ideas in my head. People don't play video games because they really do want to become a killer. They play to have fun, and to relieve stress as you said. If video games are responsible for murder, rape, and what not in real life, then such games would be banned by now, but they're not.

Thundarr
05-23-2005, 06:47 AM
Yah, that's what I was meaning, I mean the whole part about the violence in games, I think is hooey, but the beginning was actually pretty good... I do begin to wonder when people make up a new language for a game, I just found that a little over the top as far as RPG's go...

Caged Anger
05-23-2005, 06:29 PM
yes...and yet, maybe no. The fact that a new language is being used and actually is becoming widely known is never something to put down. Heck, how would we have any other languages?

Don't get my point wrong though, it is a little extreme, but its definately creative!

jmk52
03-06-2006, 12:10 AM
I think this article is an outrage and an affront to all loyal gamers! Now, to add insult to injury, MC Press has published a book, BYTE-ing Satire, compiling this jerk’s weekly columns. The book has been available from the publisher for a few months now, and is expected to be in bookstores in April 2006. It’s already available for preorder from the online bookstores.

I definitely think that all dedicated gamers should go out, buy several copies of Joel Klebanoff’s BYTE-ing Satire and then burn them in protest. It would serve him right!

Signed,
Joel Klebanoff :rolleyes:

SoulReaver
03-06-2006, 01:30 AM
I think this article is an outrage and an affront to all loyal gamers! Now, to add insult to injury, MC Press has published a book, BYTE-ing Satire, compiling this jerk’s weekly columns. The book has been available from the publisher for a few months now, and is expected to be in bookstores in April 2006. It’s already available for preorder from the online bookstores.

I definitely think that all dedicated gamers should go out, buy several copies of Joel Klebanoff’s BYTE-ing Satire and then burn them in protest. It would serve him right!

Signed,
Joel Klebanoff :rolleyes: Geez, anyone else tired with the amount of people registering lately to advertise something? First Socom and now this. :rolleyes:

jmk52
03-06-2006, 01:33 AM
Geez, anyone else tired with the amount of people registering lately to advertise something? First Socom and now this. :rolleyes:
Geez, if somebody feels absolutely free to post a complete and verbatim copy of my work, without first asking my permission, I think I should at least be able to respond.:cool:

EXEcution
03-06-2006, 02:40 AM
Geez, if somebody feels absolutely free to post a complete and verbatim copy of my work, without first asking my permission, I think I should at least be able to respond.:cool:
Yes but she did quote your work and even posted your email address going beyond what people normally do when they disagree with your opinion.

"Personally, I think that it's all part of an evil conspiracy. I can't prove it, but I'm convinced that video games are a terrorist plot designed to distract us and prevent us from doing anything productive, while frying our brains in the process. Freedom is at stake."

This statement in particualr caught my attention. As an intelligent human being we need to look at both sides of things instead of trying to make nonsense out of something that makes perfect sense (the fact that games are for the many people that enjoy them for their replay value)

You can apply the same logic to Hollywood and the movies which force you to spend hundreds of dollars each year to do nothing but sit and watch a bunch of still images in motion on screen.

Your points are baseless, you are a hypocrite, and you purposely dig up old threads in hopes of starting an argument. Go home and keep away from games. They won't hurt you if you don't play them.

jmk52
03-06-2006, 02:51 AM
"Personally, I think that it's all part of an evil conspiracy. I can't prove it, but I'm convinced that video games are a terrorist plot designed to distract us and prevent us from doing anything productive, while frying our brains in the process. Freedom is at stake."

This statement in particualr caught my attention. As an intelligent human being we need to look at both sides of things instead of trying to make nonsense out of something that makes perfect sense (the fact that games are for the many people that enjoy them for their replay value)


If I thought for a moment that anyone would have taken me seriously when I wrote that, I would never have written it. That's the problem with taking things out of context. Regular readers of my columns know that almost everything I say I say in jest.

EXEcution
03-06-2006, 03:11 AM
If I thought for a moment that anyone would have taken me seriously when I wrote that, I would never have written it. That's the problem with taking things out of context. Regular readers of my columns know that almost everything I say I say in jest.
Well you may be funny to your little audience of 30 or 40 year old non-gamers who have no idea what gaming is about, but not to me. So please just let me take in your column as I see fit.

You don't game, at least that's what I was lead to believe by your little rant. Or maybe you do and you just like making light of the fact that you do. Either way you have no idea of what gaming is and isn't. People on professional gaming sites actually would look at your satirical piece and laugh.... at you for not knowing that to be satirical you might actually need just a tad more facts. Not the obvious "OH LOOK SOMEONE DIED BECAUSE THEY PLAYED A GAME LOLOLOL" "Let's use that in a way to make fun of gaming".

JIMINATOR
03-06-2006, 03:28 AM
wow, looks like anyone with google can find probably lots of sites with stuff they had previously written. Just hope nobody looks up "sheep threesomes"...

ME BIGGD01
03-06-2006, 03:55 AM
Ok people, I am going to say it as I see it.

First about the article, I am going to agree to most of it and explain why.

I do think that games are too violent but not the reason people go nuts and blame the actual game. I think it is society in full that makes things so extreme.

As a father, there is no way I am letting my daughter play a game where there is nothing but senseless killing and cursing or sexual content. Games like Grand Theft Auto should not be considered to any child. I do not think I need to explain why due to the graphic nature of the game.

I think what the person in the article was saying is how is one thing ok and not another. Really the point of Janets Jacksons tit being showed was made into some big deal yet there are far more serious events happening daily on television and the radio also games. A womans breast is natural but people look at it as porn or obscene. All in all, I think JJ's actions was classless since it was on television with children watching. I think the point is how can anyone get upset with that and not what is in the music or games or tv.

As a father I feel it is my responsibility to raise my child in a clean environment without the need to play games that hate kill or involve sex. As a parent it is very hard to prevent a lot of this material considering even watching Disney, they have the kids dressed like adults wearing makeup and short cur clothes. What happened to the mouse ears or the clean entertainment. Lets look at all the shows on TV and see what they are about. All citcoms have atleast 1 gay couple, 1 black guy with a blonde woman, single parents yet life is funny in these shows. Then you have musice where they sing about sex, killing, robbery, drugs. Back in the days they song about love or war but this is not the case anymore. It does have an effect on the people listening and watching it as it seems to be normal after day in and day out. This is what society has become and parents today seem not to have control of their kids and don't take responsibility for anything. Kids tell their parents what to do today and parents give in too easy. Coming from a very strict household as a child with 8 kids in the house, it was like bootcamp and nobody stepped out of line or they would get a beating they would not forget. I do not agree on beating your children but what ever it takes to teach your children respect is another thing. I have this theory about parenting and it has to do is making sure you let nothing slide and pay attention to everything your child is doing or involved in. I think being there for your children and giving love will be enough to raise your children but that does not mean to ignore what society has become. I do not playthe radio when my daughter is in the car because the music is not what I want my daughter to listen to. Not yet atleast until she matures to understand what they are saying and if it's right or wrong. This is the job of all parents. I go to the mall and see kids that are under 16 and they have their tits out, tongue pirced, belly pierced and dressed as if they were over 18. I honestly think to myself that their parents are just a bunch of a-holes for not paying attention and can only imagine what these children are being raised to be in the future. Due to this nature of our society, it is already starting to show where it is heading as our children score lower in tests then third world countries. That does not look promising for our future. It also shows when you see the attitude of the younger kids working at Mcdonalds or supermarket when they do not understand or care about the customer. This is not looking good for the future work force. Not once have I had a kid come to my door looking to make 20 bucks shoveling my driveway or mowing my lawn but their are illegals doing all the landscaping these days ( I do my own work thank you). I bet there are people in their 30's that can relate to what I am saying and can remember their younger days when making 10 bucks doing odds and ends to make a few bucks. We were workers and had to earn what we wanted. Times have changed and so has society.

So nobody can just pick one thing and blame that as the root of evil. When I was a kid, games like Donkey kong, Defender, PacMan, Atsreoids were not violent games yet it was still considered gaming. Todays Games are just part of daily society that matches the rest of it.

It is up to every parent to raise their children regardless of any content. It does seem harder today considering everything offered as it seems easier just to give in to it. I guess at the end, one must judge themself as a parent when they see how their child is able to make it in the real world with out you.

I am speaking as a Dad which makes me keep my eyes open to everything so I am aware of what is going on. If I close my eyes, it's my own fault.

ME BIGGD01
03-06-2006, 04:04 AM
I want to make it clear about my comment regarding the citcoms. Regardless of my opinion of some of the things I mentioned about them, I do not intend to bring my opinion up about them. I mentioned it for the reason they have to make a point of having it on every citcom. If you do not understand the point I am trying to make, please disregard it.

EXEcution
03-06-2006, 04:21 AM
Ok people, I am going to say it as I see it.

First about the article, I am going to agree to most of it and explain why.

I do think that games are too violent but not the reason people go nuts and blame the actual game. I think it is society in full that makes things so extreme.

As a father, there is no way I am letting my daughter play a game where there is nothing but senseless killing and cursing or sexual content. Games like Grand Theft Auto should not be considered to any child. I do not think I need to explain why due to the graphic nature of the game.

I think what the person in the article was saying is how is one thing ok and not another. Really the point of Janets Jacksons tit being showed was made into some big deal yet there are far more serious events happening daily on television and the radio also games. A womans breast is natural but people look at it as porn or obscene. All in all, I think JJ's actions was classless since it was on television with children watching. I think the point is how can anyone get upset with that and not what is in the music or games or tv.

As a father I feel it is my responsibility to raise my child in a clean environment without the need to play games that hate kill or involve sex. As a parent it is very hard to prevent a lot of this material considering even watching Disney, they have the kids dressed like adults wearing makeup and short cur clothes. What happened to the mouse ears or the clean entertainment. Lets look at all the shows on TV and see what they are about. All citcoms have atleast 1 gay couple, 1 black guy with a blonde woman, single parents yet life is funny in these shows. Then you have musice where they sing about sex, killing, robbery, drugs. Back in the days they song about love or war but this is not the case anymore. It does have an effect on the people listening and watching it as it seems to be normal after day in and day out. This is what society has become and parents today seem not to have control of their kids and don't take responsibility for anything. Kids tell their parents what to do today and parents give in too easy. Coming from a very strict household as a child with 8 kids in the house, it was like bootcamp and nobody stepped out of line or they would get a beating they would not forget. I do not agree on beating your children but what ever it takes to teach your children respect is another thing. I have this theory about parenting and it has to do is making sure you let nothing slide and pay attention to everything your child is doing or involved in. I think being there for your children and giving love will be enough to raise your children but that does not mean to ignore what society has become. I do not playthe radio when my daughter is in the car because the music is not what I want my daughter to listen to. Not yet atleast until she matures to understand what they are saying and if it's right or wrong. This is the job of all parents. I go to the mall and see kids that are under 16 and they have their tits out, tongue pirced, belly pierced and dressed as if they were over 18. I honestly think to myself that their parents are just a bunch of a-holes for not paying attention and can only imagine what these children are being raised to be in the future. Due to this nature of our society, it is already starting to show where it is heading as our children score lower in tests then third world countries. That does not look promising for our future. It also shows when you see the attitude of the younger kids working at Mcdonalds or supermarket when they do not understand or care about the customer. This is not looking good for the future work force. Not once have I had a kid come to my door looking to make 20 bucks shoveling my driveway or mowing my lawn but their are illegals doing all the landscaping these days ( I do my own work thank you). I bet there are people in their 30's that can relate to what I am saying and can remember their younger days when making 10 bucks doing odds and ends to make a few bucks. We were workers and had to earn what we wanted. Times have changed and so has society.

So nobody can just pick one thing and blame that as the root of evil. When I was a kid, games like Donkey kong, Defender, PacMan, Atsreoids were not violent games yet it was still considered gaming. Todays Games are just part of daily society that matches the rest of it.

It is up to every parent to raise their children regardless of any content. It does seem harder today considering everything offered as it seems easier just to give in to it. I guess at the end, one must judge themself as a parent when they see how their child is able to make it in the real world with out you.

I am speaking as a Dad which makes me keep my eyes open to everything so I am aware of what is going on. If I close my eyes, it's my own fault.
Very good. You are a great parent. Personally I grew up in Russia, I was strictly disciplined, teachers were allowed to beat children if they got out of hand and I remeber several of those experiences. But I was able to make friends, study and work hard in school. I was not exposed to much violence, except maybe an American movie with Stallone or Schwarzenegger.

I played Doom on the PC when I was around 6.

After a while I moved to America and there I first got my gaming system. I did not have a PC for about 6 years in America, and I really bore no interest in onlline PC games. My N64 seemed like the perfect system. Yeat I played some Goldeneye and then some. In the realm of "violent" games, none of them really struck me as being "too violent". I played GTA3 at my friends house and that didn't really change my opinion about violence in games.

To me it just seems too fake to be real, unlike in a movie where violence is much brutal and realistic. I would rather have my kid playing GTA3 when he's 10 than watching Fight Club, or the Godfather. Both great movies, very tastefull may I add, but not for kids.

As for music, I have a 10 year old brother and whenever he goes for a ride with me in the car I have my music on pretty loud. Yes sometimes I have Wu-Tang Clan on and in most of their songs every other word is either the 'N-word' or the 'F-word'. Well my brother has heard all of these before but he can't really apply them. Sure he can go to school and call someone the 'N-word' but he is well aware of the consequences and he will NOT do it. The day he gets in trouble for calling someone an obscene name will be the day I no longer curse in the house or have my music on when he's in the car with me.

Knowing and using are two different things. I can know about drugs and I do, but I don't use them. I know about and use profanity, but from my point of view, they are just words. Meaningless, unless you go out on the streets of Philly (which is the city I live about 20 mins away from) and start cussin random people out then you WILL know the consequences. I perfer knowing ahead. Don't keep your children ignorant. They can only make choices if you (over time) teach them the right things and the wrong things because otherwise they will not be able to distinguish the two.

Pure_Evil
03-06-2006, 01:04 PM
Caged, you should repost your school prodject that you did on violent video games, it was quite impressive :D

jmk52
03-06-2006, 01:59 PM
I think what the person in the article was saying is how is one thing ok and not another. Really the point of Janets Jacksons tit being showed was made into some big deal yet there are far more serious events happening daily on television and the radio also games. A womans breast is natural but people look at it as porn or obscene. All in all, I think JJ's actions was classless since it was on television with children watching. I think the point is how can anyone get upset with that and not what is in the music or games or tv.


Yes, that was primarily what I was saying. I was questioning people's priorities. In the interest of attempting to be humorous (some people think I succeed, some think I fail) I do exaggerate things and I don’t bother to include some facts that I don’t think will add to the humor–-facts such as some recent studies have found little correlation between the playing of violent video games and real-life violent behavior, and other studies that indicate that gaming has positive effects such as improved response times and the improvement of some types of mental abilities. (Maybe that’s my problem. I’m not a gamer, so I have underdeveloped mental abilities.)

Based on what you wrote, I suspect that we differ considerably in what troubles us about what appears on television and in movies (I’m not a parent; maybe my views would be different if I were), but, yes, my point was that I think it’s a bit strange that many people became incensed over the very brief depiction, accidental or not, of a female breast, but many of those same people do not give even a second thought to the graphic depiction of violence in the various media.