My new computer (w/ pics and questions)

[OUTLAWS 9.99repeating^32]

It's been awhile since I've posted on GM, and part of the reason for my absence was because I decided to upgrade my computer. This was due partly to my sister heading off to college this fall and needing a computer (I gave her my laptop), and because that old laptop wasn't cutting it for me anymore. Fortunately for me, my parents chipped in $500 for the computer, so it wasn't coming completely out of my own pocket from summer jobs (I'm going to be a junior at college this fall). Originally I was going to buy each part of the computer and attempt to assemble it myself, but I decided to ditch that idea the day I found Monarch Computer.

Before I go into what I actually bought let me first briefly praise Monarch. I think Monarch is a really great computer-builder and reseller. I say that for a few reasons. First, their prices are very competitive (even with Newegg) and they only charge $50 to assemble an entire system. Second, I think they have a very wide spectrum of customizability options, with a very easy interface to create a computer to fit an exact specification and budget. Finally, I think their customer service department is helpful and very responsive - one of their representatives responded to one of my progress e-mails within a few hours with an update on how my computer was doing and what they were currently testing. While it's true that Monarch takes somewhat long to build a computer, I would have waited even longer because I think they did a great job; I would definitely buy from Monarch again.

My purchase was based on several factors: partly from living with my old laptop and remembering what I hated about it, partly from reading reports and benchmarks on the web, and partly from the advice of the great people here at Gamemecca. I've always been a fan of upgrade paths, so I wanted to look into SLI; after waiting for a 4200 RPM hard drive I was looking for faster drive; after squinting at a 14" LCD monitor I wanted large monitor; and after being tortured by a 32MB Radeon Mobility 9000 I wanted a graphics card that would put that old chip to shame. I wanted to do all this and keep a budget of $2000. This is what I decided to buy:

Monitor: Sceptre 19" X9-Naga II (has DVI and 12ms response time)

Case: Thermaltake Tsunami (black) VA3000BWA (has a window)

Motherboard: MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum SLI (939 pin, comes with 24-bit Creative SB Live integrated into the board)

Processor: AMD Athlon 64 3800+ (939 pin) 512 k (Newcastle, with Thermaltake A1838 heatsink)

Memory: 2 GB Patriot PC3200/400Mhz DDR (dual channel)

Hard Drive: 74 GB Western Digital Raptor (10,000 RPM)

Optical Drive: NEC BLACK ND-3520A/GNB (burns DVDs/CDs and reads both as well)

Graphics Card: EVGA 6800GT 256MB PCI-E (only one for now)

Power Supply: Enermax 535 W EG565P-FMA REV.2

Comes with: Half-Life 2 Bronze, Napster for 4 months, and Farcry


So that's what I decided to go with, and it came in a few dollars under budget. After waiting for three weeks (it took 13 business days to build and test), I saw the FedEx truck pull into my driveway. The following pictures show what it was like out of the box:


Picture #1: This is what I saw when I first opened up the top of the package. Monarch packed it very well, with styrofoam surrounded by plastic compressed air compartments. It was actually really well sealed and nothing was damaged.

Picture #2: This is the side of the case with the window. As you can tell by the photograph, the wires are neatly tucked away and it is not damaged.

Picture #3: This is the rear view. It is plugged in because I wanted to ground the machine (it is plugged into a power strip that is not on). The keys are for locking the side panel and the front door.

Picture #4: This is the other side of the case. I did remove the masking tape; that was from Monarch. The paint is really glossly and very reflective.

Picture #5: I decided to flip the power on, just to see if everything was working. All the fans spun and the lights came on, making me feel happy and relieved.

[OUTLAWS 9.99repeating^32]

I bought two copper heatsinks and a wireless networking card awhile ago, and I decided to install them. I figured that the Vantec copper heatsinks couldn't hurt, and even if they don't actually help dissipate heat, they looked pretty nice. I needed the wireless card because my family and I didn't want to run cable in the house (although I will be only using it in the house during the summer). So I brought home some latex gloves from work and went at it.

Picture #1: This is what the RAM looked before I added the heatsinks to it.

Picture #2: This is the after shot. Now I'm sure that there are those who are throwing up the red flag shouting that the RAM is not in dual-channel and that I should fix it. If that is you, don't worry, because after I installed them I realized my mistake and fixed them so they were back to being side-by-side.

Picture #3: This is the wireless networking card. Although it's difficult to see from this shot, notice how huge the graphics card is. I had no idea how large these cards are. I remember seeing some from a few years ago, but that card is easily double the size of anything I recall. The wireless card went in smoothly and without a hitch.

Picture #4: This is a comparison of screen size between my old laptop and my new LCD. The plastic covering the LCD is just to protect it from dust while I was waiting for and setting up my computer. The difference is just unbelievable to me.

[OUTLAWS 9.99repeating^32]

So that was my computer upgrade experience. As I said, I am very happy and would definitely recommend Monarch and the hardware I bought. I have been playing some Farcry and I have been blown away. However, I do have some basic questions that I hope someone can help me with.

Question #1: When I was looking at some of the graphics settings, I came across the refresh rate for the LCD. It was set at a default value of 60 Hz. To me, 60 Hz seems a bit low. I looked in my manual and at 1280x1024 resolution (the native resolution and what I have been using), the monitor's manual says it can support up to 75 Hz for vertical scanning frequency in digital mode (50-75.03 Hz to be exact). My question is, should I raise the refresh rate to 75 Hz, or should I keep it on the default value (I would have to do a custom override, which the monitor says can damage hardware)?

Question #2: Although the case isn't too loud, I decided to enable "Cool 'n Quiet" mode in the BIOS. That made the fans somewhat less audible normally and they roar up while under stress. Is this option a good idea to keep on, or should I disable "Cool 'n Quiet"?

Question #3: When the computer starts up, it says that the graphics card is using PCI-E x8. I remember reading that the 6800GT can support 16 pipelines, or x16. Does that only happen with SLI mode enabled, or is there a way to enable x16 for a single card?

Question #4: Is there a program that can plot GPU temperatures over time? The reason I ask is because when I want to look at the temperature of the graphics card I have to go to the nVidia control menu under advanced display options, so I would have to exit out of a game (or at least Alt+Tab to desktop) in order to see the temperature. I think that a program to help keep chart of temperature changes would be very useful.

Thank you very much. This final picture is me, very happy with my purchase and ready to test it out, realizing somewhat how lucky I am.

[ME BIGGD01]

due to limited time i will make this post quick until later.

first congrats on the new system:thumbs: .

ok here we go,

i noticed a few things wrong with your system in the pics. first you have the ram in wrong. the ram should be running in dual channel mode since you have 2 dimms.

slot 1--slot2--slot3---slot4


you have your ram in slots 1&2 when they should be in slots 1&3. this enables dual channel mode which will boost your bandwidth which is one of the powerful factors of this platform. make sure your system is unplugged and power is fully discharged when fixing this.

second i see you mentioned the newcastle core alog with mention that you bought a better heatsink for the chip. first what i am concerned about is was the cpu oem (came without fan) or was it a pib (processor in box)? i strongly suggest always getting a pib which is a retail product in a box because it comes with the full warranty such as 3 years. the prices are just about the same when buying this. a oem chip comes with a warranty of 30 days to 1 year warranty which would suck if some sort of accident happends.

i hope you did not spend 2000 dollars on this system:eek: because first the chip core is the oldest version which monarch who you praised should of giving you the new venice core which runs even cooler, lower voltage and has sse3 instruction built in. most of all about the venice core is they tweaked the memory controller which will allow 4 dimms installed without lowering your bus to 333 and cutting out the dual channel.

i think your sysytem is going to kick ass regardless but i feel that if you are buying at a later date you should get the latest product offerings since the price is around the same.

[ME BIGGD01]

wow, i just read more of what you posted and i really need to suggest some things. i will have to get back to you later on this because wife is breaking chops. you live in nj right? you should of got in touch with me since i think you are about a 2 hour drive away.

[Fragetti]

Nice 9999999
good luck with her :)

[OUTLAWS high ping camper]

You are a lucky man...now take those silly gloves off! :D

Ahem...leave the refresh rate alone. I want to say that LCD's don't refresh, but I can't remember what I had read about them.

Negative and positive comments are pretty much even with regards to the use of "Cool 'N Quiet".

Can't help you with the other questions.

Congratulations on your purchase Mr. 9's. :thumbs:

[OUTLAWS 9.99repeating^32]

Hey Biggs, thanks for posting.

About the dual-channel mode. I doubled checked this and I am positive that the RAM should be in slots 1 & 2 for an MSI board. I checked the manual and it says that the only positions for dual channel are in 1 & 2, 3 &4, or 1, 2, 3, and 4 (all slots filled). Just to be safe, I tried slots 1 & 3 again and the BIOS displays single-channel mode (whereas it displays dual-channel for slots 1 & 2). You can see a brief manual here (http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8N_Neo4_Platinum/SLI&class=mb) (look for the sentence "Dual-channel DDR works ONLY in the 3 combinations listed in the table shown above.").

About the Venice core. I ordered this computer about 3 weeks ago, and Monarch didn't have the new Venice in yet. I figured that the Newcastle was good enough and I couldn't wait any longer to upgrade, heh (they did say they would be getting them in soon). Besides, I noticed that some people were having some issues with the Venice and the MSI Neo4 boards about a week ago, so maybe I lucked out (although I believe it was an issue with overclocking, something like the FSB wouldn't go past 233 MHz or something similar to that; I don't plan on overclocking so it might not have affected me). I do understand what you mean about getting the latest product offerings, but I guess excitement over a new computer got the better of me and I was tired of waiting.


About the retail or OEM processor. Monarch lets you choose between either the chip with the retail fan or the OEM chip and a different fan of your choice. I decided to go with the Thermaltake fan, which was $25 opposed to the $8 the retail fan makes up. I didn't know about the reduced warranty, I should've looked into it further. That was definitely foolish on my part, I'll remember to get the retail fan next time.


The computer itself was $1650 and the monitor was $350, so I did spend about $2000 on it. Thanks for giving me your thoughts as you always do Bigg, you're a great guy when it comes to helping people. And yes, I live in NJ. :)

[OUTLAWS 9.99repeating^32]

Thanks Frag. :)

And HPC, thanks for the advice. When my father saw me with the gloves on and the open case, he gave me the strangest look. I figure I can't be too cautious; well I suppose I could be. For now I'll leave the refresh rate and cool 'n quiet the way they are, thanks.

[ME BIGGD01]

Hey Biggs, thanks for posting.

About the dual-channel mode. I doubled checked this and I am positive that the RAM should be in slots 1 & 2 for an MSI board. I checked the manual and it says that the only positions for dual channel are in 1 & 2, 3 &4, or 1, 2, 3, and 4 (all slots filled). Just to be safe, I tried slots 1 & 3 again and the BIOS displays single-channel mode (whereas it displays dual-channel for slots 1 & 2). You can see a brief manual here (http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8N_Neo4_Platinum/SLI&class=mb) (look for the sentence "Dual-channel DDR works ONLY in the 3 combinations listed in the table shown above.").

About the Venice core. I ordered this computer about 3 weeks ago, and Monarch didn't have the new Venice in yet. I figured that the Newcastle was good enough and I couldn't wait any longer to upgrade, heh (they did say they would be getting them in soon). Besides, I noticed that some people were having some issues with the Venice and the MSI Neo4 boards about a week ago, so maybe I lucked out (although I believe it was an issue with overclocking, something like the FSB wouldn't go past 233 MHz or something similar to that; I don't plan on overclocking so it might not have affected me). I do understand what you mean about getting the latest product offerings, but I guess excitement over a new computer got the better of me and I was tired of waiting.


About the retail or OEM processor. Monarch lets you choose between either the chip with the retail fan or the OEM chip and a different fan of your choice. I decided to go with the Thermaltake fan, which was $25 opposed to the $8 the retail fan makes up. I didn't know about the reduced warranty, I should've looked into it further. That was definitely foolish on my part, I'll remember to get the retail fan next time.


The computer itself was $1650 and the monitor was $350, so I did spend about $2000 on it. Thanks for giving me your thoughts as you always do Bigg, you're a great guy when it comes to helping people. And yes, I live in NJ. :)
yes they should be in 1 and 2 but when i posted i was referencing the order of the dimms. what i didnt realize is that you had it in the 3rd slot because i didnt see the second clip. sorry about that but wanted to make sure you get the full experience of this platform i have been raving about. you definetly have a system to brag about. (edit--i guess i looked at one of the pictures because one has the memory in right and one doesnt. i also missed that you mentioned that:o . i hate when i am rushing around:D )

i can understand how you felt when you decided to just get it asap. i have no patience when it comes to getting what i want. i paid an addttional 100 bucks to get my asus sli board when nobody else could. i have been actually awaiting the x2 chips which are based on the venice core and are multi core chips. the 4800 to be exact is what i have been holding off. these chips will be available in the middle of june and from what i have been reading about them, they are kicking some serious buttucks.

as far as worrying about keeping things cool, you really do not have to worry about that because these chips hardly get hot. i really do not suggest using the cool n quiet feature. it's ok if you are just using it for office work but to have your system running at top notch, have it disabled in the bios. you won't notice the system getting hot to cause a problem, besides you already have a btter heatsink.

[Fragetti]

Got this from a article I read on lcd monitors:

Due to difference in technology the LCD Monitors are clear winners as refresh rate is not an issue with them. Normally you get a choice of two different refresh rates on the LCD monitor but it is best to go with the recommendations of the manufacturer.

http://www.pcreview.co.uk/articles/Consumer_Advice/LCD_vs_CRT/

dont know of a program that monitors vid card temp?

ill look around though
Frag

[ME BIGGD01]

Question #1: When I was looking at some of the graphics settings, I came across the refresh rate for the LCD. It was set at a default value of 60 Hz. To me, 60 Hz seems a bit low. I looked in my manual and at 1280x1024 resolution (the native resolution and what I have been using), the monitor's manual says it can support up to 75 Hz for vertical scanning frequency in digital mode (50-75.03 Hz to be exact). My question is, should I raise the refresh rate to 75 Hz, or should I keep it on the default value (I would have to do a custom override, which the monitor says can damage hardware)?

on my lcd display i notice no difference in anything regarding 60-75 hz. of course i left mine at 75 because it has to be better then 60:) .

Question #2: Although the case isn't too loud, I decided to enable "Cool 'n Quiet" mode in the BIOS. That made the fans somewhat less audible normally and they roar up while under stress. Is this option a good idea to keep on, or should I disable "Cool 'n Quiet"?

as i mentioned in previous post, i suggest keeping it disabled. as far as the fan noise, i have switched to water cooling. i imagine that the bigger fan you put on the cpu doesnt help much with the noise but if you were going to use
cool and quiet, you are defeating purpose of the extra money spent for larger fan.

Question #3: When the computer starts up, it says that the graphics card is using PCI-E x8. I remember reading that the 6800GT can support 16 pipelines, or x16. Does that only happen with SLI mode enabled, or is there a way to enable x16 for a single card?

it seems you must have the board setup in sli mode. for my board, i have to reverse the card in between the pci express slots. look to see if it is in single or sli mode.

Question #4: Is there a program that can plot GPU temperatures over time? The reason I ask is because when I want to look at the temperature of the graphics card I have to go to the nVidia control menu under advanced display options, so I would have to exit out of a game (or at least Alt+Tab to desktop) in order to see the temperature. I think that a program to help keep chart of temperature changes would be very useful.

there are utilities that come with the motherboard cd that can monitor the temps for you overtime. pretty much most companies have one. i have had problems using the msi one in the past but maybe they fixed those problems with later releases of the software.

[Caged Anger]

Hey 9's, what an awesome system you have there, wOOt! :thumbs:

Just wanna through my 2 cents in though. There are 2 things i can suggest, go figure.
I would suggest getting rid of the grid on the back case fan port. I have found that the grid makes more noise and hinders airflow. Get a cheap grill to put over it. Think you may enjoy the results. other thing that I think is important with any system is having a copy of the OS. I don't think any factory made system comes with a copy of it so you'll want to go buy one in case you need to reformat or repair.

That's it, have fun with the new stuff man and hope to see you on a server sometime!

[JIMINATOR]

i picked up my last board and cpu from monarch. being in atlanta it is only a 30 minute drive. it was for the msi neo2 platinum board. about the only thing I don't like about it (and didn't realize at the time) was that the onboard usb controllers are 1.1. (an expansion card and connector for the front of the case are 2.0). for lcd, refresh rate is not the same as with a crt, on a crt low refresh = flicker, on an lcd, the pixels are always on or always off, the time it takes for them to switch is the response time. 60 Hz is fine. also, the x8 or x16, I don't believe it matters, kind of like the agp 4x vs agp 8x, there is no performance benefit...

[Slice]

Congrats on your new rig! Looks sweet, good choice on the Graphics card! :thumbs:

[TurlockJC]

nice system 99's I love it:D

[OUTLAWS 9.99repeating^32]

Frag: Thanks for that article, it cleared up some differences between the refresh rate for an LCD and a CRT. I thought that the refresh rate would make a difference with an LCD as it does with a CRT, but now I know it's not the same.

Biggs: I too didn't notice any difference between 60 and 75 Hz, but originally I thought it was my imagination so I had to ask. Also, I agree with you on the Cool 'n Quiet feature. I have it disabled (I will admit that the system is decently loud, even when idle; but I guess I should expect that considering I am used to virtually no noise and that the case has two 120 mm fans and a 90 mm fan). With the x8 vs x16 issue, I'm still looking into it. I know that the SLI controller is set to SLI mode (according to the manual at least), so I'll call Monarch and see what they say. I have a feeling that x16 only works with two cards, though. And I'll try to look around for some motherboard utilities on one of these CDs they gave me. Thanks again.

Caged: Thanks man. I'll look into getting another grill for the back fan. I've been looking at Xoxide (here (http://www.xoxide.com/120mmgrills.html)) but some of those grills are a bit too excessive for me. If you know of any other sites please let me know. And don't worry, I have a retail copy of XP Pro on CD, and that's what I've been using (and what I'm using right now), so I'm ready to reformat and repair. Thanks for the good wishes man.

Jim: Thanks for clearing up the refresh rate on an LCD for me. I'll leave it on 60 Hz. I think you're right about the small (if any) benefit from increasing the pipelines to 16, but I think I'm going to look into it anyway, just to be safe.

Thanks Slice and Turlock. :)

[ME BIGGD01]

9-just look at the daughter card in between the pci express slots. take it out and read both sides. one side should be for sli and the other for non sli use. since you have one video card at the moment (i also am waiting before i fully go sli) make sure the daughter card is installed to your configuration. also look in the bios for a setting that says pci express mode. set that for auto or single.


jim--you must have something configured wrong because your board should have 4 and 4 usb 2.0 ports

4 rear-4 front.

i take it you have the nforce3 chipset?

if i remember correctly, the setting in the bios is a bit confusing where you can set the configuration for the speeds of each channel of the usb. i beleive it may say hi speed or full speed which makes no sense to me and i once made the same mistake in the past. looking on the right side of the bios screen when on these choices, look for the 480 setting which should enable usb 2.0.

now if this still doesnt work then somehow there is something connected on the board via usb that is not configured right such as front usb connector. check to make sure that they are configured by pin in this order

power - + ground = usb2.0

power + - ground = usb1.1

if there is still an issue of not having usb 2.2 on the ports after looking at all of these things, it is possible that you have something wrong with the board and should rma it asap. it just makes no sense that they put usb 1.1 ports on. it also goes against the chipset core/specs.


everyone with and athlon 64 system----i will say that configuring this platform is much different then any other platform because of the technology being used. there are so many things that can be holding back on performance if not configured correctly. if you currently own an athlon 64 board and wonder which one is the best, the truth is they are all just about the same in performance and when buying on this platform one would usually consider 2 things when buying it. these 2 choices makers are features and overclocking ability (which i have done some exhausting testing and have some rather strange results which i would have to post again about in the future).

anyway, the technology on this board is so advanced and the usual way of fsb x multiplier does not exist on the athlon 64. i will go into further detail and explain in another thread all about this and some tweaking and bios configurations.

[Caged Anger]

9's...lol, just get the $2 one on the bottom man, its behind the case so it doesn't have to look pretty