It's Official. No Sam 2 Deathmatch.

[SALvation]

It is now official. Sam 2 will NOT have deathmatch.


2K GAMES ANNOUNCES SERIOUS SAM II MULTIPLAYER FEATURES



New York, NY – August 9, 2005 – 2K Games, a publishing label of Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. (NASDAQ: TTWO), today announced the exciting multiplayer features of Serious Sam II. The multiplayer features in Serious Sam II will allow for full co-operative gameplay on both PC and the Xbox® video game and entertainment system from Microsoft. The PC version will allow up to sixteen gamers to fight their way through the complete game via LAN and online, with the Xbox version allowing up to four players via Xbox Live or system link.



Serious Sam II features more than 40 levels spread across seven different worlds, each with entirely different environments. Gamers will wield nearly 20 different weapons and use over 10 different vehicles and turrets against hundreds of enemies, some of which are minute, while others dwarf the player entirely. All of the same gameplay content is available in the multiplayer portion of the game, with minor additions to the maps to make the game more enjoyable for multiple players.



Serious Sam II will be released for PC and Xbox this fall. For more information please visit http://www.serioussam2.com/ (http://www.serioussam2.com/).

[SALvation]

Our rep did confirm though that the mod functionality will be built in if a modder wanted to create it.

[SALvation]

This is extremely disappointing news for all of us. How do you guys feel about the price increase to the standard $50 tag now? Yes the game is longer, but with only one multiplayer mode, I can't see me paying full price for the game anymore.

[DiTomasso]

If that is the case, no dm:eek: , i will not be running to the store when its released.

Just wait untill its in the bargain bin :D or some modder creates a DM mod.

[BlackWolf]

WTF that really sucks :down:

[SALvation]

I feel the same way. The more I think about it, the more pissed I get. The only way to show your opinion is to vote with your wallet. If Croteam doesn't support the DM community, why should the community support Croteam?

[Goober]

If that is the case, no dm:eek: , i will not be running to the store when its released.

Just wait untill its in the bargain bin :D or some modder creates a DM mod.

Yep...after 6 months of no sales and it drops to $19.99 I probably still won't buy it. I guess all the help we gave them testing the 1.5 patch was for nothing.
Looks like the co op players were the ones that Croteam cared about after all.

[Rodzilla]

Looks like the co op players were the ones that Croteam cared about after all.

Welcome to 5 years ago.

Yes, it's pretty lame that the announcement they kept leading on about was merely an announcement that co-op was the only multiplayer mode, and it's pretty lame that even simple DM won't be in it, but come on, you're acting surprised that Croteam cares *more* about Co-op? It's *ALWAYS* been about co-op, plain and simple. Yes it had DM, and it really should still have DM, but it should be no surprise that Croteam values Co-op more, because Sam has always been known for its co-op support, and never for its DM.

And I don't really see how it's a hard decision on buying it, it's really as simple as it gets - If you were going to buy it mostly for DM, well guess what, it doesn't have DM, so you probably shouldn't buy it. Whether you'll buy it if a DM mod comes out depends on how much you've gotten your head of the sand by then.

[NightBreed]

I think Croteam did us all a favor by leaving out DM...If they've been reading all the posts over the years, it's no wonder they left it out..

If I have to explain, you don't understand..

[EXEcution]

Well never say never because I recognize ssam only for its DM and not for its coop, this goes for many people and clans on this site as well. This isn't exactly a shocker, unfortunate yes, but how would you feel if there was a half-ass DM included with like 2 maps and no other features worked out.

As for making the mod I'nm sure that someone will. I mean Croteam did make a new engine, with features that make modding easier and one doesn't need to be a programmer to make a mod as opposed to ssam1 where you needed to know C++ in order to mod. (at least that's what I remember reading and seeing) And when someone does make the mod then we can all buy the game to test everything out (with better netcode and hopefully some re-designed versions of Little Trouble, Yodeller, and the rest of the ss:se DM maps).

For those who do want something new in the DM department Q4 is prolly your best bet. Tomorrow is QuakeCon 2005 and there will be a live Quake 4 Deathmatch "Premier". We can then draw our own conclusions based on what the QuakeCon attendees say about it.

[SALvation]

I don't think there's much hope for the mod community to produce a quality deathmatch mod. We saw a decent release from the modders every once in a while with FE and SE, but there wasn't enough to think that the mod community for Sam 2 will be any different.

[Rodzilla]

I know you're going to find this very hard to believe, but just because clans are diehard SS deathmatch fans, that doesn't directly relate to it being necessary to add to the game so they can maintain their customer base. You guys make up a very, very small and extremely dedicated percentage of the people that play Sam.

[EXEcution]

Then we'll bitch to Croteam to include one with a patch. But I don't think it would beat ss:se's deathmatch. I mean that game has several bugs that just MADE the multiplayer experience fun for me.

[Pure_Evil]

I feel the same way. The more I think about it, the more pissed I get. The only way to show your opinion is to vote with your wallet. If Croteam doesn't support the DM community, why should the community support Croteam?
excellent post :thumbs:

[SALvation]

I know you're going to find this very hard to believe, but just because clans are diehard SS deathmatch fans, that doesn't directly relate to it being necessary to add to the game so they can maintain their customer base. You guys make up a very, very small and extremely dedicated percentage of the people that play Sam.
Definitely. If you look at even when the game was at its peak, there were maybe only 50 DM servers and a couple of hundred people playing DM regularly. That just doesn't compare in any way to the average DM game. The business end of things are that Sam 2 will sell because of co-op, and that's where the attention is focused. The writing was on the wall when Croteam couldn't even finish the 1.5 patch because it didn't make business sense.

I think what really pisses people off though is the way everything Sam 2 related has been handled as of late. We were so used to the old days of watching Seriously and talking to the devs, that it felt like we were helping them make the game, and that they really cared about their core fans, whether it was co-op or DM fans.

Now its a business more than ever. Create the features that have the best ROI (return on investment)...Time your PR to make the most buzz...Veil announcements so the lack of features looks like a good thing...

Maybe once the game is released and Take 2 has finished their "extreme makeover" of Croteam, the devs will come back to us and remember what made them so damn successful in the first place.

But will anyone care by then?

[FUS1ON]

You guys act surprised at this news, the award winning columnist Shogun of the Gamemecca Journal broke this news back on 07/26/05. :P

I've said before and i'll say it again, Croteam has made a major screwup by leaving out DM, they will enjoy a little success with the initial release of the game and from the monies they recieve from the use of their engine. I just hope they can live on it because that's all there is going to be.



The only way to show your opinion is to vote with your wallet. If Croteam doesn't support the DM community, why should the community support Croteam?

Testify my brother!!! They not getting my money.

Rod you have YOUR head in the sand if you think it was a good move for them to omit DM. :rolleyes:

[SALvation]

There is only so much replay you will get out of co-op. Its not like I can come on here, post about how I totally pwned this werebull, and then have the werebull post back about how my family sucks, and continue that conversation for 10 pages.

[NightBreed]

There is only so much replay you will get out of co-op. Its not like I can come on here, post about how I totally pwned this werebull, and then have the werebull post back about how my family sucks, and continue that conversation for 10 pages.


:funny: Exactly !!!!! :thumbs: :thumbs:

[Rodzilla]

Rod you have YOUR head in the sand if you think it was a good move for them to omit DM.

Ah yes, because I said it was a good move, like here, ya see:


Yes, it's pretty lame that the announcement they kept leading on about was merely an announcement that co-op was the only multiplayer mode, and it's pretty lame that even simple DM won't be in it, but come on, you're acting surprised that Croteam cares *more* about Co-op?

I never said it was a good move, and I'm rather aggravated about it. Do I think some people are overreacting though? Of course. I love deathmatch, but that's not what Sam's about, and I wasn't banking on excellent DM to enjoy the game. Throwing it out of proportion, however, and saying that Croteam has let a huge number of people down is just ridiculous.


there was [a large DM community]? all 5 of ya?

[EXEcution]

There is only so much replay you will get out of co-op. Its not like I can come on here, post about how I totally pwned this werebull, and then have the werebull post back about how my family sucks, and continue that conversation for 10 pages.
And that's exactly what makes the DM feature of any game great. On top of the fact that you will have more clans, a large amout of skilled and not skilled players, and you can actually talk about your matches against each other. Co-op is just single player where half the people playing are morons and have no idea what they're doing, not really making the experience more enjoyable. And in coop skill goes by pretty unnoticed because you aren't watching other people playing you are simply trying to kill a bunch of scripted enemies.

Croteam might not have let everyone down, but they sure as hell didn't make everyone more happy. And I don't care about everyone I CARE ABOUT M.E. (My Enjoyment)! :D

[HARLEYRIDER]

Looks like the same scenario as PK SAL, Get the single player out the door and worry about the multi-player later. Actually, on second thought, there saying screw MP all together. So I guess when you beta test it will be the co-op your testing with no real vision of how the on-line MP will hold up...Whats with these idiot Dev's? Seems to me they ALL keep making the same mistakes.

[SALvation]

I don't think we ever claimed that DM was a large community. I do think though, that a large part of Sam's core fans were disappointed with this announcement, regardless of what mode they like to play.

[SALvation]

Looks like the same scenario as PK SAL, Get the single player out the door and worry about the multi-player later. Actually, on second thought, there saying screw MP all together. So I guess when you beta test it will be the co-op your testing with no real vision of how the on-line MP will hold up...Whats with these idiot Dev's? Seems to me they ALL keep making the same mistakes.
Hey Harley! Nice to see you again. It's a very similar situation to Painkiller, and remember what happened to it? Everyone liked the single player for those first couple of weeks, and then they were done with the game because the multiplayer was a joke. In that situation too the publisher (in that case Dreamcatcher) made life hard on the devs because they decided single player would be king.

By the time the devs concentrated their efforts on multiplayer after release, nobody was around to care anymore.

As far as the beta goes I can only assume that we will be testing the co-op features and giving feedback about the netcode and playability. It should start in a few weeks so we'll see.

[HARLEYRIDER]

Hey Harley! Nice to see you again. It's a very similar situation to Painkiller, and remember what happened to it? Everyone liked the single player for those first couple of weeks, and then they were done with the game because the multiplayer was a joke. In that situation too the publisher (in that case Dreamcatcher) made life hard on the devs because they decided single player would be king.

By the time the devs concentrated their efforts on multiplayer after release, nobody was around to care anymore.

As far as the beta goes I can only assume that we will be testing the co-op features and giving feedback about the netcode and playability. It should start in a few weeks so we'll see.

Thanks SAL...I like what you've done to the place, cool forum skin...Funny you should bring up DC. They also published my fav. game GORE and did the opposite to 4DRulers, the dev's, by making them put a Single player aspect together quickly. Because of this, it got bad reviews and it still has the best netcode of any game I have ever played. I run a 16 player server on a regular broadband connection and it runs smooth as silk.
Do you think maybe the netcode for SS2 already has issues and that is why there will not be DM? Makes sense not wasting there time then
Oh Yeah....I seem to remember that you are a big Red Wings fan...Welcome back Pro Hockey....GO BLACKHAWKS!

[Asian Invasian]

well, my 50 bucks goes to quake 4 then :P

[TurlockJC]

same here AI,:thumbs:

Man i am dissapointed.like Salvation said:" if croteam doesnt want to support the commuminty then why should we support them":mad:

[Free Styler]

I remember like a year ago or sometin somebody posting a thread about what people wanted in DM.Man i'm good at finding stuff.

So wth was all that about http://www.gamemecca.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20211
False hope given to us by goran.

I personaly think the real reason they did not make deathmatch is they did not have the time or the ressources to do so.
Maybe saying so would of been smart here in gamemecca.But saying so to the public makes it a bit look like"look at us were incompentent".No offence to croteam btw.You make me look like a worm when it comes to programming.
They did what they thought was best for them.
Maybe the fact of not getting or hopes up, would been a nice gesture nevertheless or a plain and simple there will not be any deathmatch.

[Free Styler]

Forgot to say quake 4 here i come baby.
Seriousam 2 adios amigos.lol
I'm not even buying the game.I never played coop or single player mode apart 2 or 3 times.

[Asian Invasian]

Forgot to say quake 4 here i come baby.
Seriousam 2 adios amigos.lol
I'm not even buying the game.I never played coop or single player mode apart from 2 or 3 times.damn straight, quake 4 is going to be better anyway!

[SALvation]

Awesome find FS. I was looking for that thread but didn't realize it was all the way back from 2003. Something had to have happened within the last year. Even in an old interview with Goran, he said DM would be in Sam 2. Somewhere down the line somebody made a decision to cut it and it would be nice for Croteam to step and explain themselves.

[Free Styler]

I remember like a year ago or sometin somebody posting a thread about what people wanted in DM.Man i'm good at finding stuff.

So wth was all that about http://www.gamemecca.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20211
False hope given to us by goran.

I personaly think the real reason they did not make deathmatch is they did not have the time or the ressources to do so.
Maybe saying so would of been smart here in gamemecca.But saying so to the public makes it a bit look like"look at us were incompentent".No offence to croteam btw.You make me look like a worm when it comes to programming.
They did what they thought was best for them.
Maybe the fact of not getting or hopes up, would been a nice gesture nevertheless or a plain and simple there will not be any deathmatch.


I should of wrote my second post in the first post.I think people will not see the first post i made so this is a repost of my first post

[Goober]

Welcome to 5 years ago.

, but come on, you're acting surprised that Croteam cares *more* about Co-op? It's *ALWAYS* been about co-op, plain and simple. Yes it had DM, and it really should still have DM, but it should be no surprise that Croteam values Co-op more, because Sam has always been known for its co-op support, and never for its DM.

. Whether you'll buy it if a DM mod comes out depends on how much you've gotten your head of the sand by then.
Mr. Rod, I just checked the servers and counted the ones running at this moment. Pretty much even 21 fragmatch and 21 co op. So if it's just "ALWAYS" been just about co op then why aren't there 5 times as many co op servers as Fragmatch?

Besides I don't think I've had my head in the sand. We've asked and asked but never been straight out told until recently that there would not be DM. Would it have been so hard for them to tell us? It's not like Sal doesn't talk with Croteam every now and then. I mean we're such a small community, one little email and all "five" of us would have instantly known about it and concentrated on the other DM games that we play and not given Serious sam 2 another thought.

Anyway...I think I know where your head is stuck and frankly I'll bet it's starting to stink in there.

[Free Styler]

thanks sal it was quite a while ago.
To be honest i remember having posted in that thread.And considering i only have 600 odd post it took 2 minutes to find it .hehe :)

Search posts by freestyler and badaboom.hehe

[Rodzilla]

Possibly because the game is 4 years old? Or maybe because the netcode is crap? Oh wait, the game is 4 years old, that's right. Not to mention the number of people that have played numerous co-op games over LAN, and not the internet.

Oh wow, boo hoo they didn't give you guys a personal letter 6 months ago about no DM. It's a little thing called a publisher, and the publisher didn't want to reveal more information about multiplayer (or, more accurately, the fact that there was nothing else to reveal), until now. I asked them back in May in person, I asked them probably every week since then when we'd know what there was, until finally they said we'd know this week, and then today they sent out a press release. Yes, it's a let down, but quit acting like the developer has some obligation to tell you when they're not allowed, and like the publisher has an obligation to let you guys know when they're not telling anyone else.

[OUTLAWS The Machine]

I very rarely saw people playing Co-op over the net. I don't know anyone that would enjoy playing the co-op more then once or twice before getting tired of it.

I will not be buying it if DM is not included.


Sal- I think you can safely remove Sam from your "Looking forward to" list in your signature.

[OUTLAWS The Machine]

I just can't see myself sending a few of the Outlaws a PM asking them if they want to go kill waves and waves of monsters tonight. And even if I did, what would we do the next night? Kill the same waves of monsters again. To me Co-Op = snore.

[Free Styler]

Heres a good one for you rod.

Bigg come a defend the base!
Oh wait...theres no deathmatch lol

[Asian Invasian]

We should all be happy that croteam is probably going out of buisness :P

[Goober]

Mr Rod...uhmmm...oh...nevermind. It just occured to me why we left your sacred forums so many years ago. You co op boys never could understand us DM folks.

[Asian Invasian]

Mr Rod...uhmmm...oh...nevermind. It just occured to me why we left your sacred forums so many years ago. You co op boys never could understand us DM folks.lol owned :P
co-op players could never handle dm players..

[Dangerous Dan]

ok, so we know the bad news... but is there any one here that is willing to help organise a crack team of coders wiating to leave their mark? we can at least TRY to get a community based DM made, and if it sucks, then we can at least say we tried...

[Die Hard]

I'm with you Dan. If only I knew what to do?

[Dangerous Dan]

I'm with you Dan. If only I knew what to do?
I'm taking it upon myself to start a modding initiative - check the Seriously! mod section in the future to see what I'm all about.

[SASQUATCH]

Something to do with the engine or maybe what they need to do is buy a fuc*ing engine and improve it.

Without DM Sam 2 will fade away. . . .

$50.00 I can make my own ****ing game that continues to kill the same fuc*ing monsters.

The funny thing is Croteam really thinks there going to make money from Sam 2 and I don't think so at all.

Good-bye to Sam I say, and never to return.

[Ra\/en]

Alright, ok, i totally understand if you guys are saying that it was never really about deathmatch. But you see, that was because the deathmatch was horribly put together, terribly laggy, and just plain crappy. NOW, if they had bothered to make a GREAT deathmatch mode in Sam2, I think that a bigger DM fanbase would have been possible. In fact, i think that that would be a no-brainer. If people buy a game, and beat the sp, and try co-op, and then try some DM, find out that its super fun, and well put together, they WILL play it.

simple as that. the only reason that DM never was big back in the day was because croteam couldnt get it right.

[T I K]

WTH..... it would appear that Croteam has abandoned their great core game and fan base for the quick $$.

And unfortunately for them, Croteam, and the Devs and its Publishers and for "us", the DM fan base that really kept SS1 and SSSE going n growing to the popularity they enjoyed, looks like they are allowing n letting if not intentionally forcing SS a quick, horrible and untimely death !! Once you loose the interest of the contributing fans, that keep and expand on a games popularity and its unique, if not fun and addicting properties where else can it go.......but no...where!!

To me and Im sure most other peeps that would consider buying SS2, just having SS2 and Coop as the only included multi-player option , they have basicly "DOOMED" their once growing and once popular SS franchise"!!" :down:

[Nitro]

Let's make a poll to see how many months it will take for Croteam to file for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy.

My vote goes for 3 motnhs :wootrock:
Let's have a going out of business party by burning Sam 2 CDs

Yes, I am greatly angered by this news....


Anyone remember Nitro Family, the Croteam game with only Co-op....

[Asian Invasian]

Let's make a poll to see how many months it will take for Croteam to file for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy.

My vote goes for 3 motnhs :wootrock:
Let's have a going out of business party by burning Sam 2 CDs

Yes, I am greatly angered by this news....


Anyone remember Nitro Family, the Croteam game with only Co-op....i remember that game, IT WENT NO WHERE, just like ss2

[SALvation]

Ok guys, if you want to show Croteam how you feel about this decision, sign this:

http://www.gamemecca.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72371

Our best hope now is to have an official DM added in a future patch. The only way this will happen is if we show that this is something that is severely wanted, so if you want DM, sign that thread.

I have created that thread in a new forum here at GM, and that forum is open to EVERYONE. Guests, banned members, current members, Sirc...we need everyone to band together and get this done. I don't care if you are from Gamezone or Seriously!...friend or foe...get your ass into that thread and let's be heard.

It doesn't matter if you are a DM or co-op fan. If you are a fan of Sam, you know that the lack of DM and any real replay-value-centric mode is going to hurt this franchise. We can't stand by and merely complain, we have to drum up the support to show what these companies understand...that it will be a smart business decision to include it.

[Nitro]

A patch with DM would be a good idea. The mod community would do a horrible job on makign a DM mod

[BobtheCkroach]

I play DM once every few months, and personally couldn't care less if it's there or not, but after everything GM and other forums have done for Croteam, and being that sam's success is due soley to the MP community, I happily cast my vote. Take a hint from HL2, Croteam - you're only going to tick people off when you deny them what they want most.

[SALvation]

Get the word out to your buddies on other forums and clans. We need as many people as possible to make this happen.

[Rodzilla]

Wow, at least you finally realize you need to stop whining and do something. A petition is a good idea, but I don't really know the effect it'll have, nor how necessary it will be. Deathmatch will not be added to the game before it ships, it just won't happen. Yes, it might be later patched in, but whether that will be necessary or not is very doubtful.

Now, on the "stop whining and do something" front, ever since this morning I've been working on fixing the problem, and that's all I'm going to say for now.

[SALvation]

I agree that DM is not going to happen for release, but I think our best chance is to get this patched in after release. There has to be some work already done with DM because we have talked with Croteam about it for the last couple of years. We just need to show them that there is a benefit to finishing it and releasing it.

Rod - Would you mind posting the news of the letter on your site? I think it would be best if we worked together to get this done. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help with the "fixing of the problem". :)

[OUTLAWS Tip]

I personally do not buy any games that do not include online multi-player. I do not consider co-op multi-player. With the higher prices of games these days I cannot or will not pay those prices for a game that once I finish ends up on my gaming wasted money shelf. Doom3 as an example, I never even considered buying. Now that it is $20 I still wouldn't buy it. If game deveopers want to keep people buying their games they are going to have to give the public a reason to for the higher prices. I won't be buying Sam2 at $50 or in a year at $10.
:bawling:

[Rodzilla]

Rod - Would you mind posting the news of the letter on your site? I think it would be best if we worked together to get this done. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help with the "fixing of the problem".

I would, but it's unnecessary. Time will show why.

[::: DARK PSI :::]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! :D





There is only so much replay you will get out of co-op. Its not like I can come on here, post about how I totally pwned this werebull, and then have the werebull post back about how my family sucks, and continue that conversation for 10 pages.

[::: DARK PSI :::]

Ok time for Psi to post. :cool:

First off, I am very dissappointed that DM will not be coming out with the initial release. However, I also understand Croteam's move to pushing forward without it. Gents, the amount of time and money it takes to make a game is astromonical. Pleasing everyone is not an option with a commercial game. They need to produce the best product to produce the most money. Croteam is NOT an OPEN SOURCE company, nor are they making games specifically for the small community of DM players. People playing the game on Xbox, Playstation, and yes PC will not be buying the game specifically for its DM abilities. They will be buying it for a fun, quick, shoot em up thrill ride just like HL2 and Doom. I don't think game makers are pushing anymore for longevity or replay value. They want to give you an experience that you will not forget, until their NEXT release comes out.

Again I am dissappointed in the decision, however I also see great merit in the Co-op values of the game. SAL and I got started playing co-op and we had a blast doing so. In fact we made our OWN DM games with SS-FE. I am confident we will find the same values with the new game. The price tag on the game seems a little steep considering past Croteam releases. Time will tell how effective they will be.

Sorry guys I don't see Croteam filing chapter 11 simply because there is no DM in the game. They will do quite fine with their release. A few hundred angry DM players will not deter their sales. They did not make their initial whooping sales based on our tiny community of DM players.

I still look forward to the release. :thumbs:

[Rodzilla]

Dark Psi, you could've backed me up with your voice of reason about 5 pages ago, and while it's good to see there's still more than a few level heads around here, it doesn't matter anymore (http://www.seriouszone.com/cms/news.php?action=view&newsid=1485) ;)

/me stops organizing a DM mod team

[OUTLAWS high ping camper]

Coolio! :)

[Rodzilla]

You know you may as well just read our whole front page (http://www.seriouszone.com), as this morning has had a flurry of news.

[Grimmy]

Hope the DM won't be running on the 1.07 netcode patch

[EXEcution]

And for the people that don't like clicking. (Taken from the front page of Seriously!)

"... Seriously! has recently confirmed with Croteam that multiplayer Deathmatch will be added to the game via a patch after the game's launch. So fear not, ye deathmatchers, for ye may frag your fellow sammers afterall."

So everything is well (unless Croteam makes a crappy deathmatch add-on) and all we can do now is wait.

[Pure_Evil]

But don't buy it before that patch is released. Judging from their history, I wouldn't be suprised if this isn't smoke and mirrors to get those few hundred more sales....


* keep in mind, by the time the patch is released, the price should have dropped in half*

[Rodzilla]

A hundred sales is a drop in the bucket. Even with no patch and no way to patch DM in, the sales would not be noticably affected.

[Scorch]

R.i.p Sam......

[::: DARK PSI :::]

$29.99 for the game! Now we are talking!

/anxiously waiting for October.

[Asian Invasian]

But don't buy it before that patch is released. Judging from their history, I wouldn't be suprised if this isn't smoke and mirrors to get those few hundred more sales....


* keep in mind, by the time the patch is released, the price should have dropped in half*ya i agree with that :P

[SALvation]

I am going to go ahead and close this thread with the announcement that Croteam will in fact add DM via a patch. Feel free to continue the discussion here:


http://www.gamemecca.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72392