Only necro

[Gallac]

Was trying to get a group last night, and while 3 of my artifacts arent 10 yet and I havent respecced, I was flatly denied a few groups (1-2 groups that had a friend in them were full), and mostly was told that they will never group with necros for 8v8 in this game.

Well, my response to them is that all they will EVER see of me or I will encourage is my necro from now on, until I get majority or select few to recognize that necros are NOT weaklings and completely undesirable in group RvR.

I will still occassionally play my scout, and I will play my upcoming minstrel for my trio/quad group with morpurgo, blus, and helzer, but I will NEVER group my cleric, minstrel, or scout for 8v8 until my necro is not considered what they are now by most people.



Just figured id let you all know, so if you telling me to get on my cleric for a group or something, it wont happen.

P.S., here I come MoC 3.

[OZZYOGRE]

people are tards...take the stand my man :)

[Gallac]

Ive also decided i will no longer help anyone in PvE unless they actively recognize that the necro IS a viable RvR class... and DONT try to fake it.

Not trying to be rude or mean to anyone, but im going to push this point accross until it sticks with some people. And im going to try to encourage most of my friends that also play with RvR necros to do the same.

[Edit - Since I will not help anyone else (unless they helped me in the past and I havent paid them back for it, I wont ask for help.]

[FUS1ON]

I wish you luck bud, I really do.

[Skegs]

I'll bite.

You say here your necro is desirable for a group to have in RvR. Could you explain why in a little more detail for me? I'm just curious why a pickup/set/whatever group would choose a necro over various other classes that would be in the same spot. I'm thinking that spot would normally go to a merc, reaver, pally, arms, theurg, or cabalist. I'm assuming that a typical alb group will want 2 clerics, minstrel, and sorc at the very least. That leaves 4 spots for the classes I listed. I didn't include friars or wizards because they probably get the same sort of treatment and that's a whole other thread. If you've already made a post here or elsewhere detailing the reasons, you can just link me.

I'm not making an argument against necros in a group here. In fact, I'm not posting to argue at all. What I really want is the opinion of someone who plays a necro in RvR in more detail than "I should get groups." I'm not even ready to say necros shouldn't be grouped...I've thought about what their role would be at times and how viable they are in a group. Anyway, I'm just looking for a constructive analysis of what a necro brings to a group and what role the class would play.

[V98ci]

Good question Skegs. I've only played a servant necro and in PVE only so I would like to know what necro can bring to a group.

On another note, Gallac, I'm sorry you couldn't get a group for RVR with your necro. But to cut yourself off to every other group because they won't take your necro doesn't sound real smart imo. Groups are hard enough to come by now a days, but if that's what you want to do, it's your money and play time. Also to declare that you will not help anyone in PVE anymore just sounds childish. RVR and PVE are 2 completely different things and to demand a group for one before you will help with another is absurd.

Good Luck

[Sepra]

First of before anything being said. Mythic needs to make abombs able to take a persons spot on a boat. I think that's a really big handycap for necros in RvR. Ok, say your 8th spot has a necro in it. You boat all the way to Mid and you see a fg sweeping the dropoff and they charge you. You basically only have 7 players unless that necro can get that abom up asap and hope your grp has held off inc in the meantime while you're taking the time to cast. :(

[Sauron]

Leaving all bugs the class has and stupid desicions Mythic made with boats and several other things aside here are some pro's a necro has.


Powerxfer to clerics/casters : While PF has made this pretty obsolete in standoffs in open field or 8v8 it can help keep your parties cleric powered up while they either heal or try to put up a PF. Or it can keep your casters powered so they can keep the dmg coming.

Abs (de)buffing for tank groups : They can increase the dmg your tanks do by debuffing the enemies AF for a noticable ammount. they can also up your tanks Abs with the abs buff.

Now with Agramon in place boating isn't a real issue anymore but i agree aboms should be able to ride/keep up with boats.

Necros have the only DoT in game that interupts EACH tick and not just on initial tick so its a nice way to keep enemy caster down. They also can stick their pet to a caster to lock that caster down.

thats a few of the pros Necros have in RvR and what they can add to a RvR group.

[Gallac]

Heres some of the abilities that necros can bring to a group.

Spec is 50 sight, 19 pain.

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Power tap/transfer - Being able to tap power off enemies(doesnt steal power, just generates it from the damage done) and transfer it to cleric or casters is a big help. When I mentioned this to someone, they commented that fights dont last that long that they wont need it or their own power regeneration would take care of it. When I was on my cleric last couple times in a longer fight, I was running out of power like mad. The fights usually last either a few minutes, or having to spam some buttons. Now, my cleric is low RR, so doesnt have the RPs for higher MCL/RP, or other things, but I wasnt the only cleric running out.

If you bring that to a group, your clerics wont have to worry about power nearly as much as without a necro. No other class brings this to a group because it works in combat.

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Abs buff/Abs debuff - Absorb buff is a no question nice ability for groups, having 9% more absorption is very nice for all classes and is like a lvl 1 BoF.

Abs debuff, while more situational, is extremely nice to your tanks, that, sometimes have to chew threw some heavy absorptions and heals on top of that. Taking 250+ armor factor off a character makes your tanks and melee hit much harder, in turn, killing them much faster. Would this not make a very good group ability? This makes the enemy healers have to spend more effort on the one being slammed, making your group able to push the advantage. This is like a malice axe x4 thats usuable anytime again and again.

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Con and AE str/con debuffs - Now, con and str/con debuffs are very uncommon, but the fact that these are both instants to my necro can, at 19 painworking, take an enemies con down 70+. A, taking off some hps immediately, and, if sheared, makes them a veeeery easy target to kill. This goes extremely well with the abs debuff or any assist train.

Now, when I mentioned this to someone, they thought it breaks mez, but it does not, so this is a great ability to use anytime.

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Snare and AE UNBREAKABLE snare - In a world of CC, which is mainly mez, stun, and root... snares are almost non existent except for melee styles. Understandably why, it doesnt keep someone in place and it doesnt keep them from attacking, but, when you have someone trying to either run away from an assist train or a melee or 2 is on one of your clerics/casters, and their immune to mez/root/stun already, being able to snare them off is a great thing, no?

The AE unbreakable snare - One of the most unique abilities to necros, without a doubt. Being able to snare a kiter for casters/tanks, is awsome. While short in duration, from 8-15 seconds (15 being about 40+ painworking), sometimes thats all they need. Couple this with con debuffs and abs debuff, they will more then likely die quickly with a 2-3 melees on them unless they have some really good healers.

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PBAEDoT - The necros most underrated ability, and least known about, and quite possibly one of the best 8v8 abilities out there. Only thing that can beat this thing is alot of earth pets. This is a 20 second duration, 4-5 tick PBAE DoT, that is compeletly unique in the world of DoTs. Most people freak that I would use this on any healer/caster, but, it is extremely useful because this DoT interupts on EVERY tick.

Being able to interupt without pets and not able to kite them off, being the only way to stop it curing poison, which very very very few hibs/mids would do unless they knew of necros or got their heads straight. And since its a low damage DoT, they rarely consider it a threat.

Now, someone else had commented that they would never let me land this. Wrong, 2 nights ago I was landing it on healers/casters left and right. If CC has broken on either their healers/casters, this is a great ability to hit them with.

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Thats it for most of the spells necros bring to groups, not considering our own lifetaps/double casting.

Is that not alot of utility to a group? They arent MENT to be main DDing class or a CC class, their ment to make the group run longer/harder and make it easier to kill the enemies. Theyre also great interupt class. Best alb has next to the Theurgist.
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Abilities that come as being a shade/servant.
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Weve got extremely high melee absorption, which makes us unwanted targets to most melees, and only makes us vulnerable to casters. (who ISNT vulnerable to casters?)
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Massive hps for a caster/hybrid. We can push 2200-2600 hps with a good summoning suit. Making us tough targets to 2 hit.

P.S., I have NOT been 2 shotted by casters ONCE since ive been out there with my template. Not even 3 shotted, by casters. Maybe once or twice ive been 4 shotted, but rarely. Other casters would have the SAME problem as I do, so its NOT that aboms are completely weak to magic, its just that they will usually cap damage for most spells because of blue con pet and and it bypasses our melee absorption. We are like SOI sorcs only 100% of the time, if I pull FP or MoC 3 out, it gets nasty unless they use MoC or a CC ability.
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Shapechanges are extremely confusing to mids and hibs on first contact in a 8v8 situation. Few really look for the shade, so when im moving about in crocadile form or wolf (both of which I will have), melees will come up and try to swing on me to no avail, casters will target me and not being able to hit me, bards/healers unable to mez me.

Ive saved groups 5-10 seconds after first contact and mezzes were landed from having the hib tank groups hit the group. If this doesnt help the group, then more then likely nothing will at that point.
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Own demezz is awsome, and makes us nearly mez immune. Root and stuns though are a pain, since Mythic decided to not only keep us from having mez/stun blocker arties to effect the pet, but no access to purge! (maybe theyll fix this this patch since theyve already gotten a few necro problems fixed)

I wont deny that no access to purge is a big problem for necros, so I just go with the mentality that purge is already down. :p
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At bridge/tower/keep situations, necros are awsome against shrooms/bainshees/PBAErs, because we are capable to casting our instant spells without needing sight of pet--->target. Only pet<-->shade.

We can also cast our ML7 DD traps without needing pet anywhere in sight. While maybe not awsome, it can be a good opener for a charge.
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Now, the necro is not without problems on several things, first of all pathing and often LoS. Pathing and possibly losing the pet is a biiiiig determener against having necros in groups. Not being able to ride a boat without losing the pet is also a big determiner. In these situations, you hope that the clerics have some extra con to spair your pet. If they do, then its not so bad.

Pathing is mostly with select areas though, mostly around bridges and new spots for the island. So, once a necro learns these spots that can cause problems, we learn to adjust and avoid those big problem areas. Once most necros learn the spots and how to avoid them, they arent a problem except for rare occassion.


The other big thing that is a downside to necros in group is that of healing the pet with anything other then spread heals and groups. Since Mythic has still decided NOT to fix it so either when targetting the shade on group/on screen, it doesnt target the pet, or that when you heal the shade it doesnt transfer to the pet. Very bad determiner for necros unfortunately, but CAN be worked around so long as the necro tries to keep away from being on the nuke assist train. And since we can power transfer, we can make up for the power lost in spreads/spammed group heals.



Now, as for losing buffs by boat, I would say if we plan on being in hib/mid most of the time of that session, I can take my bot somewhere fairly accessable to us. ML10 50 enh spair bot isnt so bad if we have a few members wipe, lived, and they need buffs on hib/mid side.





As for my PvE decision v98, main reason im doing it is pretty much boycotting myself from most of it. Most people are 'oh, necro... help me with this?' (not targetted at anyone or saying everyone says this :p ), and we are considered mostly PvE characters.

One of the GREATEST quotes from along time ago by a necro was something along these lines.

Random noob - "Hey, can you PL me to 'so-so' level?"
Necro - "Can you PL me to RR5+?"
Random noob - "Uhhh.... nvm"

[eberge01]

Starvald/Morjin may have something to say on this subject as well. He has alot of experience in RVR with necro. One additional capability that a 50 sight necro has is in tower taking. You can park the bommy at the bottom of the stairs have a healer watch him closely and lifetap the crap out of the PBAOE toons at the top of the stairs. If you have two sight necros in the group and a good healer and somebody to wack anybody that goes after the bommy you can wax the tower humpers in a heartbeat.

[FUS1ON]

Sauron is Starvald/Morjin, he already posted.

[Pack]

IMO if you enjoy RVRing the class..play it.

It's gotten to the point here that ANY Outlaw who wants to rvr SHOULD, and if we don't group w/ each other..who will? pugs? (ya, we're gonna be puggish for a while anyway..but let's at least form em..not beg to join em)

I've been bad lately about not grouping with people, but only because I've already joined another group (which probably took me 30 minutes to set up) and feel bad just bailing on them..

The irregularity of our playtimes makes it tough, but I'm willing to run w/ anyone from ood, and maybe should set that as a priority from now on. The health of the guild is to some part EVERYONE's responsibilty.

Yes, there is always the "its your 13 bucks" idea around, but if we don't actively work on getting each other into groups...then who will?

Sorry Gallac, i don't mean to hijack your thread.. the Necro in RVR idea has been tossed around..and I've seldom run with one, but am damn sure willing to TRY.

Played the way you wrote above (as a support class) seems viable... I'd imagine that most rvr necros don't play that way and that helps to perpetuate the myth of such low utility in action... Get out there and show em how to do it :)

Both of you /salute

[Gallac]

Most of the times I was trying to get a group, there werent enough outlaw members on to do it.

Since im not that spec yet (still working on MS (lvl 6) and Jacinas (7)), and my RAs arent set up for it yet, im not as inclinded.

But knowing from the past, and what I encountered the other night, I know that thats going to be the general opinion by most people, and its that opinion I want to try to change.


Also, since im not that spec yet, I havent been able to get much time in practicing the abs debuffs and con debuffs, but I have been practicing the PBAEDoT stuff when im out there and... yes, I admit it, leach off 8v8s. :rolleyes:



As for my PvE descision... I was a little harse on it, and instead of directing it at everyone, im just going to select it to a few that I wont help(such as those that have such negative looks on my necro in PvP). Most of outlaws ill help on a whim. So ask away if you need help.



Oh, and thanks for the support guys.