War against Iraq...the final issue???

[Hellraizer]

I just want to know different point of view from people all over the world...and I am trying to make a serious topic for the first time in my life! :wootrock:

[Phoenix]

Already done (http://www.gamemecca.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=8327)

[::: DARK PSI :::]

Ha.. beat ya to it Frenchie! ;)

[Hellraizer]

Originally posted by :: DARK LEVIATHAN ::@Feb 13 2003, 05:17 AM
Ha.. beat ya to it Frenchie! ;)
Again! You @@#$%##$%%?! :bandhead:

[OUTLAWS The Machine]

Hard call man. I wish more countries were behind the cause. I'm not worried about not being able to kick the sh1t out of Iraq. I'm more concerned about loosing relations with other countries.

[ME BIGGD01]

screw the relations with the few ingrate countrys. maybe america should think twice before saving other countrys ass. france, germany will be the one regretting they didnt back us up. i hope we kickem out of nato and hopw we leave the un.

[OUTLAWS WHOCARES]

So if we lose the relations how will they eat.
The fact is the US feeds a good chunck of the world.
What would they do without our food and money?

We recently gave Africa 1billion= dollars to help them with their Aids problem.
What did they say?
Basically they slapped us in the face and said that was not enough.
Not enough Why did we even bother to give it to them.

[ME BIGGD01]

new world order

[OUTLAWS The Machine]

:blink:

[pepper]

I say f*** all the countries that will not back us, get out of the UN, beat the **** out of Iraq and if anybodys got a problem with that lets whip there asses too. I say lets get it on. While we are on this subject we need to remeber all the people that have died for your freedoms and we do not need to sit on our asses and wait for some tea sipper to say its ok (FRANCE) to protect what so many people have died defending. I here alot of people say that they are people just like us thats bull**** I served in the Persian Gulf and I have seen there tactics first hand they hide among their women and children using them like shields. They have no back bone and I say let them perish along with their leaders if they do not have the balls to stand up to them. I am just a redneck so my opnion doen't really count, just thought I would blow off some steam.

[Mr Clean]

I have one to say which I didn't get around to earlier...

F*ck France and their borderline socialist state full of cowards.

Thanks.

[Oscar(WCFD)]

Somtin I read the other day that sorta ties in with the subject, it nails down how I feel about the U.N. and all the B*LL SH*T thats goin on there :mad:

Have you ever stepped into a party and gotten the shivers?
You just don't feel great being there, so you keep asking yourself, exactly why am I here?

The United States is asking that question a lot these days at this big global party. It is paying for this big global party, but it is hated at this big global party.

Never mind that we pick up the tab for the booze, the food and the party hats. We get the distinct impression the folks for whom we're putting on the shindig don't want us at the shindig.

So here's what I propose: Lets leave the shindig. We'll take the punch bowl and don't forget the party favors. Take them all and leave it all.

Germany doesn't like our troop presence in their country. So let's leave their country.

France complains about our pushy role in NATO. So let's leave NATO.

South Korea gripes about our tough North Korean talk. So let's leave them to fend with North Korea.

Puerto Rico wants us off the island of Vieques. So lets leave Vieques and while we're at it, leave Puerto Rico too.

How different the world would be if the United States weren't busy looking after it.

France, you don't like us doing it? You have a go at it.

Germany, you don't like the way we tackle global bullies? You tackle them.

Belgium, you don't like the way we're pressuring the United Nations? Why don't you pick up the tab to run the U.N.

For too long and for too many we have been too giving. So let's stop playing patsies, stop paying their bills, stop protecting their interests and stop enduring their bitching.

And for what? A slap in the face and a stab in the back.

No more. You don't want us? You won't get us.

And the next time some threat is coming your way, you deal with it.

You're too busy to help look after us? We'll don't be surprised if we don't pick up the phone, when you're desperately wondering, who is going to look after you.

[Die Hard]

:hmmm:

[ME BIGGD01]

well if you think out economy is bad wit until they get the backdraft. it seems as they are ganging up on us but we are going to do what we need to do. it's a shame though that the countrys we saved are being like this and all the countrys that turned on us after we supported them. they may think we need them but we'll just see about that. i hope america learned there lesson. i definately hope we leave the un and kick france out of nato. well its just us and the brits. we are constantly underestimated so soon the world will wake up.

DONT MESS WITH THE U.S.

RED WHITE AND BLUE---------THESE COLORS DON'T RUN

[Haze]

U guy´s really frighten me , do u really want to isolate U.S.A even more?

After reading your postes here , it seem like u guy´s all would be happy

to live alone on the other side of the atlantic.

And u also seem eager to "get in to war" in another country , war is a horror

for everybody , spec the children , but that u dont seem to notice, just bomb

away and u feel great , dont think about the families and the innocent people

that will have to suffer because of that leader is a idiot.

And Tea is a english custom , NOT a french one.

Its just another way to see things , not meant to be offensive.

I like your country , but sometimes it seems to me that u think u are "better"

then other countries.

Humans all over the world is not that different from eachother , its just that

our separate religions makes us "seem" different.


With respect.

:drink:

[ME BIGGD01]

we don't think we are better, we just want the respect we deserve not spit in the face.

we are worried about families---our families

we didnt start this, they did and when it's time to payback support the french screwed us. but actually in the long run they will screw themself along with germany. i hope our soldiers there are removed withing the week. i think over 700,000 troops will be reassigned out of germany.

i can't see where you can say we want war. as i see it americans are p'od at the ingrates.

[Dick Steel]

Originally posted by OrangeHaze@Feb 13 2003, 01:52 PM
I like your country , but sometimes it seems to me that u think u are "better"

then other countries.
yes! i have heard that here in Finland too !!!!!!!!!! :wacko:

[Saretta]

I start to feel uncomfortable in here :unsure: :wacko:

[Haze]

Yes . i think so 2 , but the topic was about what people think, its not a personal abuse.

I hope we can have different "points of view" and not get steamed up about it , i dident mean to

insult anybody , if i did that , then im really sorry.

I hope we can keep this topic civil and not start to abuse eachother.

We ALL see things differently, there´s nothing strange about that , thats life

I dont think USA will remove the forces from germany or france , just what i think.

Keep it nice please.

[Pure_Evil]

Topics like this tend to bring out the ugly in people. :unsure:

[Sauron]

I think that quote from an Helloween song describes it pretty good!

"Hey we think we're supersonic
And we make our bombs atomic
or the better quite neutronic
but the poor don't see a dime

Nowadays the air polluted
ancient people persecuted
that's what mankind contributed
to create a better time"


Thta's the only thing u will hear from me to any of this topics!

[Mr Clean]

I like your country , but sometimes it seems to me that u think u are "better"

then other countries.

America comes off as arrogant sometimes, and as a result people in other countries get that impression. I wish that didn't happen, but it does.

But the French think they are better than everyone else, yet it is just part of "being French"! The Japanese, the Chinese, India, etc etc etc are the same way. But you don't hear people talk about that, do you?

What have those countries done for countries in Central America every time an earthquake or hurricane hits? For people in Turkey when an earthquake hits? When's the last time they gave 1 billion dollars to fight AIDS in Africa? If it wasn't for us there wouldn't be a South Korea.

You'll have to excuse us Americans. We sometimes sound conceitful and arrogant. Do we bully? Yes, but at least we have the guts to do what needs to be done. It's easy for other people in other countries to criticize. They don't have our responsibility, they aren't the one the world turns to hat in hand time and time again.

So I apologize for my country's faults. But not what we do or how we do it.

[Dick Steel]

Originally posted by Mr Clean@Feb 13 2003, 06:07 PM
But the French think they are better than everyone else, yet it is just part of "being French"!
YES, i have heard that too :wacko:

[Pure_Evil]

Originally posted by Mr Clean@Feb 13 2003, 11:07 AM
What have those countries done for countries in Central America every time an earthquake or hurricane hits? For people in Turkey when an earthquake hits? When's the last time they gave 1 billion dollars to fight AIDS in Africa? If it wasn't for us there wouldn't be a South Korea.

You'll have to excuse us Americans. We sometimes sound conceitful and arrogant. Do we bully? Yes, but at least we have the guts to do what needs to be done. It's easy for other people in other countries to criticize. They don't have our responsibility, they aren't the one the world turns to hat in hand time and time again.

So I apologize for my country's faults. But not what we do or how we do it.
Hmmm. Evil agreeing with Baldy :hmmm: need :drink: J/K Mr.C but you make a vallid point :thumbs:

[Haze]

I could reply to your post Mr clean , but i think i see
were this is going.

I dont see any reason for us to continue with this topic , we
are only gonna post alot of B.S , even if we dont mean all we say,
it will only be somekind of competion on who does the most fault.

I was just trying to make a little conversation from a different
"point of view", but that seems not to be a good idéa.
I think the emotion´s in this "spec" topic can really "go throw the roof".

Shall we close it here , seems good to me , what u think?

BTW: I got family in the U.S , so what side u think im on really?

[Hellraizer]

Originally posted by Mr Clean@Feb 13 2003, 08:33 AM
I have one to say which I didn't get around to earlier...

F*ck France and their borderline socialist state full of cowards.

Thanks.
I am a french.... but a french canadian!!! The reason why France wont go to war is simple....OIL!!! What about China??? Thez are the biggest consumer of oil in the world.... What about Russia..... most of the oil wells in Iraq belongs to them....

[Sirc]

Why doesn't everyone just take a deep breath and consider the fact that we have friends on these forums that are from some of the countries you guys are trashing. Relax.

And BIGG, I may be wrong, but I don't think we have 700,000 troops in Germany. :hmmm:

[pepper]

I want to apologize for my comments last night that I made on this thread. I just get so upset when I hear the words war and Iraq in the same sentence. The reason for this up coming war should not even be an issue, meaning if we would of done our job the first time this topic would not even be a issue. I spent to many years in that desert and probably breathed to many toxic fumes and for what; the same dumb ass to rise up again and try to push us around. I hate war and I have experienced war and I wish this was not a possiblity in the near future because nobody ever really wins. So my prayers are with the world tonight.

[ME BIGGD01]

sirc, i added too many zeros--ooops. the amount is 71,455 troops.

[SASQUATCH]

I am not a fan of Bush at all because he uses words that are not clever.
For Example the Axis of Evil which included North Korea does not help matters.

Now we have another thing to worry about because he doesn't know how to use
his words wisely. North Korea is no angel but if we put pressure on them it will escalate and may come to war just like what we did to Japan when we stop and blockaded the Oil that they needed but that was done in order for us to get into the war because Germany was winning and we had to get the USA people to believe in this war. Pearl Harbor the Americans knew we were going to be attacked. The sh1t that was so funny is that the commander did not alert his units for the weekend when we were attacked. That has to be one of many blundering time in our history.

When World War I broke out and after it was over I believe President Wilson
wanted the UN or it will lead us to another great war. Well it did and it was WW2.
Without UN there will be no peace and that is a fact and has been tested already.

If you really wanted to get SADDAM Husayn out believe me we could have him out in many ways instead of war. France and Germany are worried and so are we at home like many of the senators. Also the oil plays a roll, which to me makes it gluttony and paranoid between our allies and other countries.

This process takes time and no matter what we may feel it takes time and it should be the last thing to do and that is war. If the USA becomes a little more patience, I am so sure that Germany and France will join in because SADDAM Husayn is not fully cooperating but is cleverly wasting time but that will not last long believe me. He is running out of options but if the USA continues to become aggressive then SADDAM Husayn is getting what he wants and that is having our allies go against each other. Patience and you will see that we will join in together and get SADDAM Husayn out completely.


My history is rusty but we do need to stop and think before we go into war and like I said, SADDAM Husayn is running out of time and many countries like Germany, France and Russia will see this and realize. I say wait a little more time and we will come together and handle this the right way. I would hope that SADDAM Husayn would step down for his own sake and for the people in Iraq who will suffer.

Many people don't realize how serious this is and how this can turn out to be the beginning of a bad start between our allies for this century. I would be surprise if we make it before the year 2010. History speaks for itself and repeats itself and that is why it is a good thing to remember about history.

There is more to go into but it will require to look through carefully but what is more important is to be patience and tolerant when needed. This is the time to be tolerant and use our words wisely.

[Pure_Evil]

:hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm: Well put.

[ME BIGGD01]

no matter what we are going to war. we have to, so all must brace for it. we did finish the war in 91 with iraq. we went by the book. saddam signed the sanctions and than renaged on them but we had bill clinton as president and he was to busy getting head instead of pursuing the inspections. everyone blames bush for the world today. i guess it's easier to do that but the truth of the matter america has been through alot and yet bush has managed to keep out head above the water. think about this. 9/11--corporate scams--war in afganistan---iraq---etc etc. still pretty good if you ask me. problem with americans are they are spoiled and god forbid if they have to tighten there belts a litlle or suffer. spoiled brats the most of americans and they all better get there act together because we may be strongest nation but even the strong can fall. i like bush and will not start that debate. don't get caught up with the democrat hype who do nothing but change there minds to make a republican look bad. they forget the disgrace they cause to this country with all the clinton scams. they were bad for this country and corrupt murderers. i hope hillary gets herpes from bills extra marital affairs. i will spit in her face if i get the chance.

[SASQUATCH]

Originally posted by ME BIGGD01@Feb 13 2003, 10:25 PM
no matter what we are going to war. we have to, so all must brace for it. we did finish the war in 91 with iraq. we went by the book. saddam signed the sanctions and than renaged on them but we had bill clinton as president and he was to busy getting head instead of pursuing the inspections. everyone blames bush for the world today. i guess it's easier to do that but the truth of the matter america has been through alot and yet bush has managed to keep out head above the water. think about this. 9/11--corporate scams--war in afganistan---iraq---etc etc. still pretty good if you ask me. problem with americans are they are spoiled and god forbid if they have to tighten there belts a litlle or suffer. spoiled brats the most of americans and they all better get there act together because we may be strongest nation but even the strong can fall. i like bush and will not start that debate. don't get caught up with the democrat hype who do nothing but change there minds to make a republican look bad. they forget the disgrace they cause to this country with all the clinton scams. they were bad for this country and corrupt murderers. i hope hillary gets herpes from bills extra marital affairs. i will spit in her face if i get the chance.
Bush is not a bad president but isn’t the best spokesman. This is not about republicans and democrats; it’s about using the words wisely and finding every possible way to work out this problem. Saddam must go and that is a fact and I agree but we must find and approach this very carefully or we will begin a new thread between allies and that is something I don’t want and to keep the UN together. When the first senior president Bush was in office, he should have ended Saddam right then. We had the 101st airborne division and special task force right next to Saddam and if you don’t believe me look through the journal and you will see what I mean.

UN must stand together or we will get so much pressure that it will turn for the worse.

[OUTLAWS BIOHAZARD]

All I have to say is hope for the best and just move on but always remember and always care but just move on. All we all do our best and thats all we can ask for in return and if worse comes to worse we all have each other and we will all stick togeather. I know war is not the solution but if that is what is nessessary then that is what will happen. Everyone knows that the past reflects apon the future and what is done has passed and there is nothing we can do about it but make sure the mistakes are not repeated. I hope everything and everyone has a good life no matter what the results may be.

Thanks alot!
BIOHAZARD

[Mr Clean]

Originally posted by Pure_Evil+Feb 13 2003, 10:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pure_Evil @ Feb 13 2003, 10:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Mr Clean@Feb 13 2003, 11:07 AM
What have those countries done for countries in Central America every time an earthquake or hurricane hits?&nbsp; For people in Turkey when an earthquake hits?&nbsp; When&#39;s the last time they gave 1 billion dollars to fight AIDS in Africa?&nbsp; If it wasn&#39;t for us there wouldn&#39;t be a South Korea.

You&#39;ll have to excuse us Americans.&nbsp; We sometimes sound conceitful and arrogant.&nbsp; Do we bully?&nbsp; Yes, but at least we have the guts to do what needs to be done.&nbsp; It&#39;s easy for other people in other countries to criticize.&nbsp; They don&#39;t have our responsibility, they aren&#39;t the one the world turns to hat in hand time and time again.

So I apologize for my country&#39;s faults.&nbsp; But not what we do or how we do it.
Hmmm. Evil agreeing with Baldy :hmmm: need :drink: J/K Mr.C but you make a vallid point :thumbs: [/b][/quote]
LOL...no wait, I take it all back then.... :P

[Mr Clean]

I could reply to your post Mr clean , but i think i see
were this is going.

I dont see any reason for us to continue with this topic , we
are only gonna post alot of B.S , even if we dont mean all we say,
it will only be somekind of competion on who does the most fault.

I was just trying to make a little conversation from a different
"point of view", but that seems not to be a good idéa.
I think the emotion´s in this "spec" topic can really "go throw the roof".

Shall we close it here , seems good to me , what u think?

BTW: I got family in the U.S , so what side u think im on really?

That&#39;s cool, I think I made my point. I didn&#39;t think you were on Iraq&#39;s side, btw, and even if you were that&#39;s your right to think whatever you want.

My issues are always with the words, never the person...

[MR. SLiK]

Yep I actually read that in my book. Bush Senior instead waited for the people against Saddam after the gulf war to take him down but they were too weak and he stayed in power. Conservative approach.

[::: DARK PSI :::]

Originally posted by Mr Clean@Feb 13 2003, 12:07 PM

I like your country , but sometimes it seems to me that u think u are "better"

then other countries.

America comes off as arrogant sometimes, and as a result people in other countries get that impression. I wish that didn&#39;t happen, but it does.

But the French think they are better than everyone else, yet it is just part of "being French"&#33; The Japanese, the Chinese, India, etc etc etc are the same way. But you don&#39;t hear people talk about that, do you?

What have those countries done for countries in Central America every time an earthquake or hurricane hits? For people in Turkey when an earthquake hits? When&#39;s the last time they gave 1 billion dollars to fight AIDS in Africa? If it wasn&#39;t for us there wouldn&#39;t be a South Korea.

You&#39;ll have to excuse us Americans. We sometimes sound conceitful and arrogant. Do we bully? Yes, but at least we have the guts to do what needs to be done. It&#39;s easy for other people in other countries to criticize. They don&#39;t have our responsibility, they aren&#39;t the one the world turns to hat in hand time and time again.

So I apologize for my country&#39;s faults. But not what we do or how we do it.
Hear HEAR&#33;

[SASQUATCH]

British Prime Minister Tony Blair is getting hammered by is own people and the United States has to play the roll of convincing all it’s allies. That includes France and Germany who are very important to the UN. You may not believe it but the UN is the key to unit us together for the future, if we are ever to have one at all man.

:angel:

[Mr Clean]

France is as important as a diet is to Oprah. You seeing history Sas....the uselessness ot the UN is about to expire...

[pepper]

Originally posted by SASQUATCH@Feb 14 2003, 03:12 AM
If you really wanted to get SADDAM Husayn out believe me we could have him out in many ways instead of war. France and Germany are worried and so are we at home like many of the senators. Also the oil plays a roll, which to me makes it gluttony and paranoid between our allies and other countries.


If we really wanted to get Saddam out we could and SAS is right with that comment but the point is not getting just Saddam out, because if we just over throw him there will be someone just like him or even worse take his place. Its kinda like Hitler we needed to take him out and his goverment. The same needs to be done to Saddam and his crew. So the point of just getting Saddam out would be a mute point. So it will take war to over thow his hole goverment.

Also, yes oil does play a vital role, but there are reserves out there in new countrys now that were not a factor in WW2 and most of the oil that at least my company process is a sweet crude from Venezula or a sour crude from Canada and we are one of the biggest refiners in the U.S.. So in my opion oil will not be an factor with this war.

[SASQUATCH]

Originally posted by pepper+Feb 14 2003, 07:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pepper @ Feb 14 2003, 07:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--SASQUATCH@Feb 14 2003, 03:12 AM
If you really wanted to get SADDAM Husayn out believe me we could have him out in many ways instead of war. France and Germany are worried and so are we at home like many of the senators. Also the oil plays a roll, which to me makes it gluttony and paranoid between our allies and other countries.


If we really wanted to get Saddam out we could and SAS is right with that comment but the point is not getting just Saddam out, because if we just over throw him there will be someone just like him or even worse take his place. Its kinda like Hitler we needed to take him out and his goverment. The same needs to be done to Saddam and his crew. So the point of just getting Saddam out would be a mute point. So it will take war to over thow his hole goverment.

Also, yes oil does play a vital role, but there are reserves out there in new countrys now that were not a factor in WW2 and most of the oil that at least my company process is a sweet crude from Venezula or a sour crude from Canada and we are one of the biggest refiners in the U.S.. So in my opion oil will not be an factor with this war. [/b][/quote]
Saddam is out I see a better future for Iraq because most of the people in the office will not go against him because of what happen when Saddam became leader in 1979 and had many killed for betraying him and that is why they are afraid to go against him. There is no trust in that government, which makes it hard for anyone to go against him

By Middle East analyst Gerald Butt
Saddam Hussein, President of Iraq for the past two decades, has the dubious distinction of being the world&#39;s best known and most hated Arab leader.

And in a region where despotic rule is the norm, he is more feared by his own people than any other head of state.

A former Iraqi diplomat living in exile summed up Saddam&#39;s rule in one sentence: "Saddam is a dictator who is ready to sacrifice his country, just so long as he can remain on his throne in Baghdad." Few Iraqis would disagree with this. Although none living in Iraq would dare to say so publicly.

The Iraqi people are forced to consume a daily diet of triumphalist slogans, fattened by fawning praise of the president.
End of story.

As for the Oil I will not agree but do respect what you have to say in it my friend.
Now I could come up with good reason why I disagree with you about the Oil but it will only prelong this subject.
So with respect I say thank you and I am no longer getting involve with this subject anymore.
I just hope that we find a better way to unit us together.



SAS

[SASQUATCH]

Originally posted by Mr Clean@Feb 14 2003, 04:49 PM
France is as important as a diet is to Oprah. You seeing history Sas....the uselessness ot the UN is about to expire...
Mr. Clean if the UN does expire, rest assure that we will have a major war soon in the coming years that will follow.
This war will destroy everything we own and love ones and the earth will be almost impossible to live in. :bawling: :wacko:

[Sirc]

Ha. We and UK are going to end up fighting Iraq alone. We already have all of our troops in place. It&#39;s a done deal I think. We can&#39;t keep that many troops over there with no action for 2 or 3 more months. It is coming. ph34r

[SASQUATCH]

Originally posted by OUTLAWS Sirc@Feb 14 2003, 11:21 PM
Ha. We and UK are going to end up fighting Iraq alone. We already have all of our troops in place. It&#39;s a done deal I think. We can&#39;t keep that many troops over there with no action for 2 or 3 more months. It is coming. ph34r
It will happen you are right but I only wish to get the UN together to do this including France and Germany and others.

[Sirc]

Some day soon a call will be made to pull the inspectors out of Iraq immediately. Then you will know it is imminent.

Yes, it would be nice if the full Nato support was behind it. But I doubt that that will happen. At least not in the beginning.

[Haze]

Originally posted by SASQUATCH+Feb 15 2003, 05:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SASQUATCH @ Feb 15 2003, 05:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--OUTLAWS Sirc@Feb 14 2003, 11:21 PM
Ha.&nbsp; We and UK are going to end up fighting Iraq alone.&nbsp; We already have all of our troops in place.&nbsp; It&#39;s a done deal I think.&nbsp; We can&#39;t keep that many troops over there with no action for 2 or 3 more months.&nbsp; It is coming.&nbsp; ph34r
It will happen you are right but I only wish to get the UN together to do this including France and Germany and others. [/b][/quote]
I think u get more support soon.

In my country the number of people that support USA for a war is around 65-70% of the population.

And i think soon the "winds will change" all over europe and UN will support USA.

If that not happens and USA go to war without the support of UN , then i think we are gonna

be in for some really bad times.

[Mr Clean]

Originally posted by SASQUATCH+Feb 14 2003, 10:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SASQUATCH @ Feb 14 2003, 10:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Mr Clean@Feb 14 2003, 04:49 PM
France is as important as a diet is to Oprah.&nbsp; You seeing history Sas....the uselessness ot the UN is about to expire...
Mr. Clean if the UN does expire, rest assure that we will have a major war soon in the coming years that will follow.
This war will destroy everything we own and love ones and the earth will be almost impossible to live in. :bawling: :wacko: [/b][/quote]
You have to be kidding me Sas. The UN is a do nothing organization. The only thing we&#39;d have to worry about is who&#39;s gonna rent a building in New York with 250 flag poles....

[pepper]

This thread has been getting out of hand. Here we are writing each other back in forth and there are young man and women getting ready to die because some old rich men can not get along. Our views do not matter to any of them and its not what our how our different countrys look at this sort of thing. All that matters to these young man and women is that they get home to see there loved ones one more time.
Its pretty sad when all we do is argue, when we should be praying or what ever you do that this war does not happen and that will return home safe. Its easy for me to say just nukem but what the child, mother, and wife that looses a son, husband, and father; what will we say to them about this subject to them then.
I think we need to stop giving our opionons on this subject and start praying for everyone to return home safe and for the people of Iraq. So I am going to start a prayer here on this thread and I hope that some sort of prayer will continue and instead of our views.


[COLOR=blue][FONT=Impact][FONT=Arial][SIZE=7] Dear lord I wish you could put a stop to this and bring peace to the world. If war does come protect the innocent and let it end quickly. Forgive our leaders and let our countrys get past this horriable time in history so that our young will not have to know war and devastation. My one wish is peace please grant us this. Amen

[Sirc]

Amen&#33;

[Bones]

Originally posted by Mr Clean@Feb 13 2003, 08:07 AM

I like your country , but sometimes it seems to me that u think u are "better"

then other countries.

When&#39;s the last time they gave 1 billion dollars to fight AIDS in Africa?
My position: I live in the USA and I like it here.
My philosophy: I try not to make any judgements until I&#39;ve thoroughly researched any matter.

There&#39;s a difference between talking about giving money and actually giving money.

An article:
Tommy Thompson booed at the Barcelona AIDS conference. (http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/07/09/thompson.aids.conference/index.html)

[SASQUATCH]

Originally posted by Mr Clean+Feb 15 2003, 01:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr Clean @ Feb 15 2003, 01:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -SASQUATCH@Feb 14 2003, 10:20 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mr Clean@Feb 14 2003, 04:49 PM
France is as important as a diet is to Oprah.* You seeing history Sas....the uselessness ot the UN is about to expire...
Mr. Clean if the UN does expire, rest assure that we will have a major war soon in the coming years that will follow.
This war will destroy everything we own and love ones and the earth will be almost impossible to live in. :bawling: :wacko:
You have to be kidding me Sas. The UN is a do nothing organization. The only thing we&#39;d have to worry about is who&#39;s gonna rent a building in New York with 250 flag poles.... [/b][/quote]
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

That was very funny. . . . :rofl: :thumbs:

[SASQUATCH]

Let&#39;s hope for the best.

I hate war and would hope a peaceful solution.


UN is important and it&#39;s not just about hanging poles Mr. Clean. :rofl:

[SASQUATCH]

Originally posted by pepper@Feb 15 2003, 05:46 PM
This thread has been getting out of hand. Here we are writing each other back in forth and there are young man and women getting ready to die because some old rich men can not get along. Our views do not matter to any of them and its not what our how our different countrys look at this sort of thing. All that matters to these young man and women is that they get home to see there loved ones one more time.
Its pretty sad when all we do is argue, when we should be praying or what ever you do that this war does not happen and that will return home safe. Its easy for me to say just nukem but what the child, mother, and wife that looses a son, husband, and father; what will we say to them about this subject to them then.
I think we need to stop giving our opionons on this subject and start praying for everyone to return home safe and for the people of Iraq. So I am going to start a prayer here on this thread and I hope that some sort of prayer will continue and instead of our views.


[COLOR=blue][FONT=Impact][FONT=Arial][SIZE=7] Dear lord I wish you could put a stop to this and bring peace to the world. If war does come protect the innocent and let it end quickly. Forgive our leaders and let our countrys get past this horriable time in history so that our young will not have to know war and devastation. My one wish is peace please grant us this. Amen

To talk about it and expressing opinion but in a respectful way is ok as long as ideas can help the matter.

No one wants war but only provide what is needed more on this earth.

Years to come we will one day unified together and that maybe a long time
but it will happen.

More things are important that need attention and there is a huge list.

Our young generation is on it&#39;s way and will have to deal with many new things to come.
What I don&#39;t want is that we never forget history because it will play a major roll in our future.

[Bones]

Think the war is not about oil at all? I wouldn&#39;t be so sure...

According to BP Statistical Review of World Energy, 1996, Iraq has the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world.
Source: Institute of Petroleum -- Oil - A Natural Resource - Where is the ... (http://www.petroleum.co.uk/education/natural/3.htm)

Who stands to gain if US attacks Iraq? Oil and oil services companies like Halliburton, etc.
A BusinessWeek article: It&#39;s Not "All About Oil," But... ('http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jan2003/nf20030130_7199.htm')

Halliburton, as some of you might recall, is Dick Cheney&#39;s former employer. He was CEO from 1995-2000.
A look at Bush-Cheney Political Contributions for 1999-2000 (http://www.allhatnocattle.net/bush-cheney%20contributions.htm).

None of this is "evidence" of anything. It&#39;s just that, to me, Bush&#39;s agenda in Iraq isn&#39;t as clear as he says. If we&#39;re against weapons of mass destruction, what are we doing about North Korea? They have nuclear weapons and even admitted it. Iraq denies having any and no UN inspectors can find any.

Make up your own minds. Peace.

[Intense Fury]

we should just bomb iraq and north karea we have enough men to it should be like south park and some one just kill him

[ME BIGGD01]

well north korea crisis makes me abit nervous and action should be takes asap. they already threatened us and that should not be tolerated. do not be suprised if china invades taiwan through this mess between iraq and taiwan. be prepared it&#39;s going to happend. also stop saying this is for oil because if it was we would of just took it in 90&#39;s when we were at war first. since when has america taken something like that. like ww2 we could of taken the worrld but we didnt so stop saying we want war for oil. ever think about the sanctions?

[Tomaz]

dont bomb them or bomb them all..........

bush only wants war&#33; The USA citizens had to vote for Al Gore Goddamnit&#33;

[ME BIGGD01]

yeah, al gore---you should thank god al gore is not president. you should do some research on al gore and all his screw ups and corruptness. be real, bush gave them every chance to comply to un resolutions. saddam refuses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and 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and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses

get the point?

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by ME BIGGD01@Feb 16 2003, 12:12 PM
yeah, al gore---you should thank god al gore is not president. you should do some research on al gore and all his screw ups and corruptness. be real, bush gave them every chance to comply to un resolutions. saddam refuses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and 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and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses and refuses and refuses and refuseses

get the point?
bush only wants the ****ing war well if he wants war then he can get one.

there are 2 things on this world that i hate
1. Muslims
2. Bush

The same or not the same? who should know..... But we should killemall

[SASQUATCH]

Tomaz It&#39;s is about voicing out but not hating ok.

BIGG - When Bush said Axis of evil, which included Iraq & N. Korea
That was a threat by US toward N. Korea.

To compare them to Iraq and in those words that Bush said, is telling them
your next.

Bush must use his words wisely and I am so sure that when he open his mouth
and said that many of his advisors must have said something to him about it.

If you notice now that Bush is now more aware of what he says when dealing with N. Korea.

China will not invade Taiwan because if they do many of the allies including UN will go against it. China is not in no position to deal with that, but they are more interested in the economy. China has much to invest in this and will not take that chance. I would very much like to see a better relationship with China. When Nixon was in office, he was the only president to open channels with China and with respect good old Henry K. who has experience when it came to foreign policy. No other US foreign or president ever did a better job relating with China then those two knuckle heads especially Nixon.

China is very important and the US should focus more in working out a better relationship with them.


SAS

[Mr Clean]

Here we go again...


This thread has been getting out of hand. Here we are writing each other back in forth and there are young man and women getting ready to die because some old rich men can not get along. Our views do not matter to any of them and its not what our how our different countrys look at this sort of thing. All that matters to these young man and women is that they get home to see there loved ones one more time.

I think this thread is great. It&#39;s agood discussion, lots of points of view.

I don&#39;t want anyone to die, let me make that quite clear. But I would like to humbly remind you that no one forced them to join the military. If you afraid of getting involved in a conflict you shouldn&#39;t join up. Again, I wish no harm on them, but remember that they signed up for a job and now they have to do it.


Years to come we will one day unified together and that maybe a long time
but it will happen.

Sas, I wish that were true. I hope it happens. I don&#39;t see it, though, friend. I hope to hell I&#39;m wrong...


None of this is "evidence" of anything. It&#39;s just that, to me, Bush&#39;s agenda in Iraq isn&#39;t as clear as he says. If we&#39;re against weapons of mass destruction, what are we doing about North Korea? They have nuclear weapons and even admitted it. Iraq denies having any and no UN inspectors can find any.

Iraq does not have the second largest reserves. I know Russia and Saudi Arabia have more. I&#39;m not sure where they fall as far as rank goes....of course trying to find two survey&#39;s that agree is impossible anyways...

The difference is that N Korea is a puppet state of China, which has about 250,000 soldiers stationed on it&#39;s border with N korea. They don&#39;t like foreign armies getting too close to their borders (see the Korean War). Plus we don&#39;t want to piss off China because they would probably decide to harm our friends on Taiwan. Lastly, China is the one calling the shots and they know better than to launch a nuke...they are in charge in N Korea. No one besides Saddam is in charge of Iraq, and he&#39;s shown he&#39;ll do anything to win a fight in the past (tortured family, gassed his own people, invaded sovereign states, etc). He&#39;s the loose cannon on planet Earth....


China will not invade Taiwan because if they do many of the allies including UN will go against it. China is not in no position to deal with that, but they are more interested in the economy

China is VERY full of themselves, and just like other Asian countries they see the rest of the world as below them. They WANT Taiwan, it is an embarrassment to them that Taiwan is not "officially" part of them. f they get the chance they will make a move. Taiwan is a democracy and should be protected by us.

[SASQUATCH]

Originally posted by Mr Clean@Feb 16 2003, 04:18 PM
Here we go again...


This thread has been getting out of hand. Here we are writing each other back in forth and there are young man and women getting ready to die because some old rich men can not get along. Our views do not matter to any of them and its not what our how our different countrys look at this sort of thing. All that matters to these young man and women is that they get home to see there loved ones one more time.

I think this thread is great. It&#39;s agood discussion, lots of points of view.

I don&#39;t want anyone to die, let me make that quite clear. But I would like to humbly remind you that no one forced them to join the military. If you afraid of getting involved in a conflict you shouldn&#39;t join up. Again, I wish no harm on them, but remember that they signed up for a job and now they have to do it.


Years to come we will one day unified together and that maybe a long time
but it will happen.

Sas, I wish that were true. I hope it happens. I don&#39;t see it, though, friend. I hope to hell I&#39;m wrong...


None of this is "evidence" of anything. It&#39;s just that, to me, Bush&#39;s agenda in Iraq isn&#39;t as clear as he says. If we&#39;re against weapons of mass destruction, what are we doing about North Korea? They have nuclear weapons and even admitted it. Iraq denies having any and no UN inspectors can find any.

Iraq does not have the second largest reserves. I know Russia and Saudi Arabia have more. I&#39;m not sure where they fall as far as rank goes....of course trying to find two survey&#39;s that agree is impossible anyways...

The difference is that N Korea is a puppet state of China, which has about 250,000 soldiers stationed on it&#39;s border with N korea. They don&#39;t like foreign armies getting too close to their borders (see the Korean War). Plus we don&#39;t want to piss off China because they would probably decide to harm our friends on Taiwan. Lastly, China is the one calling the shots and they know better than to launch a nuke...they are in charge in N Korea. No one besides Saddam is in charge of Iraq, and he&#39;s shown he&#39;ll do anything to win a fight in the past (tortured family, gassed his own people, invaded sovereign states, etc). He&#39;s the loose cannon on planet Earth....


China will not invade Taiwan because if they do many of the allies including UN will go against it. China is not in no position to deal with that, but they are more interested in the economy

China is VERY full of themselves, and just like other Asian countries they see the rest of the world as below them. They WANT Taiwan, it is an embarrassment to them that Taiwan is not "officially" part of them. f they get the chance they will make a move. Taiwan is a democracy and should be protected by us.
Mr. Clean. :rofl:


Our views are different and that is fine for everyone.

I guess it&#39;s time to leave it alone and it was good while it last.

I wanted to thank everyone for there own point of views.


I say we move on to another point of discussions like the space program.

That should be interesting to talk about.

I think I will start that in another thread ok guys but I will wait until tomorrow. :rofl: :thumbs:

[Bones]

Originally posted by ME BIGGD01@Feb 16 2003, 02:49 AM
do not be suprised if china invades taiwan through this mess between iraq and taiwan.* be prepared it&#39;s going to happend.
China will not invade Taiwan, because:
1. There are too many economic ties between them.
2. Improving relations between them (http://publish.gio.gov.tw/FCJ/current/03021411.html).
3. China&#39;s main focus is on economics.

As this article (http://asia.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/12/23/willy.column/) mentions, China announced the goal to quadruple their economy by the year 2020 and they&#39;re wary of Kim&#39;s actions in N Korea.

A source close to the diplomatic establishment in Beijing said if some form of military conflict were to erupt between the U.S. and North Korea, it is most improbable that Beijing would commit troops to defend its ally.

Another article (http://www.iht.com/articles/82076.html) shows why China probably won&#39;t do a thing: South Korea is now the 5th largest foreign investor in China. Behind Taiwan.


China is VERY full of themselves
Are you implying that national pride is a bad thing™?

[pepper]

Originally posted by Mr Clean@Feb 16 2003, 09:18 PM
Here we go again...


This thread has been getting out of hand. Here we are writing each other back in forth and there are young man and women getting ready to die because some old rich men can not get along. Our views do not matter to any of them and its not what our how our different countrys look at this sort of thing. All that matters to these young man and women is that they get home to see there loved ones one more time.

I think this thread is great. It&#39;s agood discussion, lots of points of view.

I don&#39;t want anyone to die, let me make that quite clear. But I would like to humbly remind you that no one forced them to join the military. If you afraid of getting involved in a conflict you shouldn&#39;t join up. Again, I wish no harm on them, but remember that they signed up for a job and now they have to do it.


Years to come we will one day unified together and that maybe a long time
but it will happen.

Sas, I wish that were true. I hope it happens. I don&#39;t see it, though, friend. I hope to hell I&#39;m wrong...


None of this is "evidence" of anything. It&#39;s just that, to me, Bush&#39;s agenda in Iraq isn&#39;t as clear as he says. If we&#39;re against weapons of mass destruction, what are we doing about North Korea? They have nuclear weapons and even admitted it. Iraq denies having any and no UN inspectors can find any.

Iraq does not have the second largest reserves. I know Russia and Saudi Arabia have more. I&#39;m not sure where they fall as far as rank goes....of course trying to find two survey&#39;s that agree is impossible anyways...

The difference is that N Korea is a puppet state of China, which has about 250,000 soldiers stationed on it&#39;s border with N korea. They don&#39;t like foreign armies getting too close to their borders (see the Korean War). Plus we don&#39;t want to piss off China because they would probably decide to harm our friends on Taiwan. Lastly, China is the one calling the shots and they know better than to launch a nuke...they are in charge in N Korea. No one besides Saddam is in charge of Iraq, and he&#39;s shown he&#39;ll do anything to win a fight in the past (tortured family, gassed his own people, invaded sovereign states, etc). He&#39;s the loose cannon on planet Earth....


China will not invade Taiwan because if they do many of the allies including UN will go against it. China is not in no position to deal with that, but they are more interested in the economy

China is VERY full of themselves, and just like other Asian countries they see the rest of the world as below them. They WANT Taiwan, it is an embarrassment to them that Taiwan is not "officially" part of them. f they get the chance they will make a move. Taiwan is a democracy and should be protected by us.
Point taken Clean about no one forced them to join, I know that as well as anbody since I have been in 3 war zones in my short life. What I was trying to convey was that there alot of people out there saying lets go to war know but there is alot of things to consider than just saying lets go to war. I was trying to get everybody to remeber the young men and women and what they are about to do for us and maybe include them in prayer if they had the time. Thats all I was saying on the subject when I said this thread is getting out of hand.

[SASQUATCH]

Originally posted by Bones+Feb 16 2003, 08:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bones @ Feb 16 2003, 08:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ME BIGGD01@Feb 16 2003, 02:49 AM
do not be suprised if china invades taiwan through this mess between iraq and taiwan.* be prepared it&#39;s going to happend.
China will not invade Taiwan, because:
1. There are too many economic ties between them.
2. Improving relations between them (http://publish.gio.gov.tw/FCJ/current/03021411.html).
3. China&#39;s main focus is on economics.

As this article (http://asia.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/12/23/willy.column/) mentions, China announced the goal to quadruple their economy by the year 2020 and they&#39;re wary of Kim&#39;s actions in N Korea.

A source close to the diplomatic establishment in Beijing said if some form of military conflict were to erupt between the U.S. and North Korea, it is most improbable that Beijing would commit troops to defend its ally.

Another article (http://www.iht.com/articles/82076.html) shows why China probably won&#39;t do a thing: South Korea is now the 5th largest foreign investor in China. Behind Taiwan.


China is VERY full of themselves
Are you implying that national pride is a bad thing™? [/b][/quote]
Thank you Bones for clearing that up.

China is important and there concern is to improve the economy and better relationship.

Now let&#39;s close this thread and move on to a new subject.

SAS

[Mr Clean]

What I was trying to convey was that there alot of people out there saying lets go to war know but there is alot of things to consider than just saying lets go to war. I was trying to get everybody to remeber the young men and women and what they are about to do for us and maybe include them in prayer if they had the time. Thats all I was saying on the subject when I said this thread is getting out of hand

I agree Pepper. I don&#39;t want to see anyone harmed.


Are you implying that national pride is a bad thing™?

Nope, but that&#39;s not what I&#39;m talking about. They have a bigoted attitude that if you aren&#39;t Chinese you are not capable of being as good as them. It&#39;s a common societal attitude in Asian countries....

BTW Nice job of posting links to support your arguments&#33; I like that....

[Bones]

They have a bigoted attitude that if you aren&#39;t Chinese you are not capable of being as good as them.&nbsp; It&#39;s a common societal attitude in Asian countries....

If it ain&#39;t Chinese, it&#39;s crap. :oooo: Surely I jest...
I don&#39;t really see that attitude being prevalent at all. Sure, when it comes to political matters, I&#39;m sure China&#39;s (or any country&#39;s) attitude is "hands off my country&#33;" towards foreigners. When it comes to business/economics, they&#39;re looking to compete and what&#39;s wrong with getting yourself pumped up? With the general populace, the attitude is reversed. Anything made in any country other than China or Taiwan is superior. If you speak English, you&#39;re better. I have no articles to back this up, but I do read the Chinese papers from time to time, and I&#39;m Chinese. :)

However, I sense the same attitude with many countries. Some of you who posted in this thread earlier feel the same way about America. I&#39;m sure the French feel superior to us. Even Dubya, our fearless leader, said "either you&#39;re with us, or you&#39;re against us" and "we have the right to go to war against Iraq, with or without UN approval". Then again, here are some Bush quotes:


"Perhaps the biggest problem is that we have passed children from grade to grade, year after year, and those -- child hadn&#39;t learned the basics of reading and math." —Washington, D.C., Jan. 8, 2003

"I think the American people—I hope the American—I don&#39;t think, let me—I hope the American people trust me." -—Washington, D.C., Dec. 18, 2002

"There&#39;s an old...saying in Tennessee...I know it&#39;s in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says Fool me once...(3 second pause)... Shame on...(4 second pause)...Shame on you....(6 second pause)...Fool me...Can&#39;t get fooled again." --George W. Bush to Nashville, Tennessee audience, Sept. 17, 2002, MSNBC-TV --Politex, Sept. 17, 2002, 10 PM

"I was proud the other day when both Republicans and Democrats stood with me in the Rose Garden to announce their support for a clear statement of purpose: you disarm, or we will." --George W. Bush, Oct. 5, 2002, Re Iraq debate in Congress

More where that came from... (http://www.bushwatch.com/english.htm)


BTW Nice job of posting links to support your arguments&#33;&nbsp; I like that....

Thanks&#33; :thumbs:

[ME BIGGD01]

i won&#39;t even bother posting on this subject because it&#39;s starting to get to me.

[Tomaz]

bush wants to attack iraq for the oil and for killing saddam no other reason and if he wants oil that much then he sticks a vacum cleaner in his ass hole....

[Frag Junky]

Everyone can sit around and speculate on what we should do. It&#39;s easy to see how to do it better if we are in the back seat. Were not the ones in the drivers seat making the decisions that will kill thousands of people. Don&#39;t get me wrong, I am not a anti-war protester, but if there is one thing that teaches us something is the history of war. Look how many people died in the War between the states, WWI, and WWII. What language would you be speaking now if the wrong had not been righted. Who would be the slave and master. Would you want to be either. Would you want to live in a country that treats their dogs better then their women. Are people to be sold and traded like goods.

Let us not forget what started all of this, We were liberating Kuwait, not going after Iraq&#39;s oil. Did anyone pay attention to the stories of rape and murder committed on innocent people by the invading armies. By all armies through out history.

Should we turn our backs on 9-11 and pretend it never happened. The idea is to go after terrorist no matter where they are. Any one that will experiment with biological weapons on his own people ranks high on the list of take him out, just like Hitler. A man who’s own son rapes women as his hobby, and tortures to death his own Olympic athletes because they don’t play hard enough. Is this another man who will send millions of people to death camps because he thinks his race is better.

If other forum members that are reading this are in these countries, my apologies, but remember, when they do attack, they are coming in with precision bombs meant to take out the defenses, not innocent people. Of all the major wars the world has had, you can count the current strikes as killing the least amount of people.

If only we could settle the world differences in a Fragmatch of Sam, but until that does happen, we can only take what ever steps are necessary to protect the innocent regardless of race or religion. All people are the same regardles of race religion or color. They all have familes. they all have children that shed their blood for the cause.

Ask your self one more question, If you were in the drivers seat, would you fight because you were told too, or would you fight because you belive in righting the wrong. I vote righting the wrong.

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by Mr Clean@Feb 17 2003, 05:38 PM

What I was trying to convey was that there alot of people out there saying lets go to war know but there is alot of things to consider than just saying lets go to war. I was trying to get everybody to remeber the young men and women and what they are about to do for us and maybe include them in prayer if they had the time. Thats all I was saying on the subject when I said this thread is getting out of hand

I agree Pepper. I don&#39;t want to see anyone harmed.


Are you implying that national pride is a bad thing™?

Nope, but that&#39;s not what I&#39;m talking about. They have a bigoted attitude that if you aren&#39;t Chinese you are not capable of being as good as them. It&#39;s a common societal attitude in Asian countries....

BTW Nice job of posting links to support your arguments&#33; I like that....
Whoa turbo&#33;

[Bones]

Would you want to live in a country that treats their dogs better then their women. Are people to be sold and traded like goods.
Are you talking about Iraq or Saudi Arabia? Read Equality of women: Iraq puts US allies to shame (http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/women/story/0,1870,146800,00.html).


Let us not forget what started all of this, We were liberating Kuwait, not going after Iraq&#39;s oil. Did anyone pay attention to the stories of rape and murder committed on innocent people by the invading armies.
In my search through google, I cannot find one article describing Kuwaiti civilian casualties. Even with the search string "kuwaiti civilian casualties desert storm". All articles pointed out Iraqi civilian casualties. Including this one (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Desert_Storm), which estimated Iraqi civilian casualties of up to 35,000 and mentioned no Kuwaiti civilian casualties. Please share with us if you can find any article talking about Kuwaiti casualties.


Should we turn our backs on 9-11 and pretend it never happened.
There are no substantiated reports that Saddam was behind 9-11. In fact, this transcript (http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/08/cf.opinion.saddam.iraq/index.html) from CNN&#39;s Crossfire in a conversation with Begala, Novak, and Richard Perle, clearly points out that there&#39;s no verifiable proof that Saddam is linked to Al Qaeda. Quote: "PERLE: I think you&#39;re confusing issues here. The question is not fundamentally Iraq&#39;s involvement in terrorism and, in particular, Iraq&#39;s involvement with al Qaeda." Richard Perle is chairman of the Defense Policy Board.


they are coming in with precision bombs meant to take out the defenses, not innocent people.
In this report (http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,894708,00.html) by The Guardian, quote "only 6% of the munitions used against Iraq could be guided to a target. Over 94% were far less surgical during the 30-day air war, which often saw 400 sorties a day. Those bombs depended on gravity and variable winds, and were capable of causing collateral damage to nearby unarmed civilians. The global television audience was awed by Tomahawk cruise missiles roaring from the decks of US Navy warships at sea. But less than 10% hit their targets."

In an article (http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20030217-71671977.htm) by Washington Times, quote "A United Nations task force charged with coordinating the response of the U.N.&#39;s humanitarian agencies fears that up to 500,000 Iraqis could be killed or wounded, and fully 10 million of Iraq&#39;s 26 million people put at risk if there is a second Gulf war." Additional information by The Christian Science Monitor: A war&#39;s likely toll on Iraqis (http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0207/p02s02-usmi.html).

In one such strike (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-580673,00.html) by smart bombs in the first Gulf War (1991), "more than 400 people, mainly women, children and the elderly, burnt to death."

War is going to be terrible.

[Mr Clean]

Are you talking about Iraq or Saudi Arabia? Read Equality of women: Iraq puts US allies to shame

Women in Iraq do have it better. That has to do with a number of things, including the differences in the Sunni and Shi&#39;ite Muslim populations (the two major sects of Islam). Saddam wanted a modern country and because the government is non-religious in nature the laws and actions of Islam toward women are not really enforced. The Shi&#39;ite population in the south is treated very badly, regardless of gender.


Including this one, which estimated Iraqi civilian casualties of up to 35,000 and mentioned no Kuwaiti civilian casualties

Specifically it said anywhere from 100 to 35,000. That is a rather large range, the true answer lays somewhere in there but where is anyone&#39;s guess (and I&#39;d bet the 35,00 was the reported casualties from the Iraqi government...).

This link (http://www.historyguy.com/GulfWar.html) claims 2,300 civilian casulties, as an example...


There are no substantiated reports that Saddam was behind 9-11. In fact, this transcript from CNN&#39;s Crossfire in a conversation with Begala, Novak, and Richard Perle, clearly points out that there&#39;s no verifiable proof that Saddam is linked to Al Qaeda

Perle also said from that same interview: "We have intelligence reports that I believe are reliable. I think there are other indications of other meetings with other members of al Qaeda, including hijackers and intelligence officials from Iraq. ... I think the evidence is compelling."

Here (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29949) is an article and here (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29427) is another about Iraqi involvment with al Qaida AND the PLO...


In this report by The Guardian, etc etc etc

I have my doubts about this article. I am not disputing that smart munitions, including cruise missiles, didn&#39;t always hit their target. On a show I saw on the History Channel I believe they mentioned a majority of them did not work properly. The Gaurdian fails to cite a source for their numbers (incredibly poor journalism on their part) and they mention other things that are hard to believe.

One such claim: after a battle involving "8,400 soldiers of the US First Infantry Division - known as the Big Red One - had attacked an estimated 8,000 Iraqis with 3,000 Abrams main battle tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles, Humvees and armoured personnel carriers. " there were no dead laying around, and this was explained by a Guardian writer named Daniel: "Months later, Daniel and the world would learn why the dead had eluded eyewitnesses, cameras and video footage. Thousands of Iraqi soldiers, some of them firing their weapons from first world war-style trenches, had been buried by ploughs mounted on Abrams tanks. The tanks had flanked the lines so that tons of sand from the plough spoil had funnelled into the trenches. Just behind the tanks, straddling the trench line, came Bradleys pumping machine-gun bullets into Iraqi troops." and "Two other brigades used the same tank-mounted ploughs and Bradleys to obliterate an estimated 70 miles of defensive trenches."

70 MILES&#33; Let&#39;s say a tank&#39;s plow is about 20 feet across (an over-estimate to be sure because the tank is only 12 feet wide). To fill a ditch, you can&#39;t run alongside it, you have to push the material in, back away, and push material in next to the previous spot, etc. There are 5280 feet in one mile. 70 miles equals 369,600 feet. Divide by 30 feet and that means this would have to be done 12,320 times&#33;&#33;&#33; In a battle zone? Where the Iraqi&#39;s laid tens of thousands of mines?

There isn&#39;t any way this happened. Not a chance. They needed a quater mile to properly move through the area, and any history of the battle will show that no units stopped for any length of time to do this....

This isn&#39;t against you, Bones, this is my attempt to show how deceiving the Guardian article really is.

Quoting some of these articles can be tricky. An example, I found two articles from Asia Times Online, and this one (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EB15Ak03.html) completely contradicts this one (http://www.atimes.com/front/DD25Aa02.html)...and they are from the same place :rofl:



War is going to be terrible

It always is....

[TheUltimateWarrior]

I think Holland should support America in this case

I really hope they do&#33;

1 problem with this war thing. I have to write a goddamn school paper about it. About the role of Holland in this war :bandhead: I found alot of articles about it. Now i have to read them all, then write a paper. its 11.15 pm now. has to be finished tomorrow

I guess I will be up all night :bandhead:

[Mr Clean]

:lol: That sucks. By the time your done you may hate America, Iraq, and the U.N.&#33; :P

[TheUltimateWarrior]

Originally posted by Mr Clean@Feb 18 2003, 11:40 PM
:lol: That sucks. By the time your done you may hate America, Iraq, and the U.N.&#33; :P
I probably will&#33;

[Bones]

Specifically it said anywhere from 100 to 35,000. That is a rather large range, the true answer lays somewhere in there but where is anyone&#39;s guess (and I&#39;d bet the 35,00 was the reported casualties from the Iraqi government...).
Notice that I said "up to". The number 35,000 could be and probably is from Iraq. :) Nevertheless civilian casualties did occur and will occur.


Perle also said from that same interview: "We have intelligence reports that I believe are reliable. I think there are other indications of other meetings with other members of al Qaeda, including hijackers and intelligence officials from Iraq. ... I think the evidence is compelling."
I&#39;m only addressing Frag Junky&#39;s claims about 9/11. From the same transcript: "RICE (in a video excerpt): Do we know that he had a role in 9/11? No, we do not know that he had a role in 9/11."

Is Iraq linked to Al-Qaeda? That&#39;s anybody&#39;s guess right now. Until I see some proof I&#39;m not leaning either way. What about links in Saudi Arabia? Why are they not considered?


Perle also said from that same interview: "We have intelligence reports that I believe are reliable. I think there are other indications of other meetings with other members of al Qaeda, including hijackers and intelligence officials from Iraq. ... I think the evidence is compelling."
How reliable is that intelligence and why can&#39;t they reveal it to the public? I think too often this administration manipulates information for their political agenda. Or sometimes it&#39;s just wrong (http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/06/hamdani.extradition/).

The WorldNetDaily article cites sources by "members of the anti-Saddam Iraqi National Congress". How reliable is that? I&#39;m not convinced.


The Gaurdian fails to cite a source for their numbers (incredibly poor journalism on their part) and they mention other things that are hard to believe.
This article (http://www.brasscheck.com/yugoslavia/directory/50899a.html) quotes the same numbers. The source is from US Air Force.


This isn&#39;t against you, Bones, this is my attempt to show how deceiving the Guardian article really is.
I&#39;m not taking it personally, I am sure you all know that already. Don&#39;t believe the article? Find another one that counters it. I&#39;m quite sure that the Guardian wouldn&#39;t stake their reputation for such a wild claim.

This article from USMC (http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/main5/6E42994A3538782D85256CA500221363?opendocument) confirms the existence of ACEs. Quoting Army Colonel Anthony Moreno, who commanded the lead brigade during the 1st Mech&#39;s assault: "What you saw was a bunch of buried trenches with people&#39;s arms and legs sticking out of them. For all I know, we could have killed thousands." If you want more info search for "Armored Combat Earth movers iraq".

Of course The Asia Times articles contradict. One is from the "Ministry of Information" perspective. The other one is Shi&#39;ite.

BTW I like that "If you ain&#39;t Muslim, you ain&#39;t Shi&#39;ite".

[Bones]

This thread is getting kind of heavy. Here&#39;s a reliable report from The Onion (http://www.theonion.com/onion3906/iraq_kentucky_vie.html). :shifty:

[SASQUATCH]

Will someone close this thread. . . . :bandhead:

Doh&#33;

[Bones]

Originally posted by SASQUATCH@Feb 18 2003, 04:09 PM
Will someone close this thread. . . . :bandhead:

Doh&#33;
Why? Mr. Clean and I are having a good discussion.

:thumbs: to Mr. Clean&#33;

[Phoenix]

wow....bones and clean had a nice second round. Now they need to lick their wounds and regroup.
Round 3 anyone?

[Mr Clean]

Originally posted by Bones+Feb 18 2003, 06:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bones @ Feb 18 2003, 06:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--SASQUATCH@Feb 18 2003, 04:09 PM
Will someone close this thread. . . .&nbsp; :bandhead:

Doh&#33;
Why? Mr. Clean and I are having a good discussion.

:thumbs: to Mr. Clean&#33; [/b][/quote]
You kniw it Bones&#33;

I will reply tomorrow. I gotta go to bed soon....

[Frag Junky]

Never said Iraq had anything to do with the 9-11 attack, only pointing out that Bush declared that he would go after Terrorism no matter where they were. The 9-11 is the straw that broke the camels back and set the war on Terrorism in high gear. Now he is going after the next target.

I got to admit some of you have some very good points. We could argue the right and wrong of this for days, and my comments were not to offend any one. They are only my thoughts.

As it was mentioned, this thread is getting old, but it is on the minds of people through out the entire world. I only have one last comment, and I will let it go. I am proud to be from a country that allows freedom of speech and religion.

As Forrest Gump would say " And that is all I have to say on that"

[ME BIGGD01]

YES ITS FOR OIL WHICH WE COUD OF TAKEN IN 91 BUT WE DIDNT NEED THEN BUT WE NEED IT NOW RIGHT?

I DELETED WHAT I ORIGINALY SAID FOR THE RULES AT THIS FORUM.

[Elessar]

anyone trying to say this war is over oil
just says so because they have a strong dislike for george bush.
many liberals tro to make him out as a war monger
that is simply not the case.
Bush just goes around slaughtering his own people in the droves
But saddam??? Why would we go after saddam?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;
the hell has he ever done?? :WTF:
he&#39;s not a threat at all&#33; :bandhead:

Remember, u dont hear the noise from the people that agree with bush
you only hear it from the whinners who dont
dont think there is no one out there who stands behind america and its elected president
America isnt full of anti americans like some would have you think
their are more people out there who agree with bush on this issue then the later Poll (http://gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030211.asp)

And the people who believe most that this war is a valid war are the americans who once lived in iraq
does that not tell people something? :WTF:

[Mr Clean]

Notice that I said "up to". The number 35,000 could be and probably is from Iraq.&nbsp; Nevertheless civilian casualties did occur and will occur

I just wanted people to see the full range given....if I had said the estimates were as little as 100 civilian casualties without giving 35,000 as the upper number, that would appear skewed toward the smaller number, IMO.

But yes, civilian casualties will occur. How can they not when Saddam parks his own people around missile factories or puts AA guns on top of houses?


I&#39;m only addressing Frag Junky&#39;s claims about 9/11. From the same transcript: "RICE (in a video excerpt): Do we know that he had a role in 9/11? No, we do not know that he had a role in 9/11."

Is Iraq linked to Al-Qaeda? That&#39;s anybody&#39;s guess right now. Until I see some proof I&#39;m not leaning either way. What about links in Saudi Arabia? Why are they not considered?

I believe Miss Rice said that several weeks earlier, though, than the CNN Crossfire interview.

The difference is in the governments. The Saudis have helped us find the funding sources and the connections between individuals (although not to the best of their abilities, I believe. I don&#39;t completely trust the Saudis.), the Iraqis have openly supported, funded, and even trained al Qaida members. Plenty of Saudi citizens were involved, but the whole Iraqi government was involved. That&#39;s the difference.


How reliable is that intelligence and why can&#39;t they reveal it to the public? I think too often this administration manipulates information for their political agenda. Or sometimes it&#39;s just wrong

I&#39;m not going to get into the dangers of revealing sources of top secret info, especially in the spy game. I&#39;m sure you know full well why that is a dangerous proposition at best. I&#39;m sure EVERY administration manipulates information. You don&#39;t think the Iraqis don&#39;t do that too? The UN? The anti-war crowd?

As far as that link goes, I don&#39;t see how reacting to a tip that some terrorists have crept over the border is manipulating info. So it was wrong, it&#39;s better to treat it as real than to assume that nothing is going to happen and then something does. That dude just plain lied apparently, maybe he needed a thrill. Who knows. I dare say most intelligence info is never so clear and precise. It has to be analyzed, verified, and put together with other pieces to form a picture. That guy&#39;s "tip" and gathered intelligence data are on opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of turnaround time, or useability immediately after it is received...


This article quotes the same numbers. The source is from US Air Force

That makes you better than the Guardian&#33; :P


This article from USMC confirms the existence of ACEs. Quoting Army Colonel Anthony Moreno, who commanded the lead brigade during the 1st Mech&#39;s assault: "What you saw was a bunch of buried trenches with people&#39;s arms and legs sticking out of them. For all I know, we could have killed thousands." If you want more info search for "Armored Combat Earth movers iraq".

Every single hit you get on that story, whether it&#39;s PFC Joe Queen, or the ACEs, etc reads almost EXACTLY the same. What does that tell you? One story was published. ONE&#33; They are copied with or without permission from the original. He mentions other journalists that saw this site and had their cameras taken from them and notes shredded and so forth. Where are their recounts? Why didn&#39;t they say something of this "outrage"? He&#39;s the only one? And then he doesn&#39;t cite sources in his article...

I don&#39;t know if the Guardian has a reputation or not, but this article is full or holes. I&#39;ve spotted them and I&#39;m just some schmuck having a discussion online. I&#39;m not even going to say if definitely didn&#39;t happen. If there are a bunch or corpses laying around you need to bury them before disease spreads....and flies in the desert breed and grow pretty damn fast in the desert because their timeframe is usually so small to breed, lay eggs, and the eggs to hatch and grow. And I like I said earlier, they were in a battle, not a lot of time to dig 6 foot deep holes and have memorial services for each one of them....

:thumbs:

[SASQUATCH]

Originally posted by Bones+Feb 18 2003, 07:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bones @ Feb 18 2003, 07:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--SASQUATCH@Feb 18 2003, 04:09 PM
Will someone close this thread. . . .&nbsp; :bandhead:

Doh&#33;
Why? Mr. Clean and I are having a good discussion.

:thumbs: to Mr. Clean&#33; [/b][/quote]
Wasn&#39;t talking to you my friend and I do like to hear more from you.

Some people are taking it to personal.

I find it very interesting to hear what people have to say but in a good way.


Keep it coming man. . . . :thumbs:

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by =DOA|MH=Ravenous@Feb 19 2003, 12:04 PM
anyone trying to say this war is over oil
just says so because they have a strong dislike for george bush.
many liberals tro to make him out as a war monger
that is simply not the case.
Bush just goes around slaughtering his own people in the droves
But saddam??? Why would we go after saddam?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;
the hell has he ever done?? :WTF:
he&#39;s not a threat at all&#33; :bandhead:

Remember, u dont hear the noise from the people that agree with bush
you only hear it from the whinners who dont
dont think there is no one out there who stands behind america and its elected president
America isnt full of anti americans like some would have you think
their are more people out there who agree with bush on this issue then the later Poll (http://gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030211.asp)

And the people who believe most that this war is a valid war are the americans who once lived in iraq
does that not tell people something? :WTF:
the people are not anti americans but the people dont want war

[Elessar]

i never said the everyone protesting against the war are anti americans......but i will say alot are.

[Bones]

Sorry guys, I&#39;ve been real busy recently and cannot contribute a lot to this thread.

Tomaz brought up a good point. Americans who are speaking up against the war are not necessarily anti-american, they might be patriotic because they care. People who accept everything at face value and do not question actions of the government are, in my opinion, less patriotic. If you have looked through all the issues and still find it necessary to go to war, I applaud you because you actually put thought into it before you arrived at the decision.

I&#39;m out, peace.

[Frag Junky]

Can&#39;t pass this one up when I seen it, so one more lats word

[Bones]

Originally posted by Frag Junky@Feb 21 2003, 11:48 PM
Can&#39;t pass this one up when I seen it, so one more lats [sic] word
I guess war to you is comedy.

This article (http://www.msnbc.com/news/876128.asp) from Newsweek is interesting.

I&#39;ll end with a nice quote from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr:


History will record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.

[ME BIGGD01]

:hmmm: bones the quote you mention [QUOTE]
History will record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people


do you know what he was referring to? :WTF:

[MR. SLiK]

Originally posted by Mr Clean@Feb 19 2003, 10:50 AM
the Iraqis have openly supported, funded, and even trained al Qaida members. Plenty of Saudi citizens were involved, but the whole Iraqi government was involved. That&#39;s the difference.

can you show some evidence of this. thanks.

[ME BIGGD01]

i will provide evidence regarding that statement. what kind of evidence will be sufficient so you believe it?

[MR. SLiK]

Originally posted by ME BIGGD01@Feb 26 2003, 12:00 PM
i will provide evidence regarding that statement. what kind of evidence will be sufficient so you believe it?
The way Bones has been conducting his arguments. I think he&#39;s doing it the right way, backing up his stuff.

[Stealth]

:hmmm:.... you guys are talking this too seriously...

you all need to chill-out and have a :drink:

cheers&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Mr Clean]

Originally posted by Bones+Feb 25 2003, 07:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bones @ Feb 25 2003, 07:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Frag Junky@Feb 21 2003, 11:48 PM
Can&#39;t pass this one up when I seen it, so one more lats [sic] word
I guess war to you is comedy.

This article (http://www.msnbc.com/news/876128.asp) from Newsweek is interesting.

I&#39;ll end with a nice quote from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr:


History will record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. [/b][/quote]
Interesting, because I saw a biography tonight on Saddam and they claimed that he did not destroy everything after the Gulf War (and that they kept technical info and blueprints and so forth)....


How is MLK quote relevant to this situation?

[Mr Clean]

Originally posted by MR. SLiK+Feb 26 2003, 01:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MR. SLiK @ Feb 26 2003, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Mr Clean@Feb 19 2003, 10:50 AM
the Iraqis have openly supported, funded, and even trained al Qaida members. Plenty of Saudi citizens were involved, but the whole Iraqi government was involved. That&#39;s the difference.

can you show some evidence of this. thanks. [/b][/quote]
Go to page 4 of this thread. I provided two links to back up my arguments. I did not re-list them in the post you quoted because I was responding to Bones and he already knew they were there on the previous page.

[Pure_Evil]

All I got to say is&#33;http://goodiesforu.com/animation/animatedgifs/flag/fireworks.gifhttp://goodiesforu.com/animation/animatedgifs/flag/USASmGRY.gifhttp://goodiesforu.com/animation/animatedgifs/flag/0097.gifhttp://goodiesforu.com/animation/animatedgifs/flag/state/connecticutWHT_rd31.gif

[Sirc]

Originally posted by Pure_Evil@Feb 27 2003, 10:00 PM
All I got to say is&#33;http://goodiesforu.com/animation/animatedgifs/flag/fireworks.gifhttp://goodiesforu.com/animation/animatedgifs/flag/USASmGRY.gifhttp://goodiesforu.com/animation/animatedgifs/flag/0097.gifhttp://goodiesforu.com/animation/animatedgifs/flag/state/connecticutWHT_rd31.gif
I agree with that comment wholeheartedly. :wootrock: :wootrock: :wootrock:

[S.A.S]

After fighting 7 hard months back in 91/92 and actually observing saddam for 3 whole weeks (even going for groceries )then getting the order not to go further ...i was personaly devastated .This man needs eliminating for good this time.I saw first hand what he is capable of doing to his own people and most of all what he is capable of doing to his neighbours I;E kuwait&#39;ys & kurds this man will stop at nothing.what kind of man sends kids to the front line while he and his officers sit in marble floored oak pillared underground luxury appartments.and yes he did..come on un give us the nod and give his nieghbours and us a little bit of hope by destroying his bully boy constitution....aghhhh been wanting to say something for ages..there&#39;s my view (a veterens view) :thumbs:

[(Villains)****Death Sentence****]

Originally posted by Pure_Evil@Feb 28 2003, 03:00 AM
All I got to say is&#33;http://goodiesforu.com/animation/animatedgifs/flag/fireworks.gifhttp://goodiesforu.com/animation/animatedgifs/flag/USASmGRY.gifhttp://goodiesforu.com/animation/animatedgifs/flag/0097.gifhttp://goodiesforu.com/animation/animatedgifs/flag/state/connecticutWHT_rd31.gif
I&#39;m Italian but i agree with all of you&#33; :thumbs:

:wootrock: so go on Saddam&#39;s house and Kick his A.... :wootrock: :wootrock:

[Mr Clean]

Originally posted by S.A.S@Feb 28 2003, 03:44 AM
After fighting 7 hard months back in 91/92 and actually observing saddam for 3 whole weeks (even going for groceries )then getting the order not to go further ...i was personaly devastated .This man needs eliminating for good this time.I saw first hand what he is capable of doing to his own people and most of all what he is capable of doing to his neighbours I;E kuwait&#39;ys & kurds this man will stop at nothing.what kind of man sends kids to the front line while he and his officers sit in marble floored oak pillared underground luxury appartments.and yes he did..come on un give us the nod and give his nieghbours and us a little bit of hope by destroying his bully boy constitution....aghhhh been wanting to say something for ages..there&#39;s my view (a veterens view) :thumbs:
Then I say thank you for your service to America&#33;

God Bless the vets&#33;

[S.A.S]

:thumbs: Yes thankyou and may i add to my country too (Great Britain) ;)