Gov. Sapoenaing Search Engines

[Caged Anger]

I am staunchly against this type of government move. More and more we are sacrificing the freedoms that make America the shining light its supposed to be to other nations. I realize that after the 9/11 atttacks, security came ot the forefront of the public's interest, but I don't believe the public is being fully informed as to just how far the government is going.

The way I believe one is supposed to judge the validity of removing a personal freedom is whether or not the benefits will outweigh the negative effects. The government does not seem to be forthcoming in informing us of terror plots foiled, except for a few here and there. Unless I should see overwelming evidence that they are nabbing terror suspects and foiling plots, I will not abide my rights being taken away.

The government should not have access to our search records, our personal computers, or our library records without a warent signed by a judge for valid reasons. The president should not be allowed invade our privacy without either our explicit permission or a court order :thumbs:

(This is a no flame thread, opinions are welcomed, no attacks please as I am honestly interested in what peeps have to say):cool:

[BobtheCkroach]

I voted no, but I'd also like to clarify my answer.

I cannot vote yes without knowing that the government's intentions are honest and sincere (which obviously I can't possibly know). If their intentions are really to pick off the scum that are looking at kiddie porn, and talking about blowing up buildings and shooting the president and whatever else, I would be behind this 100%. And with all my heart, I want to believe that's what this is...but I just can't.

I guess ultimately, I want know what the gov. is subpeoning for? Are they just asking for search results? Do they just want to see that Oh! 500,000,000,000 searches for Doom 3 popped up last year and oh look! 3.5 billion for naked teens? If that's all they want, so they know what illegal crimes to focus their attention at, then I guess I'm OK with it.

If they're trying to get a list of 3.5 billion hits for naked teens

first ip to search it, second, etc.

in an attempt to go after people, that might be going too far. If I knew it was *only* going to be used for busting the bad guys, I could probably support it. If I knew that the gov't was going "alright google, your records say a lot of people searched for doom3 - fine. But we want the ips of all those searching for naked teens", I could probably be OK with that, maybe.

But what I think will happen is this: phone rings. "Hello?" "Hello, Mr. Lerch? I'm from the office of Hillary Clinton. We see that searches came out of your house related to Doom 3 and Quake 4, both of which are mature rated games with graphic content. We're also aware that you have children. Are you aware of the demoralizing and corruptive nature of the content that you're bringing into your household?" and so on. That's a bunch of crap.

I'm all for getting the bad guys. Put the perverts and the terrorists away, and use whatever means necessary. But I can see this thing being abused in a hurry, and i know it will be.

Also, the question that both caged & I want to know is...WHY does google keep exact data like this logged for so long?

I guess as far as considering this a "freedom", I really don't. I'm fairly laid back on the whole wiretapping (and now) google thing as a freedom. If a cop overheard me saying I was gonna blow up some building, I could be arrested for conspiracy, or whatever. No one would bat an eye. I personally don't see the difference if it's done using wiretap or search results. The misabuse is what I'm afraid of.

If the gov't wants to watch my search records every day from now til the day I die, and they discard all the innocent searches, fine by me. If they want to know that I've got an undying passion for college basketball, gaming, and a bunch of other stuff, they can. What I have a problem with is when the information becomes public somehow and I'm getting harrassed because of it.

That's my 2 sense - I'm sure I'm in the very very very miniscule minority.

[Pure_Evil]

I'm sure Google keeps it for strctly marketting, after all, it's all about cash!

As far as I'm concerned, there are a lot of other areas the government should be focussing their money and time on, like our ports and borders. Keeping track of all those with student visa's and such.

Little by little, we're losing our freadom to the people who are supposed to represent us :mad:

[ME BIGGD01]

I think the Govenment should mind its business. Their priorities are f'd up. If they are so concerned about kiddy porn, they should make stronger laws that actually make a difference. They are so full of crap if you ask me. Google will cave and give up the info. The government will soon find out that most of GM members whack off to porn 3 times a day.

[Pure_Evil]

I'm down to every other day :D

[MassacreAL]

hmm im not from USA, but in my opinion, its bad :down:

when i was younger i wanted to move to usa, but now i doubt about it. for exemple i got very angry when i read in newspapper something like "some american politicians thinks that theory of world create by god should be teached in schools along with darwins theory". OMG, how is that possible?? :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: well, i respect their trust but i really wouldnt be happy if they teach crap like this to my children

[FUS1ON]

hmm im not from USA, but in my opinion, its bad :down:

when i was younger i wanted to move to usa, but now i doubt about it. for exemple i got very angry when i read in newspapper something like "some american politicians thinks that theory of world create by god should be teached in schools along with darwins theory". OMG, how is that possible?? :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: well, i respect their trust but i really wouldnt be happy if they teach crap like this to my children

Just so we are clear on this, which is the crap?

[Pure_Evil]

Just so we are clear on this, which is the crap?
the American government? :D

[MassacreAL]

Just so we are clear on this, which is the crap?
i mean that world has been created by god. do you believe in it? if yes, we can talk about it, if no, i wont waste my time with explaining

[FUS1ON]

Pure the A in American is ALWAYS capitalized. ;)

Mass neither theory is crap is what I was getting at, people are entitled to their opinion .... even if it is wrong.

[EXEcution]

I don't think it matters how the world was created. The fact that I live in it and can appreicate my life for what it is with or without beliveing in God is all I need.

[Pure_Evil]

Pure the A in American is ALWAYS capitalized. ;)

Mass neither theory is crap is what I was getting at, people are entitled to their opinion .... even if it is wrong.
kind of ironic in a way if you think about that total statement ;)

[EXEcution]

Well fact and opinion are two different things. It is proper grammar to spell American with a capital 'A'. In this case your facts are wrong not your opinion because you cannot debate the English language. :D

[MassacreAL]

yes you both are very true, and maybe we should stop this thread. there is nothing more to say :rolleyes:

but i sometimes get angry when i hear about religion. and its not only religion. also anti-nuclear-power-plants activists makes me (mostly) angry. maybe one year ago i was laughing when one a-n-p-p activist has been runned over by train, which was trasporting nuclear fuel. he died, yes, its not funny, but he was incredibly dumb. he refused to run away before fastly running train. maybe he didnt know that heavy train cant stop in 10 metres, lol.

[EXEcution]

yes you both are very true, and maybe we should stop this thread. there is nothing more to say :rolleyes:

but i sometimes get angry when i hear about religion. and its not only religion. also anti-nuclear-power-plants activists makes me (mostly) angry. maybe one year ago i was laughing when one a-n-p-p activist has been runned over by train, which was trasporting nuclear fuel. he died, yes, its not funny, but he was incredibly dumb. he refused to run away before fastly running train. maybe he didnt know that heavy train cant stop in 10 metres, lol.
Well people are obviouslt more concerned about their health and/or safety than a cheaper power source. Nuclear power is cheap, but the waste it produces is NOT cheap or easy to get rid of.

[FUS1ON]

Exe explained it perfectly so PE just admit you messed up. :P

Mass maybe you should stop bringing other subjects into threads, this thread WAS about the privacy of American (notice the A) citizens being invaded, you brought up religion, now you are are bringing up your opinion on nuclear power.

[EXEcution]

Well since it all ties in to the government I see it as being legit thread material.
Anyway I am against this if it has to do with me, but if it really does help to prevent terrorism by allowing the government to see who searches for "How to make a bomb and get it into the States"... But there are too many variables they would have to keep track of before actually nabbing a suspected terrorist.

[MassacreAL]

these topics (religion and nuclear stuff) is not good for single topics. no one would response. but ok, you are admin here, im stopping bringing next topics in here.

[MassacreAL]

Well since it all ties in to the government I see it as being legit thread material.
Anyway I am against this if it has to do with me, but if it really does help to prevent terrorism by allowing the government to see who searches for "How to make a bomb and get it into the States"... But there are too many variables they would have to keep track of before actually nabbing a suspected terrorist.
heh thats good point, i really doubt al kaida is finding how to make bombs at google :rofl:

and btw, what can US gov do against non-usa ip adresses?? nothing. so they are protecting america against america?

[JIMINATOR]

I am all for the government being able to google people that google certain websites, er, as long as their list does not include me....

[JIMINATOR]

and btw, what can US gov do against non-usa ip adresses?? nothing. so they are protecting america against america?
eh, just google bomb making kits, twin towers, air plane piloting, anthrax, etc. You just might get a surprise visit to america! Or to cuba! Who knows what the heck they would do with the data? Assign 10000 programmers to crunch the data, and they will probably get a whole bunch of hits on porno freaks, and maybe a few on bomb makers....

[Caged Anger]

My hopes is that they go after the websites and not the people looking.
Its quite simple, avoid a public riot by not invading people's privacy but by taking down the websites promoting the illegal acts. Its like cutting off the head of a snake, the rest fo the body falls limp.

I'm sure at some point or another everyone has googled some things that would be "unacceptable", but a few random hits on odd sites...it could ruin respectable lives of hard working individuals.

[Slice]

Pure the A in American is ALWAYS capitalized. ;)

Mass neither theory is crap is what I was getting at, people are entitled to their opinion .... even if it is wrong.

How can an opinion be wrong?

[EXEcution]

How can an opinion be wrong?
My opinion is that your opinion is wrong.

[Seriously Deadly]

But what I think will happen is this: phone rings. "Hello?" "Hello, Mr. Lerch? I'm from the office of Hillary Clinton. We see that searches came out of your house related to Doom 3 and Quake 4, both of which are mature rated games with graphic content. We're also aware that you have children. Are you aware of the demoralizing and corruptive nature of the content that you're bringing into your household?" and so on. That's a bunch of crap.

rofl. is that what you truely think?

[BobtheCkroach]

rofl. is that what you truely think?

Not that exact scenario, necessarily, no. But some kind of blatant abuse that's more about pushing one's agenda and less about the actual law.

[Seriously Deadly]

well i guess i understand that [ i was being silly if u thought i was serious ]

[BobtheCkroach]

well i guess i understand that [ i was being silly if u thought i was serious ]

I thought you were being serious...ly deadly :P

Oh, caffeine and early hours do crazy things to a guy (like make stupid comments & hijack threads :P:P:P)

[Seriously Deadly]

lol

[Caged Anger]

no worries guys, i got the results i was looking for so Hijack away :)

[FUS1ON]

During the first few days when this story was playing out on TV, while at the gym I saw a news report and I wish could remember the exact details now but it said something like 'twice before the President has enacted power to go beyond the norm looking for enemies against the country/government'. It wasn't those exact words, but that's as close as I can recall and I believe the two Presidents were Truman and Lincoln.

I realize we live in a different time than back then where a person's personal information is much more readily available, but just wanted you to be aware this is not the first time this has happened.

I've tried to find the details on the .net, but haven't been able to. Maybe one of you will have better luck than I did.