illegal immigrants

[JIMINATOR]

there has been a lot of discussion on this topic, or maybe not
the theory is that they are taking away jobs from the American people,
because they work for less money, etc.

Well, look at the alternatives. People want to pay less for everything.
It's just the fact. If $50, $100 or more can be saved for about the
same quality, we are good with that. A business can certainly do standard
hiring and pay full wages (@ 1.5X to 3X the cost). They can't eat all the
costs however. But then it becomes an issue for the customers, which will
choose other businesses that cost less. Take away the illegals and what
do you have? More business that pay full wages? No, instead of importing
JOBs from other countries, now big box marketers will import entire
INDUSTRIES from other countries, ie, China. Think of how many shoe and
clothing and other type of manufacturers have shut down and moved all their
operations to Asia. Wouldn't it be better to have all those industries
here, but employing illegal immigrants?

Certainly it is not ideal, but there are lots of supporting industries that
would not have just died.

What if GM shifted their plants to use all illegal immigrants? Well, that
would suck, but with the unions each employee costs some $130000 a year,
and a whole lot of that gets added to the sticker price. I have to think
that would be better than closing plants which decimates entire regions
of supporting industries.

Businesses have to make money. That is the reality. If you own stock, you
want it to appreciate in value. Expecting a business to be a charitable
organization AND make money is not realistic.

So which is the lesser of two evils, importing jobs? or importing entire
industries?

[ME BIGGD01]

Well I have no problems with immigrants working at all but it's the illegals that are hurting America. The way I see it, they are able to work so cheap because they are not paying any taxes on earned money. This also allows the company that hires them not to pay taxes. It is completely illegal. Ok that's one problem but as the illegals become legal they are now able to get sevices that we the tax payers could not get but have to pay for them. There is no doubt that after having children and working at a minimum wage they will not need assistance.

The second part I think is that this also allows thr companies to hire people at lower rates which ofcourse makes the company more moeny but also makes it harder for the middle class American to be able to feed his family and pay there bills. The problem is mainly the health insurance and benifit packages in this country that are way too expensive for small companies tp pay for. Big companies bitch about having to pay for unions and employee benefits but they are still making enough money to continue. They may not be making as much profit but they are still making profit. Americans deserve all of these things. We work very hard for our money but the wages are not going up. The taxes, and utilities continue to rise along with healthcare and insurance to a point where there is only going to be rich and poor. For the average middle class American, I can only see things getting worst as they have to try to keep end meeting at the end of the month which will cause more divorces and disfunctional familes. As it is now, usually in a middle class home, both parties have to work which takes less attention away from family. America is losing its values at home or maybe they are gone already.

Education is another problem. As it is now, our schools are over filled and not enough teachers. We continue to let people in that speak no english and use our system. I think it's bad enough that our children are not getting the ducation they should in such a country like America. We are losing our values and selling out. Our kids should be the smartest in the world yet they are passed through school like its's just a job. College is going to get more expensive also as most middle class families will have to take out 2nd or 3rd mortgages to put their children in them. If the illegals are made legal, they become minorities and are offered grants to where the middle class guy has to pay for his children and theirs.

I get disgusted when I hear the Republicans and Democrats say these people do the hard jobs that Americans wont do. I find that to be insulting and misleading. They are right in away but the comment deservbes to cleared up. First, American will do any job as long as they are given the respect and wage that meets the job. Sure it seems easy for someone who does not pay any taxes at all and keeps the entire paycheck but for those that would be forced to work with low wages and pay taxes on top, people would lose there houses and starve. The job market has to meet the cost of living which is constantly ignored as our politicians feed of the middle class. I find it ironic that congress has seperate rules that only apply to them but decide whats good for us. What not put minumum wage as their salaries and see how they live if they expect average Americans to live off them.

I see America failing as we contune down this road. A 2nd depression is in the future and a civil war will be needed to fix what our Gov't F'd up. By hearing these words, most Americans may think that is far fetched but in reality that is the problem as every issue gets ignored. Eventually it will collapse.

We need to close all borders, pause foreign aid pause work visa until America fixes it's own problems in its own Country. Every citizen of this Country deserves the very best of everything starting with Education, housing, employment, healthcare. Until these things are fixed, we need to only think of ourself. I am a bit more realistic and never seeing it happen considering both parties agendas that run the country. With that, we are F'd in the long term.

[JIMINATOR]

Don't get carried away about the tax thing. Although they do not pay federal and state taxes these are likely to be minor for the amount of money they earn. They do however pay sales taxes for anything and everything they buy. Some money may go to other countries, but that is probably minor considering what industries are sending to china.

The "still making enough money to continue" isn't really a valid argument. Many factories and plants are being shut down because it is cheaper to manufacture goods overseas. Take a look at Wal-Mart. The company is huge and getting bigger. They are opening huge stores everywhere. When they open up in a market, they essentially decimate many of the smaller similar type stores in that market. Do people care? No, they go and shop there anyway. Where do the Wal-Mart goods come from? US Manufacturers? No. They are too expensive. Instead they use overseas manufacturers. Yes, every dollar you spend in Wal-Mart is a chunk of money that is going overseas. Do people complain about wal-mart? No, they like the cheap prices, so what about the small businesses and industries that it kills in the country. Where is the outrage? Are they just smart business men?

Education? How many people would mind doubling your property tax bill ever month so their kids could have a better education? Really that is what it would take. Private schools are always available (and expensive, and the parents that use them are essentially paying for education twice). Teaching is a crappy low paying job that involves managing a whole bunch of difficult kids AND parents. Schools get money based on property value, people buy houses based on schools. That means that crappy schools just get worse and worse. There are a whole bunch of issues all wrapped up into that.

I'm also not sure about where this whole minority/grant thing comes from. Grants are available to everyone. Georgia has the hope scholarship which will fund education after high school for people that maintain a B average. That is the low income people funding college education with lottery tickets. There are always going to be abusers of any type of charitable system, but you have that today with welfare mothers and so forth.

Americans don't care to give anyone the respect and wages they deserve. This is an issue with the consumer. People want to pay low prices, industries have to find ways to lower their costs so they can lower their prices, wages go down, people lose jobs, industries close, people have less money to spend. It is a vicious cycle. There are no easy answers here. Illegals are only a small piece of this puzzle. The American consumers are the real problem. I think all of the focus and attacks on the illegals are misguided.

[ME BIGGD01]

I guess it is different in every state. I can only speak of NY. This is a very complex argument. There are so many things to discuss yet the whole thing is a mess.

As far as Walmart goes I agree but it does not stop there. Every store sells product made in China. I laugh at my wife the times my wife goes to Pier1 Imports and buys stuff there. If you have ever gone into one (not sure if they are in your neck or anywhere else) but it is styled very nicely and really looks expensive. Actually it is very expensive but the products are made in China. Very low quality stuff that people like my wife fall into the dress up or image layed uponn them and pays the 100000% difference. My wife the impulse shopper (can not tell you how many times she has ran the credit cards up over 10000 in the soon to be 7 years we've been married:bawling: ) that she is is one of those people that think it is better if you pay more. Regardless, there are so many areas this can be discussed but bottom line it does come down to the American consumer which just pays for it and therfore makes the companies able to charge more. Nothing like buying a 16 oz water for a buck 50. Yet people are paying for it.

Ok back to illegal immigrants. I know first hand that these people work hard. I know some personally and have discussed how they got here. One young guy I spoke to left his familty because there was no work. He has to pay somebody 15,000 to be brought here. Not sure how it works out but most don't just walk over the border as they say. Many of them have to leave their country to support their family. I feel bad for them for that but in reality it defeats the purpose of America. They will never be dedicated Americans or respect this country. Yes I agree there are Americans now that don't respect this country but adding more to the fire will only make us even more weaker. The thing is if you asked anyone of these people where they would rather be, they would say their country. It is sad they only left so they can provide for their family but no matter what, this is illegal and they are all over NY.

Eduction? Property Taxes? Again, I can only speak about NY. Actually where I live and Dan2 should be able to agree, our taxes on L.I. are average 7-12,000. I live on North Shore and our property taxes are 9000. The teachers here make great money. My brothers wife is a teacher and Makes over 100,000 in plainview School. To me I find that a burden on tax payers. What's worst is the kids are still not getting the best education paying all this. I am not saying that it's all the schools part either about education as things should be pushed at home. Like my 3 year old Jenna, I push education with her even at an early age. She knows her alphabet and can count to 20. She also speaks some Italian. I guess I am just annoyed that we over pay and get nothing in return.

I myself do make rules that I preach and follow. I will always buy an American car. I support and shop at local shops to try to keep them in business (although my long time mechanic closed his shop:bawling: ) and live by what goes around comes around which would make me return the extra dollar if given to me at the register. I try to support my country to the best. If it does this country harm I want it eliminated. If it makes this country stronger, I am all for it. I will always support an American worker over anything else regadless it he/she has become tired of their job.

If it was up to me, I would be supporting manufacturing in my own country. I know that would be too expensive but I would prefer that it gets done atleast on our continent. Why not have Mexico, Equador or all thecountries where the illegals are coming from to work and put the jobs there instead of a commmunist country which will eventually crush us and surpass us. I believe it comes doen to greed of corporate america which is the root of all problems in our country. They have no morals and will sell us out no mstter what.

[FUS1ON]

I do not need to type up book to post my opinion on this subject. When it comes to illegal aliens/immigrants/whatever name is PC this week ... they need to ship their asses back to where they hell they came from and as for their rights well F that, if you are here illegally and you are not a US citizen then you have no rights and need to get the hell out.

[JIMINATOR]

corporate america is greedy, but who owns corporate america? the answer is
ourselves. If companies do not increase revenue on a yearly basis, then investors will pull their money out and put it elsewhere. that makes the stocks drop. So the CEOs are under tremendous pressure to perform. People have gotten used to a 10% or 15% ROI. So that has to come either through growth or cost cutting. It is the american way, to rob peter to pay paul. Now many people may not own any stocks, but the same applies for 401k funds and the various asset allocation schemes and so forth that these funds use.

[Die Hard]

Get used to it. Globalisation is but a step away....

[MassacreAL]

your goverments should close borders for illegal immigrants, open borders for legal immigrants and especialy make studying in american schools more avaible for foreing students. many of them are gifted and they are prolly not going to leave america so nearly. i know its very incomplete opinion and solution, but im not going to think about more.

if USA will seal its borders, it will be end of democratic america. in europe is no case of country which sealed its bothers, but its very near case to comunistic europe in second half of 20th century, and china in fifties. comunistic goverment, after votes(last votes, if you dont know) had set up everything ideal, industry working, prices and everything exactly calculated and stuff, and everything should been great and working, but we all know what happened. thats the reason why i think Biggs opinion really isnt correct. america cant "heal" itself. america need more flexible system of industry and everything. make system more modern. or maybe you can try to do it in better way than everywhere else in the world.

[NightBreed]

Just had to add this..
Here's a quote I found on one of the HD sites I'm on..




"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."




Theodore Roosevelt 1907


:thumbs:

By the way, I didn't check out the authenticity of this passage but don't really care because I like what it says.

[FUS1ON]

Me too Nightbreed. It seems like some want to come here and change America to fit their lifestyle and I have a major problems with that.

[NastyDawg]

I do not need to type up book to post my opinion on this subject. When it comes to illegal aliens/immigrants/whatever name is PC this week ... they need to ship their asses back to where they hell they came from and as for their rights well F that, if you are here illegally and you are not a US citizen then you have no rights and need to get the hell out.

Ditto to that!

[JIMINATOR]

uh, yeah. I guess it would be better if instead of coming here and working for us, they instead stole our land, massacred some of the people, forcibly relocated others and attempted to kill the rest with disease bearing blankets. surely you guys must approve of that immigration policy, after all, it worked for the us government. :thumbs: I see nothing but hypocrisy in the term "illegal alien"

[FUS1ON]

I wondered when someone was going to play that card.

[T I K]

We the people (unfortunately) can not change our govt's or business leaders past/present hypocrisy's ! And to me this is just a large part of the bigger problem !!

But we have laws for immigrants to abide by to come here to live,work,or learn and to pay taxes (Fed,State,Sales) as a US citizen (when they legally sought to become a US citizen), just like "EVERY" other US citizen/family here! By upholding and making immigrants and our own Govt honor USA's present immigration laws. That is, if you come into this country illegally or are staying here illegally then you are breaking USA laws, and are here illegally, go home !! If you want to come here and stay, do it legally !!

All US citizens here, except for Native Americans are immigrants ! But even so, my family came here for some of the same reasons, plus others, but did so legally !! And even assimilated into its melting pot by learning and speaking and writing its predominant English speaking language !!

And IMO the present is not so unlike the past. Business/Corporate greed has always been present and exploited not only its own people but also our own Govt (by business owners/lobbyists) and the people and Govt's of other countries as well!

That Corps/owners greed will always exist. But with laws (that are made and enforced) that will level the playing field such as US Corporations that move their manufacturing plants and offices to other countries to not only pay less wages but also because of present offshore corp laws pay less US Corp tax to the US treasury! And they also dont have to abide by US laws of worker safety or US EPA safety standards!

To me is not just about Immigrants its about the ideals and principals and laws this Country was founded on (not manipulated too) that is the much bigger picture!! What in imo, what is right and necessary not only for the survival of the United States of America, but also for what we once, as a Country and as a people, once valued and held dear !!

IMO we need to take down the "The Unites States is For Sale" and the "United States Govt is For Sale" signs !! As an example as an American it appalls me that other Countries such as China can come here and buy land/property etc., yet if you go to their Country you cant own or purchase their land and property !!

We need to hold our Govt and its elected Representatives responsible !! We need to make our Govt. and its Corporations understand the difference between what is right, and what is wrong and enforce, equitable laws, values and standards through out it !!

[SHOTGUNmaniac]

We tend to get the majority of immigrants in the uk, as other countrys turn them away... And it is very very annoying, They come over claiming state benefit straight away... Where as a person living in the uk all there life, who has worked all there life, gets told they are ineligible for state benefits...

If only our country could turn around and say **** off,

[SHOTGUNmaniac]

Ditto to that!

Originally Posted by Shogun
I do not need to type up book to post my opinion on this subject. When it comes to illegal aliens/immigrants/whatever name is PC this week ... they need to ship their asses back to where they hell they came from and as for their rights well F that, if you are here illegally and you are not a US citizen then you have no rights and need to get the hell out.


I defo second that post, remove the US, and add UK...

[Dangerous Dan]

illegal immigration is such a nasty word. it completely ignores history and the valuable contributions from immigrants from all over the world in building the United States. when you speak about "illegal" immigrants you speak of a history of supported racism. Why do you think the majority of Americans are of european ancestry? the answer is that through hundreds of years of discriminatory immigration law the population is as it is now. Thus quotas were set upon existing ethnic propotions and limited to maintain those proportions. Where did these proportions come from? Like I said before, they are the result of racially driven historical processes.

A prime example of how there is nothing natural about the United States "racial" make-up can be seen in how immigration quotas created in the late 1880 excuded certain groups. (as an example)Asian migration was deeply suppressed and even entirely eleminated through acts like the 1882 "Chinese Exclusion Act," which prevented any and all Chinese immigration to the United States, and the "Naturalization Act" of 1870 which limited citizenship to "white persons and persons of african decent." Consequently, the Chinese labourers already in the United States could not send for their wives, meaning that the population was largely a bachelor society unable to sustain itself. Therefore, when these restrictions were finally lifted in the 20th century, when using the Chinese-American population to calculate Chinese immigration quotas, the number of immigrants remained just as proportionately small, and continued to me a minority in Amercian life. (as we all know, these quota systems were changed around 1965, but it doesn't change their impacts on the make-up of the United States)

Thus in response to people coming here and changing everything, the only reason things are as they are is because of a shameful history of racism and exclusiuon. Thus to agree with a certain "natural" or "established" north amercian lifestyle is to let this history's legacy live into the present.

[SHOTGUNmaniac]

Dan, This site is not just full of "Americans", there are people from all over the globe... Uk, Poland, Germany, France, Switzerland, Just to name a few...

Look into the problems that other countries have with regards to this.... And you will find shocking results....

The government of the uk says it has no funds to look after its own, Yet they can spare 100's of pounds for each one of them that comes over here...

[Dangerous Dan]

I'm not talking about immigration problems around the globe though, I'm talking specifically about the US in my post. and as far as I'm concerned, there are huge differences in history between europe and north america. my post is not about the money, but rather about the cultural makeup of the US and the historical processes responsible. yes, they share financial problems associated with immigration, but what they all don't share is the same history that has allowed the marginalization and exclusion of certain cultres becuase they are viewed as undeserving foreign cultures in need of complete and utter assimilation (yes, there are similarities, but i'm talking about specifics, there's too much history to include it all)

[T I K]

Why is illegal immigrant such a nasty word ?? Its not "nasty" it is merely stating a fact if it applies to you, or to those that are known as this phenomena that was/is undertaken by illegal entry or endorsed and or even in the earliest days of the US founding/beginning, was even exploited for gaining many of its workers/slaves !!

But most Immigrants came here by choice, and came legally! There may have been "quota's" but that is not to be unexpected !! We as a Sovereign Nation can not allow the borders to be freely open to any and all that would just simply wish to come here for any reason. Just as we can not allow our own public assistance programs/schooling etc to be over run and bankrupted at the expense of non citizens who pay no taxes that support those same assistance programs etc that they so readily expect, rely upon and seem to expect and demand !!

[Dangerous Dan]

yeah, but historical quotas based on racial prefernce are what I am getting at, which regardless of how you spin it are in no way just. i agree there needs to be certain doors and walls, but I'm simply saying that you can't live in the present without understanding the past when looking at these issues. my comment was mostly directed towards nativist attitudes, not making liquid borders.

[FUS1ON]

Well good, we will send them to Canada and you guys can support them.

[SHOTGUNmaniac]

Well good, we will send them to Canada and you guys can support them.

sounds good to me.....

[Mpulse]

I watched the Nightly News last week, and heard where they (hispanics) want to not only change the words of the national anthem, but they want to convert it to spanish??! I agree with Bush on this one: "If you want to live in this country, you HAVE to learn the english language, and LEARN to sing the national anthem in ENGLISH, the way it's always been...". He didn't actualy say this word fpr word, but the message is still the same. I believe that ALL illegal immigrants should be sent back to whereever they came from. No exceptions.

[Pure_Evil]

I can basically say, I agree 100% with shogun

I do not need to type up book to post my opinion on this subject. When it comes to illegal aliens/immigrants/whatever name is PC this week ... they need to ship their asses back to where they hell they came from and as for their rights well F that, if you are here illegally and you are not a US citizen then you have no rights and need to get the hell out.:thumbs:


Well good, we will send them to Canada and you guys can support them.

the whole key people seam to be missing is ILLEGAL!!! do it the right way or get the f out! One of our Fire fighters is a imagrant and just became a citzen 2 months ago. Andy is a great guy who's overcome a lot to be a legal AMERICAN as well as a firefighter.

kick the illegals out on their asses and make them do it right.

[He Is Legend]

Illegal is the only word you need to hear

[FUS1ON]

Illegal is the only word you need to hear

Exactly

[TheMaster]

Not necessarily.

I've kept shut this entire thread, because I did not want to start an uproar. But I cannot anymore, I have got to give my viewpoints on this. And I want no one flaming me for doing this either, because I am giving my opinion. You don't like my opinion, you are more than welcome to post your own thoughts, but please don't shoot me down for what I have to say. No "**** you pinko liberal" bullcrap if you can help it.

The thing is I know that illegal immigrants are in here illegally, and we need to find a way to ensure people are coming into this country the legal way. But what about the illegal immigrants who are coming here because they hardly have as much of a life where they come from? Do we really need to send them back to their poorly-conditioned lives, or worse to face punishment from their governments? These people are entering the country illegally because they want a better life for themselves and their families. True they need to be doing it the legal way, otherwise they're breaking the law. But they should not just be sent back just like that.

Of course when it comes to people who are crossing the border just for breaking the law, send them back without hesitation. As I said earlier, we need tougher laws to better control the flow of illegal immigrants. But if there is one that says send them all back where they came from, I cannot and will not support it. That to me is a complete disregard of the conditions that caused them to enter this country in the first place.

[Dangerous Dan]

When I see the word illegal around a hotly contested subject I always think, "well if the law is always right, denying Chinese immigrants from becoming US citizens based on their 'race' in the early 1900s must have been alright then." Law is not inherently moral (and it changes and morphs), thus it's important to look beyond strict legalities when debating such an issue.

[TheMaster]

I just think we need to find a way to better enforce immigration laws but at the same time consider the people who are entering the United States. Who are they and why are they here? Do they have a criminal background? Do they like chunky or smooth peanut butter?

(Okay, I'll tell you right now on that last one I prefer smooth, but I guess, nah it really doesn't matter.:D )

[JIMINATOR]

legal is a relative term, ie, it may be illegal for people to speed, but they do it anyway. The answer is simple. If people do not want them here, then just stop giving them jobs. Once the jobs dry up, they will move on, maybe back to mexico. but wait you say, people DO want them here, and they are gainfully employing them.

The real issue is that there is some type of disconnect between employers, the public and congress.

Employers want them. The public likes to complain and complain and complain, while at the same time they enjoy the benefits of the cheap labor, and congress is just a bunch of morons that caters to the LCD....

In any case, you can do your part. Just be sure not to eat any fruit grown in the US and also make sure that all the contractors involved in anything you buy can certify that they use only 100% pure american labor. I mean lord forbid they use cheap labor to save a few bucks. That is not the american way....

As for the criminal thing, illegal immigrants do not commit crimes (since they want to stay here), studies have shown that usually will start happening from 3rd generation immigrants - after they have been 'assimilated' into our culture.

[MassacreAL]

Exactly not.
ha ha ha thats flame notice. rest i will read it later, but beginning is good :D :thumbs: :D

[TheMaster]

Ah shoot you caught that!:D

Well I went back and edited it before I saw your post because I thought it was starting my post off a bit explosively.

[FUS1ON]

TheMaster you must have edited it after I had seen it, it was fine the way you had it and don't be afraid to voice you opinion. That is what this is for, discussion of opinions and ideas and who knows, maybe even some enlightenment along the way. As long as you attack the person's opinion and not the person, you can have at it for all I care. ;)

[TheMaster]

Shogun I appreciate your input. Not that I was afraid to post my opinion, I just did not want an ugly messy pie throwing fight to erupt, you understand. I have voiced my political opinions here many times over without hesitation and I will continue to do so. Besides which, I also was waiting to see what most everyone else thought, because it is important to keep your mind open.

[Sirc]

Yeah, exactly. We hired a nice young Islamic guy to take care of our yard and do odd jobs around the house. What has he done in five years? Learned the English language, earned his commercial pilot license, and has gotten a degree in organic chemistry. Another success story. ;)

Let them in. They won't do us any harm. :thumbs:


EDIT: You didn't really think I was going to pass up this thread, did you? :P

[Pure_Evil]

so, you knowing hired a illegal alien, or you hired a legal immagrant?

[ME BIGGD01]

Sorry guys and gals but I am going to be honest to the way I feel and the way I see it. I am sure many will dislike what I am going to say but please understand this is the way I feel and do not intend to persuade anyone to think or feel like I do. I judge from what I see from my living and view points. What I mean is I judge from my area.

Ok, first I want to say that I know many illegal’s here in NY. There are good and bad in all groups. I know a few good ones and have spoke to some about how they got here and why they are here. I understand the fact that things are bad in their country and jobs are hard to come by. Most leave their families to come here and earn money to send back to their country for their families. (Defeats the purpose of immigration) (Prevent and monitor money transfers to these countries to track down illegal’s and prevent this routine USA Gov't keeps all transfer and put to border control).

Now most people are not aware how these people get into the country but from talking to some I have learned that many are smuggled here and given fake documents. The smuggler is to be paid (in this guys case who told me) around 7-15,000 American dollars over time. I asked what if you don't pay and he said that then the family in his country would pay and not with currency. Regardless, they are provided with many fake documents and either setup by another family member currently living illegally in America.

So how do I feel about this? Like many said Illegal is the key word but it goes further than that. These people work hard because they have to. They are not born better workers but because of their situations they need to work harder for less money. My heart does not bleed one drop before it bleeds for those who migrated into America legally like many of our ancestors did who were treated like trash and enslaved and murdered. Yes this was not just black people that had it rough and dealt with racism. It has been brought upon every single nationality that has migrated into America. The history goes a lot deeper then the recent 100 years but gets ignored.

Honestly I admit I dislike these people because I am not open to their culture and way of living. I feel these people are nothing but scavengers that come to this country to loot of our country and give nothing back in return but crappy neighborhoods and over crowded schools with kids that can not speak English. They are a burden on tax payers as they continue to reproduce without the responsibility of being able to afford their children which then gives them public assistance. I don't care what anyone says but there is no way they can afford medical insurance working tree jobs at minimum wage along with rent , car insurance, utilities etc. They are doing everything in this country illegally and this does nothing good for America plain and simple. They are spreading like weeds and infesting this country like roaches. Not one person here or any where has mentioned one good thing they actually do for America. I do not want to here The Bullsh!t that they work hard because most Americans work hard. I don’t want to here they do jobs that Americans won't do because that is Bullsh!t also. The true statement is they do jobs that crooked corporation’s wont pay a realistic pay wage to an American who does everything legally. These corps should be penalized and punished to life imprisonment along with all assets seized and sold. These companies do nothing good for the country regardless of how big they are. One day your job may be replaced by some monkey who can not speak a word of English so the company can get the job done for 60/70% less along with saving by not having to provide health insurance and benefits. Where does that leave you or worst, where does it leave the country as more keep piling in and citizens of this country get sh!t on and lose out their SS and health insurance. Who the F is paying for all these illegal’s services?

So regardless if you are a Liberal or what ever, unless/until you can provide information to me that can prove where these people make this country better and how they make it better I will continue to feel the way I do. I will remind everyone feeling sorry for them does not count because America can not afford to pay for everyone’s problems especially when Americans are not being taken car of. There are too many countries with problems where people are suffering. F them, it is not our problem because some feel bad. I feel every American comes first before any outsiders. That policy should not be seen as wrong but intelligent. If anyone thinks we should take care of other countries people before our own, they should be more realistic. With that said, I am not saying you are a fool for feeling bad for others but your country should be your first priority.

I am sorry if this offended anyone but there is no other way I see putting it. I also want to blame all political parties in our Government that are nothing less then useless and full blame. These scumbags will do anything to get votes no matter what the costs even if they sell us out.

[ME BIGGD01]

I would also like to add that instead of sending anyone back to their country, they should serve time in a new program/jail where all ilegal's will have to put 5 years hard labor in a Chinise type labor jail. I think that this will be the only way to pursuade illegal entries by capturing and ordering to mow lawns and farm for as long as their prison term. This would save America a lot of money considering the costs it is costing American taxpayers.

[JIMINATOR]

I think we should pass laws to make illegal immigrants into slaves. that would save the tax payers even more money, and we can also drop the schooling and other abuses they do to our system. after all, that is what a lot of unscrupulous employers do to their illegal workers. this way we can legalize it and all reap the benefits.... :thumbs:

[Pure_Evil]

I think we should pass laws to make illegal immigrants into slaves. that would save the tax payers even more money, and we can also drop the schooling and other abuses they do to our system. after all, that is what a lot of unscrupulous employers do to their illegal workers. this way we can legalize it and all reap the benefits.... :thumbs:http://bestsmileys.com/signs14/13.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/signs14/22.gif

[Sirc]

BTW, my point wasn't to knock Hare for his family's experience with an illegal, it was to point out that while there are success stories, obviously there are also horror stories. Better safe than sorry IMHO.

As a nation the US has limited resources. The ideal is noble, and at one time it was doable, but times have changed and we can no longer welcome the huddled masses and wretched refuse with open arms. The inscription on the Statue of Liberty is history, not reality.

[TheMaster]

I would also like to add that instead of sending anyone back to their country, they should serve time in a new program/jail where all ilegal's will have to put 5 years hard labor in a Chinise type labor jail. I think that this will be the only way to pursuade illegal entries by capturing and ordering to mow lawns and farm for as long as their prison term. This would save America a lot of money considering the costs it is costing American taxpayers.

At least that way they won't have to be deported back. You make some very good arguments Biggs. But my opinion on this all still remains the same. Not necessarily saying they're overall doing a good thing for the US economy or all that.

[ME BIGGD01]

I think we should pass laws to make illegal immigrants into slaves. that would save the tax payers even more money, and we can also drop the schooling and other abuses they do to our system. after all, that is what a lot of unscrupulous employers do to their illegal workers. this way we can legalize it and all reap the benefits.... :thumbs:

Sounds like a preventive measure to me to deter illegals:thumbs: It's not like we are forcing them to cross our borders illegaly.

I still have not heard anyones realistic proposal to fix the problem. I also have not heard anyone say what these illegal's do for this country that makes this country better.

[ME BIGGD01]

At least that way they won't have to be deported back. You make some very good arguments Biggs. But my opinion on this all still remains the same. Not necessarily saying they're overall doing a good thing for the US economy or all that.

Master, I understand you 100% when you say you feel for these people but I think you need to look at the overall picture. I see nothing wrong with being a caring person and want all people to live a great life. I honestly feel the same way but with that I do not think it is my responsibility for doing so. I also want to remind all we have a legal system in place for a reason. Nobody thinks about the diseases these people can be bringing over to this country. If we allow just anyone here why just stop with south America? Why not just let everyone in America and forget about what legal systems we have?

I am not really debating this issue with anyone. I would just like to know really what good comes out of this. I wish I could see what others see that makes this all ok.

[TheMaster]

Well again I haven't really said what overall positive effect illegal immigration has on this country, if any. Good for them, maybe. Oh sure they build better lives for themselves, and they deserve better lives, but what exactly is the positive effect on the American economy? I personally still have yet to see this.