Guns

[Sirc]

I'm just curious what guns you all have and what you would recommend for home defense. I'm shopping a bit right now, so links would be helpful. I figure that you can just close your eyes and pray for the best, or be prepared and be able to handle to the worst. I'm also looking for cabinets/locks, etc. I'll probably end up buying a handgun and possibly a shotty.

If you have opinions about guns feel free to express them. I'm still a bit on the fence about arming myself.

[::: DARK PSI :::]

Guns are bad.. mmmkay

[Sirc]

Guns are bad.. mmmkay

No..people are bad. And bad people have guns.

[FUS1ON]

I sleep better knowing I have a AK47 and 9mm in the house because you are correct, bad people do indeed have guns. This way, we are even.

[Sirc]

I sleep better knowing I have a AK47 and 9mm in the house because you are correct, bad people do indeed have guns. This way, we are even.

Erm, do you have a fully operational AK47? I'll have to check what the laws are in Ohio concerning automatic weapons. We are allowed to carry concealed weapons with a license though. And actually I think it gives us the upper hand. Most dipshiats expect to find sheep, not tigers when they prowl.

[FUS1ON]

The one I have here is not setup for full auto.

[Sirc]

It's sorta funny, a lot of businesses around here have signs up saying you aren't allowed to bring a firearm into their establishment. As if someone is going to say oh yeah, I'm packing, hang on while I go put it in the car. :rolleyes:

[Oscar(WCFD)]

Between a 9mm w/16 round clip and a 55lb Pit Bull the bad guys aren't leaving my place in the vertical. ;) I sleep pretty good too.

If you're looking for home protection a shotgun would be the best, all ya gotta do is point and shoot. I would also keep a hand gun within easy reach when you're in bed. I chose a 9mm because if I take a shot at somebody it wont go thru the walls into my neighbors house like a 357 or 44 mag would. Don't need any collateral damage.

[Caged Anger]

heh, growin up on a farm one acquires all sorts of interesting firearms,lol

[NastyDawg]

I sleep better knowing I have a AK47 and 9mm in the house because you are correct, bad people do indeed have guns. This way, we are even.


OK scratch Shos house off to break into http://www.smileypad.com/v224/Funny/Crutches.gif

[Death Engineer]

As a parent of small kids, I'll take the gun safety side. Personally, I believe that adding more ammunition can just cause more problems. I fully believe in the right to bear arms, but I don't allow them in my home. There are just too many accidents for me to allow that kind of danger around my kids.

See the following link:
http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/yourchild/guns.htm

Specifically the following:

What if I've taught my kids not to touch a gun if they find one?
A number of studies (linked in the story above), suggest that even kids who are trained not to touch guns can't resist, and that parents have unrealistic expectations about their kids' behavior around guns. That's why parents are encouraged to keep guns unloaded and locked separately from ammunition, and to ask about guns at the houses where their children play.

Statistics from the 2002 edition of Injury Facts from the National Safety Council:

In 1999, 3,385 kids ages 0-19 years were killed with a gun. This includes homicides, suicides, and unintentional injuries.
This is equivalent to about 9 deaths per day, a figure commonly used by journalists.
The 3,385 firearms-related deaths for age group 0-19 years breaks down to:
214 unintentional
1,078 suicides
1,990 homicides
83 for which the intent could not be determined
20 due to legal intervention
Of the total firearms-related deaths:
73 were of children under five years old
416 were children 5-14 years old
2,896 were 15-19 years old

[JIMINATOR]

if you don't have kids, then fine, guns are great. if your father taught you how to shoot, and you had a shotgun at the age of 10, that's fine too. the problem is that with most people owning guns, they don't take the time to properly teach their kids about the handling of guns. there is also an assumption that a gun locked away in a chest with ammo elsewhere is going to be safe. that is wrong. kids are evil :) and they make it their business to know and to get into everything. a gun is something they would love to show off, or hold, even if they don't use it. so although guns may be good for protection, the reality is that in far too many cases the gun owner and family turn out to be the victims of having a gun in the house.

[JIMINATOR]

add to that, what are the statistics of armed breakins into houses? i mean if you are going to do that, you might as well rob banks. most robbers are going to strike when nobody is home and hoof it if someone does come home. the home invasion type things usually involve drugs.

[ME BIGGD01]

I have a pretty nice arsenal which I will not discuss here fully. I will say that I am prepared for anything such as what happened in NO. I usually go shooting upstate to keep accuracy dead on. I guess you can spec my arsenal for every kind of war. I have weapons for close combat, sniper combat, mid range combat, and explosive combat. One day I have to post some video of me shooting some of them. My favorite weapon is my AK47 which I am dead on. Mosberg is a sweet weapon and comes very handy when you have specialized shells suc as flame thrower or flare to light up dark area. I pretty much stacked uo ammo when 9/11 happened because of the nature of human when a disaster occurs.

I have had these weapons before I had my daughter and since then have put them in a secure area that is not only safe so my daughter can not get her hands on it but even if my house is robbed they would most likely not be able to get them. I also enjoy my camera setup that completely records any intruder that comes on or near property.

[Dan2]

I would recommend an an alarm system, a loud dog and a nine iron. Unless of course you live in a rural area. And don't have children. Go with the DB shotty. And a 500 lb. log on a trip wire outside your bedroom door.

[SHOTGUNmaniac]

we in the uk use a baseball bat. Normally does the trick.

Then again, we don't really have the same rate of gun crime as you guys do.

[Wiper]

Were do u need a gun for if your not attend to use it...

I'm trying to understand the logics here:

You use a gun to defend yourself from people who also have a gun to defend themself with. And of course there will allways be people who use it like it shouldn't be. But a lot who reach a point of blind fury (can happen to anyone) will use it also when it's in handreach.

Insane country the USA when it goes about communitystuff, kids allowed to walk with a gun, people who are 16 allowed to drive cars. But omg, the world is to small when a nipple appears on tv :rolleyes:

[Bingo]

Works well enough. :)

B

[NightBreed]

we in the uk use a baseball bat. Normally does the trick.

Then again, we don't really have the same rate of gun crime as you guys do.


Same works for me here in the US too Darren..


If I'm in any type of conflict and there's a gun present, everything changes..If you draw a weapon, you better be damn ready and willing to use it,and justify your actions afterwards..Too many times someone innocent gets hurt or killed because of bad judgement or itchy triger fingers, so the hand to hand assault is the modus operandi in my house..Just hang around the bars for a few years and learn to be a barroom brawler..

Anyone breaks into my house and I'm there with my Louisville Slugger? :dunno: Don't know Officer..he must have fallen down the stairs !! :wave:

[SHOTGUNmaniac]

I like the excuse NB, lol He fell down the stairs, and seemed to bounce back up for seconds..

[Black Rose]

I always thought every man has a gun in his pocket http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/angel_innocent.gif


..Sirc:... "I was just cleaning it and it went off" :P

[FUS1ON]

Were do u need a gun for if your not attend to use it...

I'm trying to understand the logics here:

You use a gun to defend yourself from people who also have a gun to defend themself with. And of course there will allways be people who use it like it shouldn't be. But a lot who reach a point of blind fury (can happen to anyone) will use it also when it's in handreach.

Insane country the USA when it goes about communitystuff, kids allowed to walk with a gun, people who are 16 allowed to drive cars. But omg, the world is to small when a nipple appears on tv :rolleyes:


Just because you own a gun does not make you some fanatic or lunatic. I love my family and will gladly die to protect them. If some SoB comes in my house armed with a gun looking to do harm and I don't have one, my chances of survival are 0%, at least with a gun the chances are at 50%.

Lets say you are a crook and are going to rob a house and you have to choose between two houses, one homeowner is a gun owner and the other is against the current gun laws and wants to do away with them ..... which house are you going to rob? May God have mercy of your soul, because I won't if you come here.

Yeah the USA is so insane and such a bad place that we have people from other countries risking their lives just trying to get here illegally. /sarcasm off. You do not know what you are talking about because kids are not allowed to "walk around with guns" here. About the driving, there will always be a small percentage of "people who are 16" that are not mature enough to handle the responsibilities of driving, but you can not penalize the others for the immaturity of a few.

[Wiper]

Defendant: ...and then he felt in my knife
Officer: But sir, TEN TIMES??!!!
D: euh...

[ForrestFunk]

Just because you own a gun does not make you some fanatic or lunatic. I love my family and will gladly die to protect them. If some SoB comes in my house armed with a gun looking to do harm and I don't have one, my chances of survival are 0%, at least with a gun the chances are at 50%.


sorry, but thats not right, if you dont have a gun your chances are much higher than 50%, cause they dont want your life in first place ... let them get some money or what ever...


such a discussion is only possible in usa :rolleyes:

dont you see that this is a vicious circle?!?!

[Wiper]

Just because you own a gun does not make you some fanatic or lunatic. I love my family and will gladly die to protect them. If some SoB comes in my house armed with a gun looking to do harm and I don't have one, my chances of survival are 0%, at least with a gun the chances are at 50%.

Lets say you are a crook and are going to rob a house and you have to choose between two houses, one homeowner is a gun owner and the other is against the current gun laws and wants to do away with them ..... which house are you going to rob? May God have mercy of your soul, because I won't if you come here.

Yeah the USA is so insane and such a bad place that we have people from other countries risking their lives just trying to get here illegally. /sarcasm off. You do not know what you are talking about because kids are not allowed to "walk around with guns" here. About the driving, there will always be a small percentage of "people who are 16" that are not mature enough to handle the responsibilities of driving, but you can not penalize the others for the immaturity of a few.

First of all, I don't have anything against the USA. Only against the narrow view on some issues...
And I'll change the insane part into "not so smart" (and I'm not talking about the USA in general but about some of the communitystuff)

Like I said, the hole incident with Janet J. (nipplegate) the hole country were upside down, but noone cares how many people there are killed that day.
Second, (dutch verbal) Cat in danger makes strange leapes: If you draw a weapon against someone who is robbing you will only make the situation worse and more agressive. The moment you draw a weapon the robber will find himself into danger. Just give your money/stuff and be happy you're still alive.

[NightBreed]

I always thought every man has a gun in his pocket http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/angel_innocent.gif


..Sirc:... "I was just cleaning it and it went off" :P

:funny: :jammin: :rofl:

[BobtheCkroach]

sorry, but thats not right, if you dont have a gun your chances are much higher than 50%, cause they dont want your life in first place ... let them get some money or what ever...


such a discussion is only possible in usa :rolleyes:

dont you see that this is a vicious circle?!?!

What happens when the guy isn't a robber, but rather a serial killer, or a serial rapist, or some kid hopped up on a ton of heroine that doesn't know what he's doing, or something else like that?

Not everyone breaking in is trying to get some quick cash. Yes, the majority of break-ins are money related, but there are a lot of freaks out there, too.

[BobtheCkroach]

Insane country the USA when it goes about communitystuff, kids allowed to walk with a gun, people who are 16 allowed to drive cars. But omg, the world is to small when a nipple appears on tv :rolleyes:

The laws differ depending on the state, but in Michigan you have to be 16 to drive a car (without an adult), 18 to own a firearm (I think you have to be 21 to own a handgun, but i'm not sure), and 21 to have a license to carry that firearm on your person if it isn't 100% visible. Even if it is visible, without a license you can only carry it to the firing range/hunting area and back.

There are tons of kids carrying firearms illegally and shooting people. But they're not supposed to be. It's the same as those kids carrying drugs.

[ForrestFunk]

...but there are a lot of freaks out there, too...

you answered your question yourself IMO ... most of the break-ins are money related ... so the possibility to get killed in one of these cases is so much higher when you try to draw a gun. as for the minority of the freak break-ins i guess that i would choose to live with this risk


if you think about what all can happen you can kill yourself immediately...

[BobtheCkroach]

sorry, but thats not right, if you dont have a gun your chances are much higher than 50%, cause they dont want your life in first place ... let them get some money or what ever...


such a discussion is only possible in usa :rolleyes:

dont you see that this is a vicious circle?!?!

And SHO specifically said if someone comes into this home "looking to do harm"

[Die Hard]

Guns = Guns

Sirc: buy a baseball bat, home security system and a dog.

You are much more likely to be in a serious car accident or run down by a motorist than having a gun wielding nutter try to break into your house.

[Pure_Evil]

I'm just curious what guns you all have and what you would recommend for home defense. I'm shopping a bit right now, so links would be helpful. I figure that you can just close your eyes and pray for the best, or be prepared and be able to handle to the worst. I'm also looking for cabinets/locks, etc. I'll probably end up buying a handgun and possibly a shotty.

If you have opinions about guns feel free to express them. I'm still a bit on the fence about arming myself.Have yet to personally hear of a break in vs gun owner (armed). Most of the break ins, if someone's home, the perp makes a run for it on sight of the home owner. Think about the amount of time it would take you to get your gun, get your amo and confront the person, vs the time it takes to dial 911. There's more of a chance that someone will break into your house to STEAL your gun than of you using it in self defence. Most break ins hapen when nobody is home, they love to steal guns. Gun owners feel great when they come into the station to report there gun stolen, and we investigate them, while they worry what kind of person has their gun, and who will get hurt by it. :rolleyes:

If you like target shooting, hunting, live on a farm, sell drugs, live in the hood, get a gun. If you'r a average person, fit and live in a decent neighborhood and feel you need a gun for security, seek help.

Get a dog... teeth are scary

[BobtheCkroach]

I guess I could give my own opinion :P

I grew up with a firearm in the house from the moment I was born til the moment I left. When I was a child my dad had a 4/10 shotgun, which is about as weak a shotgun as you can get. I didn't even know he owned it til I was about 10, but it was there somewhere. 'Round the time that I was 12 he instructed me on how to fire it, clean it, properly carry it, etc. When I was 13 or 14 he bought me a 20 guage. Around the same time he purchased a .22 handgun and taught me how to properly use that as well.

It was made clear to me that these were not meant for me to touch in an angry manner. I believe that it's possible to having a firearm in a family setting and not have it be an issue. It takes dedication on the part of the parent to not just hide the ammo from the weapon and hide both from the child, though. You have to be prepared to make sure that they child understands and knows the rules. Locks and safes are a must. Even then, children are mischevious.

I grew up in a family that had 4 firearms without incident, but I also realize that it was the result of dedicated and meticulous parenting on the part of my folks.

[BobtheCkroach]

Have yet to personally hear of a break in vs gun owner (armed). Most of the break ins, if someone's home, the perp makes a run for it on sight of the home owner. Think about the amount of time it would take you to get your gun, get your amo and confront the person, vs the time it takes to dial 911. There's more of a chance that someone will break into your house to STEAL your gun than of you using it in self defence. Most break ins hapen when nobody is home, they love to steal guns. Gun owners feel great when they come into the station to report there gun stolen, and we investigate them, while they worry what kind of person has their gun, and who will get hurt by it. :rolleyes:

If you like target shooting, hunting, live on a farm, sell drugs, live in the hood, get a gun. If you'r a average person, fit and live in a decent neighborhood and feel you need a gun for security, seek help.

Get a dog... teeth are scary

If I lived in a city, I would feel far less of a need to own a firearm. I like how you pointed out if you're selling drugs, though :P

and I can't get a dog that will defend the household...b/c then I wouldn't come home. Dogs scare the heck outta me. I had a German shepherd lung at me and rip a huge hole in my shirt. Ever since then, I like small cute dogs. Nice dogs. Clapping Dogs, Rhythmic Dogs, Harmonic Dogs, Street Dogs, Dogs of the World Unite! Dancin' Dogs (yeah) Countin' Dogs, funky Dog, Nasty Dog (Dog) Atomic Dog! Bow-wow-wow yippie-o yippie-ay! Bow-wow yippie-0 yippie-ay!

Er...sorry. :P

C'mon! Give some love to George Clinton! Funk rocks! :wootrock:

[Die Hard]

Keep taking the pills Bob :rofl:

[BobtheCkroach]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/clipserve/B00004Z3MA001001/0/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_001/002-8053387-0812819

I'm getting OT, I promise I'll stop.

[ME BIGGD01]

not one person has mentioned responsibility. It is # 1 even if you own a pellet gun. I think differently than most here but regardless everyone lives a different life and sees things differently. Since my daughter was born I have had to remove all weapons from the areas she may go. I also took consideration that even if my house is robbed there would be no way the burgular could take my guns either. I feel confident that no matter what even if house gets robbed the people doing it will be recorded for the police to take care of. America has some pretty stiff laws regarding guns. Probably more strict than most countries. Every year they try to take your rights away but the truth is that people that legally own guns are not the ones doing crimes and committing murder. Every gun I have is registered and legal. It would be stupid for anyone that has a registered weapon and do something bad because they will trace it quickly. I most likely will never have to use a gun against another person. One could only hope. But the reality of having that extra insurance in case of anything is a plus. I would rather be prepared then unprepared for any situation.

I think if you feel you do not want one you should not get one. I think never be critical to those that do have them. You may one day thank your neighbor for having one at a time one is needed. In New Orleans I think the people who had one were a lot safer then the ones who did not.

[Sirc]

I live a pretty low crime area in an area that part suburban and part rural. I wasn't thinking so much about a random break-in, I was thinking more of a larger more prolonged and widespread situation. As in a natural disaster, terrorist attack, economic collapse, etc. Shiat happens, shiat has happened before, and shiat is bound to happen again. People panic and do crazy things, especially in large scale disasters that overwhelm the capabilities of local law enforcement. It would give me some peace of mind to know that I could protect my family and property if it came down to it. Once shiat hits the fan it's too late to plan and prepare.

[Sirc]

But the reality of having that extra insurance in case of anything is a plus. I would rather be prepared then unprepared for any situation.

I think if you feel you do not want one you should not get one. I think never be critical to those that do have them. You may one day thank your neighbor for having one at a time one is needed. In New Orleans I think the people who had one were a lot safer then the ones who did not.

Exactly.

[ME BIGGD01]

That is my point exactly. The idea that people who own guns go around slinging them as if we live in the old west is false.

I would like to ask those here if they know why this is a constitutional right of ours? It is very important to understand why it's there. It also goes along with many of the things I have posted about many times.

Also did you know WWII the reason Japan never tried to invade us was because almost every house hold had a gun? This is a fact although I doubt it is as important in todays world. You never really know in the world we live today.

I do wish people would stop blaming guns for chaos. There are way too many other things that some deranged fool can do to harm people. Statistics are never fair depending who is running the survey.

[Die Hard]

I live a pretty low crime area in an area that part suburban and part rural. I wasn't thinking so much about a random break-in, I was thinking more of a larger more prolonged and widespread situation. As in a natural disaster, terrorist attack, economic collapse, etc. Shiat happens, shiat has happened before, and shiat is bound to happen again. People panic and do crazy things, especially in large scale disasters that overwhelm the capabilities of local law enforcement. It would give me some peace of mind to know that I could protect my family and property if it came down to it. Once shiat hits the fan it's too late to plan and prepare.You are either letting your government brainwash you or you are reading too many books.

[Sirc]

You are either letting your government brainwash you or you are reading too many books.

Actually I have no confidence in the US government to handle a major disaster. It has already demonstrated that it can't. I really don't think buying a weapon or two is really that out there. It just comes down to your level of comfort. If you are comfortable that nothing could possibly happen, or if it does then someone else will take care of you and your family, then that's cool. Good luck to you.

[Die Hard]

Thats fine, but there will not be a natural disaster or a terrorist attack in Ohio that would require you to own a gun.

[Sirc]

Phew! That's a relief. :rolleyes::P

[Pure_Evil]

Keep taking the pills Bob :rofl: word!

DH makes me smile


although sometimes in a dirty little way :P

[Die Hard]

I thought you would be pleased :P

Now start Sam up and I'll show you guns ;)

[Pure_Evil]

not one person has mentioned responsibility. It is # 1 even if you own a pellet gun. I think differently than most here but regardless everyone lives a different life and sees things differently. Since my daughter was born I have had to remove all weapons from the areas she may go. I also took consideration that even if my house is robbed there would be no way the burgular could take my guns either. I feel confident that no matter what even if house gets robbed the people doing it will be recorded for the police to take care of. America has some pretty stiff laws regarding guns. Probably more strict than most countries. Every year they try to take your rights away but the truth is that people that legally own guns are not the ones doing crimes and committing murder. Every gun I have is registered and legal. It would be stupid for anyone that has a registered weapon and do something bad because they will trace it quickly. I most likely will never have to use a gun against another person. One could only hope. But the reality of having that extra insurance in case of anything is a plus. I would rather be prepared then unprepared for any situation.

I think if you feel you do not want one you should not get one. I think never be critical to those that do have them. You may one day thank your neighbor for having one at a time one is needed. In New Orleans I think the people who had one were a lot safer then the ones who did not.

funny, when my son was born, I removed even the pellet guns from my house.

and as far as you New Orleans reference goes, the smart ones left when the new the huricane was coming, and didn't need their neighbors gun, they just needed their insurance pollicy paid up.

[OUTLAWS Tip]

I grew up in a house without guns. The only gun I ever fired was a friends .22rifle as a kid. I own a pump pellet gun for fun. I killed a crow from about 100yards away and felt like an a$$hole for killing him, but it was early in the morning and I needed sleep. LOL
I've never owned a real gun and never will. I don't have a family to worry about and if I saw trouble in my own home I am sure I could at least run to get out of harms way. That being said I could probably leave my front door unlocked and never have a problem.

If I ever feel the need to own a gun where I live I will move.
;)

[Sirc]

I'd love to have this shotgun. Dang, now that's firepower! :thumbs:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1032624174739440974&q=shotgun

[FUS1ON]

That is a very impressive shotgun and the prices ($1200-1400) for it are not too bad.

[JIMINATOR]

I am still a little hazy on the whole gun protecting the house thing. If someone knocks on your door, do you go there with a gun? what if they pull one out? do you carry a handgun everywhere? if someone breaks into your bedroom while you are sleeping, what do you do then? certainly guns can be useful when someone is still outside trying to get in, but how many times has that happened? If you are not home, how does the gun help? having a gun leads to a much greater chance of using a gun, or escalating a situation. maybe in the country the assumption is that people are armed, stay away. for overall safety and a theft deterrent, a vocal dog is the best. lacking that, move to a better neighborhood. worst choice is getting a gun.

[Pure_Evil]

dog is good!

teeth for teh win!

[FUS1ON]

Jim what is so hard to understand?

If the system breaks down and the law cannot adequately protect you like it did in New Orleans, then owning a gun is a good idea when it comes down to when some low life wants to come in a take what you have or possibly do harm to you or your family.

But to answer your questions, No, I do not carry these guns around or take them to the door with me. If I hear something unusual then maybe.

Lets just put it this way, I sleep better knowing that I have them and you do your thing and i'm going to do mine.


Also .... if anyone decides to buy a gun. Go to a gun range and get professional advice on how to shoot and to operate it, get to know how to operate it until it is like second nature to you. It would be bad to be fumbling around looking for the safety lever when you only have a split second to react.

[Speedsweeper]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

I can't believe so many of you folks on this forum carry firearms. I guess you can't trust anyone anymore, but would you really kill someone if you had to, or could you live with yourself if you had to shoot to kill?

[ME BIGGD01]

I think I am doing fine with living with myself:thumbs:

[Bingo]

How about this for a nice home defense system.

My kinda pistol, man!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=134272336445879609

[Bingo]

And I'll only offer this opinion:

There is no perfect way. No system works flawlessly - either banning guns or allowing them. Both have flaws, both have areas which they work well and both have areas where they fail.

Is one better than the other? Nope.

Would I give my left testicle for everyone in the world to get along and for there to be no violence? You are abso-friggin-lutely damn right I would. Hell, I'd prolly give both nuts to see that happen. Seriously.

However, until then - I will gladly smile at anyone who advocates either system. It's the wonderful thing about a free society.

I will furiously beat the snot out of anyone who doesn't use guns wisely, or who keeps them unprotected in a home of any sort - much less a home with children. Such people have not earned the right to choose for themselves at that point.

That's what it comes down to really - taking whatever choice you've made and acting upon it wisely. And I don't care what country you come from - there are always going to be idiots in any country, sadly.

B

[OUTLAWS Tip]

I take back part of what I said. After seeing that fast-@ssed shotgun and automatic pistol I want one of each.
:D

[NastyDawg]

How about this for a nice home defense system.

My kinda pistol, man!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=134272336445879609


Damn that thing is trick!

[JIMINATOR]

now i am not saying to ban guns, far from it. to each his own. i just think a lot of the arguments for guns are not valid. new orleans is a bad example. the entire situation with the dead bodies, rapes, murders, etc was all bogus and hyped up for the news.

for the people kill people argument, well, there are no drive-by knifings. guns certainly make it easier for people to kill lots of people at one time.

gun safety is paramount. But the note about fumbling with the gun, that has probably happened countless times. the reality there is that the gun was probably close at hand (under the pillow, bed, etc) and not secured with ammo in a different place. maybe somebody takes it out at night and locks it during the day. people forget things. that all makes for a dangerous situation, especially if kids visit the house.

-----------
"Results: During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.

Conclusions: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."

[Sirc]

I take back part of what I said. After seeing that fast-@ssed shotgun and automatic pistol I want one of each.
:D

I freely admit there is a "cool toy" factor involved, lol. :D

Hey Jim, how many of those drive-by shootings were done with legally purchased and registered guns? Yeah, some of them might have been stolen, but I'm willing to bet the number of guns stolen from homes each year is only a fraction of a percent of the number of guns that are available on the black market. Guns that are only being purchased by criminals. How many of those guns are $25 dollar Saturday-night Specials? Or illegal automatic weapons?

And yes, dumbasses can by guns. Dumbasses can also drive cars, which is probably more of a threat.

[Wiper]

1) I figure that you can just close your eyes and pray for the best, or be prepared and be able to handle to the worst.

2) If you have opinions about guns feel free to express them. I'm still a bit on the fence about arming myself.

1) Argument against: Yeah he got shooted cuz instead to giving the money he tried to play rambo, but he still got his honour...

2) Looks like (reading all the arguments in favor of the gun) you allready decided that a gun will be bought.

3) You will not buy a defence only a illusion, are you really upto shooting to kill for money?? To be honest: me not, so the only thing it will give is a nasty situation with someone who will shoot to kill.

It's all about chances: mathematics. I think chance that someone get killed by arms outside a getting robbed situation (for example: kids playing with guns) is far bigger then actually get killed during a robbery.

Hehe, eventually it's all about who's the biggest gun...

[Sirc]

1) Argument against: Yeah he got shooted cuz instead to giving the money he tried to play rambo, but he still got his honour...

2) Looks like (reading all the arguments in favor of the gun) you allready decided that a gun will be bought.

3) You will not buy a defence only a illusion, are you really upto shooting to kill for money?? To be honest: me not, so the only thing it will give is a nasty situation with someone who will shoot to kill.

It's all about chances: mathematics. I think chance that someone get killed by arms outside a getting robbed situation (for example: kids playing with guns) is far bigger then actually get killed during a robbery.

Hehe, eventually it's all about who's the biggest gun...

Read the whole thread please. I've already said that the gun would be for protection against a sustained threat, not a break in. Obviously if someone bursts into my house I'm not going to have a gun readily available, and therefore won't be in a "Rambo" situation.

I haven't decided to actually buy a gun yet. Although yes, I do give more heed towards the opinions of American citizens than European subjects. :)

WTF are you talking about shooting to kill for money? Was this just your #1 comment re-phrased? Have you no concept of self-defense? Of protecting what is yours and possibly making a sacrifice to let some coward behind a gun know that you are not a sheep for him to shear?

And frankly, I will do what I can to protect my family. If that means sitting and watching my house being robbed then that is what I will do. But if you catch me in a 1v1 situation and point a gun at me and tell me to hand over my property, then I will look you in the eyes and say no. I've always felt that way, even though I've gotten a beating or two back in my school days for doing it. But that's just me. It's my nature to get angry rather than scared.

[Wiper]

Read the whole thread please. I've already said that the gun would be for protection against a sustained threat, not a break in. Obviously if someone bursts into my house I'm not going to have a gun readily available, and therefore won't be in a "Rambo" situation.

I haven't decided to actually buy a gun yet. Although yes, I do give more heed towards the opinions of American citizens than European subjects. :)

WTF are you talking about shooting to kill for money? Was this just your #1 comment re-phrased? Have you no concept of self-defense? Of protecting what is yours and possibly making a sacrifice to let some coward behind a gun know that you are not a sheep for him to shear?

And frankly, I will do what I can to protect my family. If that means sitting and watching my house being robbed then that is what I will do. But if you catch me in a 1v1 situation and point a gun at me and tell me to hand over my property, then I will look you in the eyes and say no. I've always felt that way, even though I've gotten a beating or two back in my school days for doing it. But that's just me. It's my nature to get angry rather than scared.

Sustained threat? how specific has the label got to be??

For the WTF part: what are you actually affraid of, losing material goods or not being noticed as a though guy for doing nothing?

Since you will never get the gun ready in time outside a "sustained threat", it will only be good for a false secure feeling.

For all the lost property there will be a nice insurance ;)

And yes I admit, can be a funny tool on a guncourse :D

[Sirc]

Sustained threat? how specific has the label got to be??

For the WTF part: what are you actually affraid of, losing material goods or not being noticed as a though guy for doing nothing?

Since you will never get the gun ready in time outside a "sustained threat", it will only be good for a false secure feeling.

For all the lost property there will be a nice insurance ;)

And yes I admit, can be a funny tool on a guncourse :D

What country are you from?

[Wiper]

What country are you from?


Hehe, why do I get the feeling when I tell it's not the USA, that the next post will degrading my arguments :D

[Sirc]

Hehe, why do I get the feeling when I tell it's not the USA, that the next post will degrading my arguments :D

Why are you afraid to tell me what country you are from? Do you have something to be ashamed of? I'm from the USA, and I say that proudly.

[Wiper]

Why are you afraid to tell me what country you are from? Do you have something to be ashamed of? I'm from the USA, and I say that proudly.

Rofl, that was not my point :D

But I'm from the Netherlands and yes I'm glad I live here :)

[Sirc]

Rofl, that was not my point :D

But I'm from the Netherlands and yes I'm glad I live here :)


The Netherlands remained neutral in World War I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I), but was invaded by Nazi Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany) in 1940, forcing it to become a member of the allied forces during World War II. The country was quickly overrun and then occupied. While a significant number of Dutch citizens collaborated with the occupiers and 50,000 Dutch citizens volunteered to fight in Russia with the Waffen SS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen_SS), the country remained officially an occupied state rather than a German ally.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands#_note-1) During the occupation over 100,000 Dutch Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew) were murdered in the Holocaust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust) along with significant numbers of Dutch Roma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_people) (gypsies). The 21st Army Group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_Army_Group) conducted military operations to liberate The Netherlands after the breakout from Normandy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Normandy), and British, Canadian, Polish and American soldiers fought on Dutch soil beginning in September 1944 until the entire country was liberated in May 1945. By the end of the war malnutrition and starvation were rife among the population.


On February 28, 1941, the German Reichskommissar in Holland, Seyss-Inquart, proclaimed an ordinance concerning the "duty for the performance of services." This ordinance provided for the forced employment of Dutch citizens in Nazi-Germany and its occupied territories. The recruitment took place initially through regional Dutch government employment offices who possessed the means for enforcement, specifically in the case of unemployed persons.Arm yourselves and that will never happen again. It would have never have happened in America...not then and not now. And you're welcome for having Americans die to help release you from your bonds. That won't ever happen again you might say? Hell no it won't. You can thank the USA in advance for that.

[Wiper]

Arm yourselves and that will never happen again. It would have never have happened in America...not then and not now. And you're welcome for having Americans die to help release you from your bonds. That won't ever happen again you might say? Hell no it won't. You can thank the USA in advance for that.

Srry to say this but your stretching it out of proportions...

Besides from the fact that a lot of armed people doesn't make an army

the arms can also turn against yourself (wich is much more likely): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War (During the American civil-war there were more casualties then the sum of any other war ever fought by the USA)

[Sirc]

Srry to say this but your stretching it out of proportions...

Besides from the fact that a lot of armed people doesn't make an army

the arms can also turn against yourself (wich is much more likely): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War (During the American civil-war there were more casualties then the sum of any other war ever fought by the USA)

No, I'm not stretching it out of proportions. A lot of armed people may not make an army, but they can make a formidable and overwhelming resistance.

The American civil war was fought by two organized armies, not "a lot of armed people". This example doesn't even apply here. The soldiers on both sides were armed, uniformed, and sustained by their respective military infrastructures. And I assure you that the American civil war was not caused by too many people having guns. LOL. If you are going to site American history, at least get your facts straight.

[SoulReaver]

If you are going to site American history, at least get your facts straight.

*Cite


Your welcome. I just had to. :)

[Sirc]

*Cite


Your welcome. I just had to. :)

* Sirc shoots SoulReaver for being a smartarse *

:P:D

[JIMINATOR]

And I assure you that the American civil war was not caused by too many people having guns.
no, but the revolutionary war was. that is where the whole right to bear arms concept came from, so that an armed citizenry could rise up against a corrupt government.

but like i say, i am not for or against guns. they are not for me. many families that have them know pain. the little study i quoted was interesting, but it probably doesn't mean anything because it can't quantify the the bloodless situations in which guns have helped, nor do the numbers indicate what percentage of gun owners they represent. Most gun owners are like the police, where they are never involved in a situation that requires them to use the gun.

[Sirc]

no, but the revolutionary war was. that is where the whole right to bear arms concept came from, so that an armed citizenry could rise up against a corrupt government.

Erm, are you seriously saying that the Revolutionary War was a result of too many people having guns? That was the "cause" of the war? No. It wasn't. Again, that was a war, with uniforms, backed (mostly) by a military infastructure. Although the infrastructure was pretty weak at that point. Granted, many of the revolutionaries were using their own guns. And actual uniforms were pretty scarce. At that point we were pretty much a rag-tag gorilla warfare force, shooting from the cover of trees while the Brits marched in their perfect lines. Good for us, bad for them. :)

For God's sake I wish everyone would stop referring to events that happened 200 years ago in American history when referring to gun ownership. EVERYONE had guns back then. If you planned to eat, you hunted. I suppose some people lived in the heart of the relatively small cities in that period and may have had access to a butcher shop, but generally owning a gun was a matter of basic survival. Quit blaming the American wars on gun ownership.

And yes, we learned a valuable lesson. A man with a gun is a American citizen, and unarmed man was an British subject. We haven't forgotten that lesson, and I hope we never will.

[JIMINATOR]

Erm, are you seriously saying that the Revolutionary War was a result of too many people having guns?
the point was that it initially was not an organized military organization as such. it was a popular uprising.


At that point we were pretty much a rag-tag gorilla warfare force, shooting from the cover of trees
Terrorist tactics??!?!? OMG!!!!

[OUTLAWS CHICO]

OK here is a good reason to arm yourself .
When I was in school ,I had gotten a bad cut on my foot ,so I had to stay home from school to keep it elevated. My family lives in the country and at the time we would go off and leave the house at the same time evry day and get home at he same time every day .6 inmates from a prison had escaped , The prison was about 10 miles away. So I stayed in the house that day. My dog usually stayed on the front porch during the day but this day he was in the house with me. I heard a noise at the back door and the dog started barking. I looked outside and saw no one but to be safe I grabbed a 12 guage shotty (no knife lol ) and went out the safest way the front door. I hopped around to the back and there was a convict on the back steps I was 16 at the time and had been schooled by my father on handling guns . I told the man to lay down but instead he came at me. I shot him , he was coming at me fast so I didn't have time to brace myself and fell down from the recoil ,which broke open some of my stitches from the cut the day before. The man got back up and came at me again I shot him again . After he got up the second time he ran away .Thru the ordeal I was scared for my life. And for years after had several nightmares of that day. The man I shot I found out later had been locked up for several violent crimes.
I am a grandfather and when I think my grandson is old enough I will teach him about guns may god look over him and keep him from having to go thru what I went thru. But beeing able to protect yourself cannot IMO be wrong.
The next time I actually almost had to use a gun was when A young man ( doper ) came to my house with a car of 4 young men and had guns with them. we had had an altercation earlier And he lost. His dad was the sheriiff at the time and he thought he could do as he pleased. When he showed up we had gotten a call from a friend of mine to warn us he had guns.
my father and I showed them our guns first and they never pulled theirs.Thank god for that. But yes a dog helps but in certain cases you may need a gun also learning self defense relly helps too. Most policemen will say no to guns but My wife called 911 when A young man had a pipe in our carpet store and coming at her and the operator said to her " can you hold please". I only wish she had a gun cause while she was on hold she called me on the cell phone as she was trying to scare the robber away. When she finally got him out the store by swinging a metal rod from one of our racks he tried to steal things out of our truck . After he had gone from the store 911 called her back 10 minutes had past and asked her if she still needed assistance. To protect yea right. Try calling 911 lol.

[JIMINATOR]

see, by having a gun as a kid you missed out on the opportunity to experience the joys of manlove....

ok, sorry, but i just had to... :)

what I want to know is how someone got shot twice with a 12-guage and then managed to run away....

[Sirc]

the point was that it initially was not an organized military organization as such. it was a popular uprising.


Terrorist tactics??!?!? OMG!!!!

Erm, do you have a legitimate point to make here that has anything to do with me, or anyone else, owning guns or are you just ****ing around?

Actually it was somewhat organized. People were told where to go and who to shoot by a small central military command structure. The fact that many of them decided to go home and tend their farms instead of fight was beside the point. Things did get more organized as time went on. Hell, we won after all. George got our act together.

Gorilla warfare is not terrorist tactics. Terrorists randomly kill innocents to cause panic and instability. I'm pretty sure that shooting the Brits in their nice bright red military uniforms wasn't a terrorist act. And shooting from behind a tree instead of in plain sight was just common sense no matter how cowardly and frustrating the Brits considered the tactic to be.

[Sirc]

see, by having a gun as a kid you missed out on the opportunity to experience the joys of manlove....

ok, sorry, but i just had to... :)

what I want to know is how someone got shot twice with a 12-guage and then managed to run away....

Cause Chico is a heck of a lot more deadly with a knife then a single-barrel shotty. Trust me. :P

Meh, a scared kid who probably nearly missed on the first shot, got knocked on his butt and fired again while he was down. It could happen depending on where the the guy was hit. Besides, adreneline (sp) can help you take a lickin and keep on tickin - at least for a little while.

[OUTLAWS CHICO]

well a 12 guage shotgun on your hip and I actually hit him in his shoulder. When I saw the blood coming out of my foot at first I thought I had shot my foot lol . When the gun went off I didn't mean to pull the trigger it was more survival than anything. My brother who was 8 at the time had also loaded the gun with bird shot.I had believed there was 00 buckshot in the gun and was totally terrified that the man was alive much less running. To top it off we had been to see a movie that had a kilkler that kept getting shot but kept coming so that didn't help.

[Wiper]

No, I'm not stretching it out of proportions. A lot of armed people may not make an army, but they can make a formidable and overwhelming resistance.

The American civil war was fought by two organized armies, not "a lot of armed people". This example doesn't even apply here. The soldiers on both sides were armed, uniformed, and sustained by their respective military infrastructures. And I assure you that the American civil war was not caused by too many people having guns. LOL. If you are going to site American history, at least get your facts straight.

I'm not saying it was caused but when people got guns (civilians) it's much easier to got involved with the war-thing. Just don't c people running with a pitchfork making a war.