Secret Service Going Too Far?

[Caged Anger]

http://wired.com/news/wireservice/0,71953-0.html?tw=wn_index_5

wow....do they even investigate these things before they go and actually see who they are dealing with?

[NastyDawg]

Nope they should check this stuff, 14 year old can kill just as easy, like the Pres or not they need to check all this out. Aww it brought tears to her eyes, to damn bad, there are other ways to protest than placing pictures of are leaders and threatening them with death.

[JIMINATOR]

at least they didn't use the broken broomstick handle on her.... :thumbs:

[EXEcution]

at least they didn't use the broken broomstick handle on her.... :thumbs:
:rofl: Jim.

On Wired's front page the short article summary calls the girl a "14-year old pacifist." I also like where the girl describes herself as "politically passionate". How about being morally passionate and intelligent? And the added extra of not posting deaths threats (ridiculous or not) on her "myspace". Oops those must have slipped her mind when she took her freedom of speech too far. There is no way that a teenager with such an extremist against the President has any clue what politics are all about. Maybe instead of molecular biology she should be taking more political science courses.

There is no logical way to justify her actions so the SS had to investigate based upon given facts. The anonymity of the internet makes it very difficult to draw conclusive evidence against an individual. She could have been a 40 year old man for all they knew.

[Sirc]

There is no logical way to justify her actions so the SS had to investigate based upon given facts. The anonymity of the internet makes it very difficult to draw conclusive evidence against an individual. She could have been a 40 year old man for all they knew.

Yeah. The SS went to her high school freshman class to interogate a 40 year old man.

Comon. She's clearly a threat to national security. You can't ignore stuff like this. If this had been allowed to continue she may have convinced her whole cheerleading squad to storm the Whitehouse and inflict major pom-pom damage.

Thank God we're giving up our rights to basic freedoms, like freedom of speech, if for no other reason than to prevent this sort of national threat from occuring again. Let's learn from Islam's lead here. You DON'T create images of the prophet Mohammad, and you DON'T create images of His Holiness Bush with a dagger stuck in his hand with a caption reading "Kill Bush".

This girl should should be tortured and killed for her actions. And then her entire family should be killed, Bush willing.

Bush is great and almighty. May he continue to give us to strength to fight these infidels.

[JIMINATOR]

ok, granted, bush is a moron and all that, but still, the things they had to
figure out are:

was there a chance someone hacked their wireless network
did she hand out her password
did she post it for someone
did she post the stuff herself

it looks all cut and dried from our view point, but they have to investigate these things. and fear and intimidation make for pretty effective interrogation techniques.

[OUTLAWS CHICO]

Well to stop and think about it ,When I was a young boy the USA didn't dare say anything that could put you as a communist. The president was a man to be respected. The flag was to be respected. The military was to be respected.Your parents were also respected.
Now young kids,teens and young adults want you to give them respect but don't feel they need to respect anyone. Times have changed and as far as I can see not for the better.Bush is in a position that I would not like to have.He has to decide if people die or live. If you think it is easy I feel for you , wake up to the real world. People all over the world want to kill, they want nuclear weapons they want to make the world a terrible place. I for one would like to see everyone in the world live to enjoy life. If I knew what to do or say to the people who are causing death to make them stop I would do it in a heart beat. I feel that the teen done wrong ( kill the president ) Threatening to kill is against the law isn't it ? So what if they made her cry maybe a couple of weeks of looking at the dead people that the president had to look at from the twin towers might change her mind. Maybe have her go and talk to the children of innocent civilians that died there ,Ask them if Bush is a moron. If I had been president my heart would have hurt so bad I would have probably went in harder than he did. Put yourself in Bushes shoes and ask yourself how hard is it to send young men and women over to Iraq and know they probably will not come back.

[JIMINATOR]

ok, since you brought it up, what do the twin towers have to do with iraq? answer - nothing. those were not iraqi citizens on those planes, neither were they trained in iraq. yes, it is sad that we are sending people over to die in iraq. what is worse is that they are dying for nothing. saddam hated al-qaida. by getting rid of him we made it safe for them to start recruiting in iraq. the iraqis hate us being there. the soldiers hate being there, except for the 60-120 that go home every month in caskets. what is our exit strategy? when the war started they were saying it would take 6 months. Now they are saying 2010. Leaked reports all pretty much call the effort a failure. How would you feel if your brother or kids were sent over to die in Iraq for pretty much no reason at all. Yeah, you can say that Saddam was a bad man, but there are lots of bad men across the world and we pretty much don't give a damn about them at all.

[Die Hard]

:watchmovi

[Wiper]

:D @ Sirc...

Was exactly my thought, the Americans should be proud at the secret service.

And I would say 1-0 for the terrorists, one huge attack was necessairy to create fear amongst the population. They made the US so crazy that they can't think strait anymore about real treats and just fighting against the air (ow and making sure that ur rights will be gone in a few months). Time they deliver some valium at the White house :thumbs:

[Goober]

Under TITLE 18 (http://usgovinfo.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/871.shtml) it is a federal crime to threaten the president. The Secret Service investigates over 1500 threats a year. Not just against Bush but every president. This little girl just made the papers over it, most don't. I see some folks are whining because they didn't wait until she got home to talk to her. Oh sure, a threat is made, but we'll wait until it's convenient for you to talk. Bull crap. They found the threat, asked questions, went away. That's what they do, and always have done. This action has nothing to do with todays politics or terrorist issues.

[Wiper]

This action has nothing to do with todays politics or terrorist issues.


:rolleyes:

[Caged Anger]

Under TITLE 18 (http://usgovinfo.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/871.shtml) it is a federal crime to threaten the president. The Secret Service investigates over 1500 threats a year. Not just against Bush but every president. This little girl just made the papers over it, most don't. I see some folks are whining because they didn't wait until she got home to talk to her. Oh sure, a threat is made, but we'll wait until it's convenient for you to talk. Bull crap. They found the threat, asked questions, went away. That's what they do, and always have done. This action has nothing to do with todays politics or terrorist issues.

heh, suppose thats true goob, well said

[Nitro]

Lord Bush, my lord, given to me by God, protect me and I would yet receive a long life
you have rescued America out of its deepest need, to you I owe my daily bread
Lord Bush, my lord, my belief, my light
Lord Bush my lord, you would leave me not

[Goober]

Lord Bush, my lord, given to me by God, protect me and I would yet receive a long life
you have rescued America out of its deepest need, to you I owe my daily bread
Lord Bush, my lord, my belief, my light
Lord Bush my lord, you would leave me not


So now you are misquoting a prayer of the children of Germany. I would like to know why you think we bow down to our president. He is not like a king, nor a god. He is a man, who in 2 years will be replaced by another man.
I forget Nitro, what country do you live in?

[Nitro]

I live in reality.

[Goober]

I live in reality.



Figures....ask a simple question and get a dodge. It's easy to make blanket accusations, comparisons and such. All I'm asking for is reasons for your statements. Or are you like some of the youth (and adults) who just mouth their emotions.

You act like this sort of thing just started under the Bush administration. Like it's never happened before. You're reality isn't even this dimension.


Let me give you a little American history.

We went through a similar thing back in the 40's when Senator Joseph McCarthy went on a witch hunt for communists. This was a much worse flaunt of the Bill of rights than what is going on now.


J. Edgar Hoover, now there's a man who had no respect for your rights. Read up on him and see the sweet little things he used to do.

I'll give him credit for not being for the Japanese internment in California during WWII.

You're turn for a rebuttal, I'll be back from work this evening to read your response

[Mad Fox]

American History is full of times when the CONSTITUTION was ignored. But the great aspect about such a poweerful document is that it is hard to escape its powerful word. The president's policies may be invioloation of the constitution but ive it time. The Supreme Court may not have abstract review but when the right person's rights are infringed upon it will be brought before the court and changed.

I have faith in the American government, constitution and politics.

[Nitro]

I never even mentioned anything Bush or his administration did. I didn't realize it sounded as if I was a Bush-bashing liberal democrat because that I am not, never was, and never will be. I know history quite well and know what went on in the past.

I'm a pacifist who believes that anyone that belives murdering people is a moral and good way to attain freedom is guided by an extremely evil force. I don't understand how people can back a policy, no matter what point in history, that backs the murder of peoples.

I have an open mind and accept the truth, even though it is one that many will not accept becuase it is so dark, so evil, so obscene that they rather believe the disinformation that is spouted out to them. Ignorance is bliss for them, but not for me.

I love freedom. The founding fathers loved freedom. When there are corrupt and evil people governing your homeland, revolution is what must be done. This could be a bloodless coup for the pacifists. Revolution is the only reason we are not under the rule of the British in this great country.

There have been many in the history of the world that displayed themselves are great people who were working for the people, but in reality, many of them worked directly against the will of the people and had their own sick and evil motives.


People are elected into offices in the government to serve us, not the other way around. I have no desire to drop names or speific facts because I am smarter than that and know that these days, with the near-complete shredding of the constitution and the bill of rights being sh!tted upon like never before (outside of martial law), you do not have the freedom to say what you want to say, unless you speak in cryptic riddles, which is the only way many things have lived through the test of time. As our current peace-loving ruler said talking about the US Constitution at a meeting concerning the "Patriot" Act: "It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"

Your turn.

[EXEcution]

I never even mentioned anything Bush or his administration did. I didn't realize it sounded as if I was a Bush-bashing liberal democrat because that I am not, never was, and never will be. I know history quite well and know what went on in the past.

I'm a pacifist who believes that anyone that belives murdering people is a moral and good way to attain freedom is guided by an extremely evil force. I don't understand how people can back a policy, no matter what point in history, that backs the murder of peoples.

I have an open mind and accept the truth, even though it is one that many will not accept becuase it is so dark, so evil, so obscene that they rather believe the disinformation that is spouted out to them. Ignorance is bliss for them, but not for me.

I love freedom. The founding fathers loved freedom. When there are corrupt and evil people governing your homeland, revolution is what must be done. This could be a bloodless coup for the pacifists. Revolution is the only reason we are not under the rule of the British in this great country.

There have been many in the history of the world that displayed themselves are great people who were working for the people, but in reality, many of them worked directly against the will of the people and had their own sick and evil motives.


People are elected into offices in the government to serve us, not the other way around. I have no desire to drop names or speific facts because I am smarter than that and know that these days, with the near-complete shredding of the constitution and the bill of rights being sh!tted upon like never before (outside of martial law), you do not have the freedom to say what you want to say, unless you speak in cryptic riddles, which is the only way many things have lived through the test of time. As our current peace-loving ruler said talking about the US Constitution at a meeting concerning the "Patriot" Act: "It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"

Your turn.
Congrats, you're a pacifict. Why not join the Pacifist party? http://www.uspacifistparty.org/ I did research on them for a gov paper and found out some interesting things, maybe if you become an active participant and wait several years then you could run as a write-in candidate for the Presidency or perhaps the House or Senate. Assuming that you are a U.S. citizen and have lived here for most of your life.

Next. Define what you mean by truth. What kind of truth is it? Moral perhaps? Ok well then if you accept the fact that the killing of innocent people is real then you are bound to accept that some sort of punishment must exist for these evils. You also should understand that although our Constitution has withstood the test of time it did so by adopting the amendment process. Change has to be made in order for the Constitution to be seen as practical in regards to the here and now.

[Nitro]

Congrats, you're a pacifict. Why not join the Pacifist party? http://www.uspacifistparty.org/ I did research on them for a gov paper and found out some interesting things, maybe if you become an active participant and wait several years then you could run as a write-in candidate for the Presidency or perhaps the House or Senate. Assuming that you are a U.S. citizen and have lived here for most of your life.

They seem to have a great vision but one that will not happen until after the next planetary extinction. Only 100,000 pacifists in America...how sad. I'm not a dumb pacifist though. I'd shoot your ass ifyou broke into my home...I would shoot in a non-critical area though and if you happened to die, well, it wasn't my intention so no harm done.

[FUS1ON]

Original Question: Secret Service Going Too Far?

Answer: Hell no! Freedom of speech is one thing, but death threats against anyone and especailly the President will bring the attention of the authorities. The little girl just learned a life lesson that her parents failed to teach her, she was made an example of and now her parents are mad because their failure to properly teach their daughter was shown to the world. I guess they learned a lesson too. This is nothing more than further proof that today's parents do not pay close enough attention to what their children do in their spare time.

BTW I fixed the thread title.

[BobtheCkroach]

Original Question: Secret Service Going Too Far?

Answer: Hell no! Freedom of speech is one thing, but death threats against anyone and especailly the President will bring the attention of the authorities. The little girl just learned a life lesson that her parents failed to teach her, she was made an example of and now her parents are mad because their failure the properly teach their daughter was shown to the world. I guess they learned a lesson too. This is nothing more than further proof that today's parents do not pay close enough attention to what their children do in their spare time.

Where's the "applaud" smiley?

Well said.

[EXEcution]

They seem to have a great vision but one that will not happen until after the next planetary extinction. Only 100,000 pacifists in America...how sad. I'm not a dumb pacifist though. I'd shoot your ass ifyou broke into my home...I would shoot in a non-critical area though and if you happened to die, well, it wasn't my intention so no harm done.
Since when is owning a gun a sign of pacifism?

[Nitro]

Since when is owning a gun a sign of pacifism?
There's different levels of pacifism. Absolutes suck. :P

[EXEcution]

I perfer the level where you just admit that killing people is human nature and that people don't necessarily have to get pleasure out of doing it.

[Wiper]

......starting to end up like all those other "USA" threads :worldssma

[EXEcution]

......starting to end up like all those other "USA" threads :worldssma
What's wrong with the other "USA" threads? So far there have been no abusive remarks or flaming or cursing. We can argue about anything we want in the OT forums. This issue doesn't have to concern just the US, I'm sure there have been similar cases in other countries where a death threat was made and the person who made it had to suffer the consequences.

In my opinion, discussing these political issues here, where most contributing members make a very rational argument, is more important that talking about "Secrets in the Sam World". Eventually this thread will live out it's short lifespan and we'll have another news topic to address and discuss.

And if by any and all means you have anything to contribute other than making some random general assumption that all the "USA" threads end up the same way please do so. If not then why post anything at all.

[Nitro]

Exe has those occasional posts that are worth something and that's one of them. Hooray ExE!

[EXEcution]

Exe has those occasional posts that are worth something and that's one of them. Hooray ExE!
Would you say that it's worth an e-hug? :babe:

[Wiper]

Like we didn't see all this before in different sentences...

[JIMINATOR]

Would you say that it's worth an e-hug? :babe:
definately an e-bendover!

[Die Hard]

Would you say that it's worth an e-hug? :babe:I'd say it's worth an E-Shag. Oh yeah baby...........

[Nitro]

I'd say it's worth an E-Shag. Oh yeah baby...........
I concur!

[Goober]

I never even mentioned anything Bush or his administration did. I didn't realize it sounded as if I was a Bush-bashing liberal democrat because that I am not, never was, and never will be. I know history quite well and know what went on in the past.


Sorry, it was that little song you posted that looked like a comparison of Hitler to Bush that gave the impression of Bush-bashing.

Glad you know your history, it's what is supposed to keep us from screwing up twice in a row. Unfortunately most of the folks in Washington think that you can do the same thing several times and that eventually you will have a different result.....won't happen.
Like Afganistan, you know the Russians are laughing their ass off at us over that one.

Sorry Shogun, I know it's a bend from the original title, So I'll get back on it.
Stupid girl, I've told my daughters a thousand times, Think before you put anything in writing in Cyberspace. You never know who will see it.

Caught their butts doing something they shouldn't have more than once that way....

[Caged Anger]

"Like Afganistan, you know the Russians are laughing their ass off at us over that one"

what do you mean goob?

[Die Hard]

Tell me you're not serious Caged?

[Mad Fox]

Like Afganistan, you know the Russians are laughing their ass off at us over that one.




Goober I am disturbed by such an analogy. First of all it was the Soviet union which was a failling state. The soviets were supporting the Afghan Marxist Party and were fighting Mujahideen. The Soviets were supporting a party not trying to stablize a nation. The reason the Soviets lost was that they were in an economic state of failure. I think the American situatuion ison a totally differernt scale.

[Die Hard]

The Russians lost because they underestimated the Afghan's abilty to fight. No other reason.

[Sirc]

She wrote "Kill Bush", and not "I'm going to kill Bush". Subtle difference. One is a statement, the other is a statement with intent. It was an artistic expression from a 13 year old girl who felt helpless and needed to vent in the only way she could.

The thing that scares me is that expressions of outrage and frustration in a picture can cause the government to take this sort of action. Writing two simple words on a picture. It's not right regardless of what the law says. It directly conflicts with the 1st amendment of the Constitution.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Bush has been a bane to this country. He's a religious extremist and a control freak. His appointments to the Supreme Court are going to hurt this country long after he has left office. His foreign policy has destroyed our credibility as a nation. His military aggression has cost us many lives in Iraq for no apparent reason. And now that we are so commited militarily to the Middle East, we can't respond to true threats like those coming from North Korea.

It's all a bunch of bullshit.

[DiTomasso]

[QUOTE=Sirc
It's all a bunch of bullshit.[/QUOTE]

I think its Bushit :D

[EXEcution]

Well if I saw a picture online that said "Kill EXE" with my face being stabbed with a dagger I'd still be pretty worried. If it said "I am going to kill EXE" I'd be even m ore worried. Both statements still inspire a kind of uncertanty about a person's true intent.

[Sirc]

Well if I saw a picture online that said "Kill EXE" with my face being stabbed with a dagger I'd still be pretty worried. If it said "I am going to kill EXE" I'd be even m ore worried. Both statements still inspire a kind of uncertanty about a person's true intent.

Hand, not face.

[EXEcution]

Hand, not face.
I'd rather not get stabbed in either part.

[Sirc]

I'd rather not get stabbed in either part.

You're missing the symbolism. She was expressing her distaste for what Bush is "offering" this country.

[Wiper]

Well if I saw a picture online that said "Kill EXE" with my face being stabbed with a dagger I'd still be pretty worried. If it said "I am going to kill EXE" I'd be even m ore worried. .

Aint that the hole purpose of a Deathmatch?

[Goober]

The Russians lost because they underestimated the Afghan's abilty to fight. No other reason.

That's the point I was trying to get across. The Soviet Union (my bad) were there for 10 years without any success. They had the power and the technology, the Afghans had British 303 Rifles and other leftovers from WW1 to start with. Then we (the US) started giving them better toys. Now I'm sure they're getting better toys from elsewhere to shoot at us with.

[EXEcution]

Aint that the hole purpose of a Deathmatch?
No.

And Sirc daggers stabbing body parts is not the kind of symbolism I personally care for. There are much better ways to symbolize that a person is dissatisfied with the current administration.

[Sirc]

No.

And Sirc daggers stabbing body parts is not the kind of symbolism I personally care for. There are much better ways to symbolize that a person is dissatisfied with the current administration.

It was a drawing. It was an emotion released thorough a peaceful medium. It doesn't matter whether you liked it or not. People have created a lot more disturbing images than this.

The point is, a 13 year old girl released her frustration and anger and confusion with the world by making a drawing. That's a pretty well adjusted and balanced reaction to the atrocities that are happening in the world today. She didn't cut herself, she didn't kill her family, she didn't walk through her school firing an automatic weapon. She made a drawing to express how she felt. And she showed it to her friends on MySpace.

And the next damn thing that happened was having the SS come into her school and yank her out of her class in front of everyone and interrogate her without even contacting her parents. Well I certainly hope she's learned her lesson. She lives in a police state, and big brother is watching, and he will come for you if you express ideas that go against the state.

I certainly hope she has learned to be a better American citizen because of her anti-social and anti-goverment behavior, and has learned the consequences of expressing herself in such a radical manner.

Jeezus, WTF is the matter with you people? If they had done that to my child then there would be quite a different story in the headlines.

[EXEcution]

Sure a picture is good to show to your friends but when it comes to posting on the WORLD WIDE WEB for EVERYONE to see then it's a somewhat different story. It's not a matter of national security but it's the kind of thing that you shouldn't go around posting on the web. The last person that you would want to express your undying hatred upon, when you're only a teenager, would probably be the President of the United States. Nowadays kids think that they can get away with almost anything, that needs to change.

It's really a moral crisis more than a political crisis.

[Sirc]

Sure a picture is good to show to your friends but when it comes to posting on the WORLD WIDE WEB for EVERYONE to see then it's a somewhat different story. It's not a matter of national security but it's the kind of thing that you shouldn't go around posting on the web. The last person that you would want to express your undying hatred upon, when you're only a teenager, would probably be the President of the United States. Nowadays kids think that they can get away with almost anything, that needs to change.

It's really a moral crisis more than a political crisis.

"it's the kind of thing that you shouldn't go around posting on the web"

That is just so wrong in so many ways. The internet is all about free speech and free expression. It's all about not having any government involvement at all. No controls, no censorship, no fears.

You sound like such a good little sheep EXE. Seriously.

"The last person that you would want to express your undying hatred upon, when you're only a teenager, would probably be the President of the United States. Nowadays kids think that they can get away with almost anything, that needs to change."

Praise the US government. It is our hope and salvation. It is the truth, and we shall fashion our lives and our thoughts as our goverment wishes, for there in lies our reclamation.



I am truly saddened, and appalled, by some of the comments in this thread. And I'm scared now. Not by the government, but by the ever-growing flock of sheep that our goverment is creating. I'm especially shocked by the comments of some of the older people who should know better.


EDIT:

"It's really a moral crisis more than a political crisis."

MORAL? What she did was immoral? Since when was free speech immoral? Since when was free expression immoral? How long will his young girl have nightmares because the government hit squad came after her for expressing her opinions? How long will she live in fear now of saying anything that goes against the government?

[Nitro]

+1 rep points for SIRC

From the Declaration of Indepedence...see anything familiar?

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

In every stage of these Oppressions we have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble Terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury. A Prince, whose Character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the Ruler of a free People.


History repeats itself time and time again and it is truly sad that our human race never learns from its mistakes.

Tyrannical Fascism rules doesn't it?

[EXEcution]

"it's the kind of thing that you shouldn't go around posting on the web"

That is just so wrong in so many ways. The internet is all about free speech and free expression. It's all about not having any government involvement at all. No controls, no censorship, no fears.
All I am saying is that there are alternative means of taking advantage of our freedom of speech online. You can't go and do ANYTHING that your little heart desires. Like Goob said, there are things that he wouldn't let his kids do on the internet and there are things that I would not let my younger brother do on the internet as well. It's not all fun and games which seems to be your mentality.


You sound like such a good little sheep EXE. Seriously.
I am no more perfect than you or anyone else in the world. I have my views and I try my best to make them applicable to the real world.



"The last person that you would want to express your undying hatred upon, when you're only a teenager, would probably be the President of the United States. Nowadays kids think that they can get away with almost anything, that needs to change."

Praise the US government. It is our hope and salvation. It is the truth, and we shall fashion our lives and our thoughts as our goverment wishes, for there in lies our reclamation.

If you don't like our government so much why not move to another country that will suit you better in terms of policy making? But unless you want to move to a third world country I can assure you that most other governments will also condemn complete freedom of speech, moreso than the US. Governments exist for the purpose of setting limits on what we can and cannot do. They must also enforce those limits. Lets say for example that this girls web site began a chain reaction and soon there would be thousands of myspace pages with "Kill Bush" agitprop. In your opinion would this be good or bad?

If more people started to think like you and wanted Bush to resign immidiately or face some horrible consequence how would that make our actions any different from Bush sending troops to die in Iraq. No President has ever been perfect throughout the course of US history. You must understand that there has been a growing distrust for politicians ever since the Nixon administration and the Vietnam War. If we continue to uphold this view and believe that nothing good can come from a government then we would be essentially lost. Anarchy would give way to order and the mentality of the people would gradually slip towards nihilism. Some people believe that this is already occuring. We are at odds with the people who are trying their best to make our lives better. They are all qualified to do their jobs one way or another just as you are qualified to do yours.

My question is that if we cannot trust our country's leaders then who is left?

[Bingo]

Here's the real problem - and to me it's the same reason our Country is a constant target for criticism. It's the same reason ANY President, much less one such as Bush who is in office during an extremely difficult time, is also a constant target for criticism.

You are absolutely 100% damned if you do and absolutely 100% damned if you don't.

Someone posts pic saying 'Kill XXX'. XXX being anything you want it to be.

Someone sees it. Says "Oh gosh. It's just a silly posting on a webpage/poster/school newspaper/billboard/NY Times"

2 weeks later that person kills XXX. What do you think is going to be the first thing that happens? Everyone jumps up and says "OH MY GOD YOU HAD WARNINGS WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU NOW SOMEONE IS DEAD!"

C'mon. You absolutely know that would be the case.

So let's go the other way. Someone sees it, and it gets investigated. What's next? This thread.

You are totally damned if you do and damned if you don't.

The 9/11 attacks. Guess what? People are screaming left and right that there was advance notice and no one did anything.

There may be things I disagree with Bush on, but for the most part it boils down to one thing for me:
I know I damn sure wouldn't want that job. It is the epitome of a "You can't win" situation.

Anyways, just my thoughts. It's a no-win. You get nailed if you investigate some poor innocent person or you get nailed when you don't investigate the one you THOUGHT was innocent.

Bingo

[OUTLAWS Tip]

:hmmm:

Something with the "Kill Bush" statement in it is not supported by any document from the US government. I am not allowed to threaten anyone, let alone our president.

Death threats are not included with our rights of free speech and I don't care who says it.

[Nitro]

"I am truly saddened, and appalled, by some of the comments in this thread. And I'm scared now. Not by the government, but by the ever-growing flock of sheep that our goverment is creating. I'm especially shocked by the comments of some of the older people who should know better."

Yes SIRC, but I'm not shocked because I know the reasons why people are thinking in this state of mind but I would be locked up in Guantanamo if I said the reasons. What a phucked up time we live in. Only 2 more years in this obscene gloryhole.

[EXEcution]

Planning on moving Nitro?

[JIMINATOR]

If you don't like xxxxx why not move
franky i find it really annoying any time i see crap like this. the only people that have the true right to say this are native americans. the basis that our country was founded on was free speech and debate. the most american thing anyone can do is to bring up all of these points and examine them. we can put our heads in the sand, but then we will only be like so many other third world countries.

[Bingo]

Only 2 more years in this obscene gloryhole.

So I'm curious. Since you think our country is so damned awful and you can't wait till yer two years is up so you can get out - where are you going to?

[EXEcution]

franky i find it really annoying any time i see crap like this. the only people that have the true right to say this are native americans. the basis that our country was founded on was free speech and debate. the most american thing anyone can do is to bring up all of these points and examine them. we can put our heads in the sand, but then we will only be like so many other third world countries.
I just don't see any other options for a person who rejects the ways of our government. If they feel that nothing can be done to make it better then they either continue living out their lives in complete despair or move somewhere that suits them better in terms of a "fair government". I also justified that comment by saying that no matter where you go you will not have limitless freedom of speech.

[Nitro]

So I'm curious. Since you think our country is so damned awful and you can't wait till yer two years is up so you can get out - where are you going to?
Cunning indeed! This is cyberspace, sharing information like that is not smart. This topic makes for some great discussion though.

[Sirc]

All I am saying is that there are alternative means of taking advantage of our freedom of speech online. You can't go and do ANYTHING that your little heart desires. Like Goob said, there are things that he wouldn't let his kids do on the internet and there are things that I would not let my younger brother do on the internet as well. It's not all fun and games which seems to be your mentality.


I am no more perfect than you or anyone else in the world. I have my views and I try my best to make them applicable to the real world.




If you don't like our government so much why not move to another country that will suit you better in terms of policy making? But unless you want to move to a third world country I can assure you that most other governments will also condemn complete freedom of speech, moreso than the US. Governments exist for the purpose of setting limits on what we can and cannot do. They must also enforce those limits. Lets say for example that this girls web site began a chain reaction and soon there would be thousands of myspace pages with "Kill Bush" agitprop. In your opinion would this be good or bad?

If more people started to think like you and wanted Bush to resign immidiately or face some horrible consequence how would that make our actions any different from Bush sending troops to die in Iraq. No President has ever been perfect throughout the course of US history. You must understand that there has been a growing distrust for politicians ever since the Nixon administration and the Vietnam War. If we continue to uphold this view and believe that nothing good can come from a government then we would be essentially lost. Anarchy would give way to order and the mentality of the people would gradually slip towards nihilism. Some people believe that this is already occuring. We are at odds with the people who are trying their best to make our lives better. They are all qualified to do their jobs one way or another just as you are qualified to do yours.

My question is that if we cannot trust our country's leaders then who is left?

Yes, you CAN say anything your heart desires on the internet. That's the beauty of it, and that's the purpose of it. Goober is free to raise his kids as he wishes. I would never try to intervene. And I am free to raise my children as I wish, and nobody better try to intervene. As far as the "fun and games" are concerned, let's keep this issue in pespective. Go back and read the article. Think about what our government did to this 13 year old girl. They went into her school and they took her away, without her parent's consent, and they interrogated her for a picture she posted on the internet. Now remember, she did not threaten to kill anyone. Never the less, they kidnapped her and interrogated her.

No, this is not fun and games. She didn't mean it to be fun and games - she was expressing her true feelings. Don't make this sound like she was stealing a car and joy riding. Her actions were innocent and not harmful to anyone.

"If you don't like our government so much why not move to another country that will suit you better in terms of policy making? But unless you want to move to a third world country I can assure you that most other governments will also condemn complete freedom of speech, moreso than the US. Governments exist for the purpose of setting limits on what we can and cannot do. They must also enforce those limits."

My dad fought in WWII. If he heard you say that he would knock you across the room. I absolutely pray that you are NOT representative of young people today. You are certainly not representative of my kids. Let me make this clear to you:

THE US GOVERMENT HAS NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER TO CONDEMN COMPLETE FREEDOM OF SPEECH. CONDEMNING FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF OUR 1ST AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

Can our government create laws? Of course. Laws are necessary. AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

Am I getting through to you at all?


"Lets say for example that this girls web site began a chain reaction and soon there would be thousands of myspace pages with "Kill Bush" agitprop. In your opinion would this be good or bad?"

Then it would be time to change the government. Here's a clue. You don't have to accept the way things are. I know that's a tough concept for you, but it's true.

Stop spouting propaganda at me EXE and start thinking for yourself. Or you're gonna end up in a nice tasty cracker called "Soylent Green".

[EXEcution]

Yes I am sure that if you named a country Bingo would show up at your doorstep on the first morning of your "new life".

[Nitro]

This is what I think of you admins: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4635233826986620052

[Sirc]

:hmmm:

Something with the "Kill Bush" statement in it is not supported by any document from the US government. I am not allowed to threaten anyone, let alone our president.

Death threats are not included with our rights of free speech and I don't care who says it.

She didn't send a letter, or an email, or make a phone call to Bush saying she was going to kill him. She didn't tell anyone she was going to kill him. She made a drawing, and in that drawing there were the words "Kill Bush". She didn't threaten anyone. She made a statement through an artistic expression. That is not illegal.

[FUS1ON]

She didn't send a letter, or an email, or make a phone call to Bush saying she was going to kill him. She didn't tell anyone she was going to kill him. She made a drawing, and in that drawing there were the words "Kill Bush". She didn't threaten anyone. She made a statement through an artistic expression. That is not illegal.


Stop the spinning Sirc, you are making me dizzy bro.

[Sirc]

Stop the spinning Sirc, you are making me dizzy bro.

Was that a warning, or am I making you think?

[FUS1ON]

No, the girl was in the wrong and you are trying to protray her as totally innocent.

[Nitro]

Was that a warning, or am I making you think?
The side effects of the revelation of truth are comparable to that of a highly addictive drug.

[EXEcution]

Yes, you CAN say anything your heart desires on the internet.
Ok let's throw the issue presented in the article aside.
How about me saying that I have about 20 credit card numbers that I am willing to share with you, or my hit-list, or the names and addresses of some young girls I found on myspace (mind you these are all examples and I do have such information on my HDD). That's not unconstitutional is it? I mean I'm free to divulge any kind of information that I want. How about if I said that tomorrow I am going to do something that would jeopardize your personal life and your career. These are all extreme examples but I think they go to show that I cannot and should not say anything my heart desires because some people have very dark desires.

I know morality and the kind of freedom that you are talking about resmbles that of an anarchist or nihilist. Their mentality is: I can do whatever I want since it will benefit me and only me. There is nothing to back that statement except selfish desires that arise from the actions of "free people".

The times have changed since WWII. Back then the U.S. was truly fighting for freedom and a true good. Now I am not so sure. There an numerous amounts of books and essays that deal with our current situation ranging from politics to entertainment. That's freedom of speech. People using written language to express their ideas through rational means. Pictures depicting violent acts against our President are AGITPROP! It's almost the same if I were to spraypaint the same image on the street.

I am thinking for myself. I choose not to vote, I choose not to bash our President, I choose not to go and fight in Iraq, and I choose not to do many other things. I never said that I liked or disliked our President because that would indicate that I am biased one way or another, I never claimed to be a Republican or a Democrat because that would have a similar effect. I am spouting thoughts, ideas, and opinions with very little bias.

[Sirc]

No, the girl was in the wrong and you are trying to protray her as totally innocent.

No, she wasn't wrong. And she is innocent. The Unites States Secret Service took a 13 year old girl's artistic impression of US and world events as she saw them, and they treated her as if she were some sort of terrorist and they handled her as such. Doesn't that concern you in the least little bit?

Honestly, this is yet another good reason to buy a gun while you can, because things are getting totally out of hand here. If the Secret Service came and yanked one of my children out of school without my knowldge for some stupid picture they had drawn and posted on the internet, I'd act on it.

The president of the United States cannot do whatever the hell he wants to, now matter how many times he says he can. He can kiss my ass. I'm still an American, and I still believe in what our country was founded on, and what our troops have died for in the past wars that we have fought. And you will not convince me otherwise.

[Bingo]

Cunning indeed! This is cyberspace, sharing information like that is not smart. This topic makes for some great discussion though.

Errrr, huh?? What the hell are you talking about?

[Bingo]

The president of the United States cannot do whatever the hell he wants to, now matter how many times he says he can.

What does the president have to do with this, beyond being the target of the threat?

People love to throw statements like that out. Making it sound like Bush came and dragged some poor girl out and stuck bamboo under her nails and all.

The Secret Service came and investigated a threat. That's it. End of story. There isn't any conspiracy. There wasn't anything done by Bush. Hell, he most likely didn't even know about it until someone started trying to spin it into a big deal.

It's the job of the secret service to investigate potential threats. And they did thier job. End of story. There isn't anything else to it. Seriously.

The other thing people love to forget is this:

We have freedom of speech in this country. It's a right granted to us by the Constitution.

HOWEVER - and this is the crucial part everyone forgets:

This right - and all the others - come with a responsibility.

We have the right to freedom of speech. We also bear the responsibility of that speech.

If I tell you that I am coming to your house to harm you in some fashion, and then I show up in the middle of the night I damn well had better be ready to get shot. And it would be entirely my fault. So was it a very responsible thing for me to say that? Should I jump up and down and tell you you had no right to react that way because I am allowed to say whatever I want?

This is no different. The girl in the story put her speech out there. She has to accept the consequences of that speech. In this case, the consequences were being checked out by the Secret Service.

It goes back to the old adage: I am not allowed to yell 'Fire' in a crowded theatre. Why? Because of the consequences. This is no different.

B

[FUS1ON]

Now damn it Bingo do not go interjecting logical thinking into this thread! :P

[EXEcution]

Bingo breaks it down very well. I can't agree more. Basically freedom doesn't come from freedom.

[Sirc]

What does the president have to do with this, beyond being the target of the threat?

Are you saying that the US is not at a different place with a different mentality then before BUSH came into office? Are you saying that the new Department of Homeland Security and the new freedoms that were given to various departments do not have an impact on our personal freedoms?

Now obviously, the events of 9-11 have changed things. But how should we react to that? By giving up some of our freedom? By letting our goverment take steps to remove our freedoms in the interest of national security? Or perhaps for their own interests in gaining more control? I, for one, reject that. I will not run scared, and I don't want to see the US change and be more controlled by the government "in my best interest".

This is absolutely all about Bush and his policies. This is about him overriding the Constitution and making his own rules. This is about him appointing ultra-conservative and controlling members of the Supreme Court. This is about him injecting his religion into American politics and foreign relations. This is all about President Bush being a control freak, both nationally and internationally.

And Bush and his policies is a major factor in why a 13 year old girl was seized from her high school class without her parents being notified and interrogated by the US Secret Service because of a silly picture she posted on her MySpace account.

There was no threat. Show me any evidence that this young girl intented, threatened, or conspired to kill the president. Again, I ask, WTF is wrong with you people?

This was a horrendous embarrasment to Americans. Yet again we further lose the respect of foreign countries because of Bush's policies of unconstitutional control.

[Sirc]

Now damn it Bingo do not go interjecting logical thinking into this thread! :P

Well some people are using logic. Others simply have blind faith in the government. ;)

[Sirc]

If I tell you that I am coming to your house to harm you in some fashion, and then I show up in the middle of the night I damn well had better be ready to get shot. And it would be entirely my fault.

If someone went to my child's school, and forcibly removed her and took her away without involving me, the parent, and took her to an undisclosed location and interrogated her, they better be ready to be shot. And it would be entirely their fault.

Yo, this is America. That shit doesn't happen. And if it starts happening, then guess what?

Ya know, this isn't some 35 year old guy with ties to a militant group and 150 guns and 10,000 rounds of ammo stored in his basement. Can we please use some common sense here?

[Caged Anger]

:watch: :watch: :watchmovi :watchmovi

didn't realize how cool a topic I started :)

[Sirc]

:watch: :watch: :watchmovi :watchmovi

didn't realize how cool a topic I started :)

Yeah, nice one.

Look out your window. See any black Suburbans?

[Mad Fox]

after reading the many posts since i was last here I found a disturbing idea that kept recurring through several posts. The idea that if you dont like the way that the Administration is running America than you should leave. The whole american is built on a distrust of government, a push for change, and a questioning of the leadership. A government for the people by the people and is some of those people feel the need to complain then it is fully within their rights to do so.

I am siding with the girl on this. She in no way made a real threat to the president's life. she has no plan to act on the idea or pursue it. I think that the Secret service made a mistake. We should look at it this way it was an expression of dicontent that was placed in a meduimed where it could be miinterpreted and misconstued and she was the victim.



** If you dont hear from me you will know the black suburbans took me away and I am being held against my right in a secret torture facility in Pakistan.**

[EXEcution]

It's not uncommon for parties to have opposing views on certain issues such as this one. Some of us will side with the girl while the others side against her. It's a perfect example of how a democracy or a republic works. One view can be seen as liberal while the other is more conservative. This sort of partisanship allows for us to continue questioning the legal and moral aspects of the issue and eventually we each either reach an agreement or put the issue aside for later. This seems genuinely American to me.

[JIMINATOR]

i'll sayz it aginz. you guys know i am all anti-bush. But all the same you can't create something like that and put it in a public spot. was it an overreaction against a page a little girl put up? yes. was it an overreaction against something that cropped up in the internet saying kill george? who the hell knows? thus the draconian measures. it's not like she was traumatized for life. she will get over it and as a bonus have some funny experiences to share with others in the future.

[T I K]

This is a very "healthy" and normal debate :thumbs: ! Better than some Pres. that admonishes discussion and debate because he says it aids terrorists pff :rolleyes: That so sounds more like condemnation and pure censorship of info to the American public, to me :thumbs: The balance of power and authority......lol imo, although thats no laughing matter !!

While I it wasn't totally obvious this girl was making a threat on GB, she did say "Kill Bush". That imo was wrong, or should i say in poor judgment on her part! If nothing else, statements of kill "anyone", could incite others into those said thoughts and actions of killing that said someone !!

What I dont see as right was the way the SS handled this situation. They should have informed her parents that they wish to question her and and also given and allowed her the right to have legal counsel.

But mind you all, with the new "Patriot Act" your rights or anyones rights as far the US government is concerned or as they say, "National Security" is concerned, those of your "former" personal rights were thrown out the window with that Act !! That Act, effectively mutes any and all rights, you may have had. And they call the shots on what will and can be blanketed by the terms "National Security" or "Homeland Security" ie. der homeland security !

And if that doesn't make you wonder and question your Govt.'s motives, ethics and jurisdiction and any likelihood of abuse then you are sheep.
Just as we have the suspected terrorists in detention in other undisclosed Countries, so they dont have to worry about Pesky American laws or the way they might treat those suspects !

And what really worries me is the lose of our freedom of speech, as it has come under full assault. Its chided, and admonished lmost to the point (blindly or not) that many american people and our Govt. and its leaders call any questioning or discourse, "un-American" !

And no I will not move to another country, because for now, untill Im thrown in jail or prison i can still voice my opinion.

Btw Exe, its alright to take sides.......If you ever wanted to, or desired to make a contribution to change, you will need too ;)

[OUTLAWS CHICO]

The girl found out she did wrong and removed her picture after her class informed her it was against federal law. When she removed the original post she knew she did wrong
Some of you people here sound like you can pick and choose which laws work for you.She was not harmed ,she was awoken to her actions = she won't do it again or will she ?
Nitro has 2 years, I guess left here in the US before he is done with what ever his task is. When he returns to where ever he is from I have a task for him = Threaten the government with a knife to the hand of the leader of that country. Let me know before hand in case I don't hear from you after you do it.
I am a NATIVE AMERICAN my grandfather and his grandfather died trying to protect themselves and their lands. The USA is what I call home. I do agree the the United States Government is not perfect. But I beleive our military is trying to help people in other countries. I have talked to people from other countries and feel for them and the way they have to live.
I will say this again ask yourself, how it would feel to be in Bushes shoes ?To know lives are in your hands. To know that if you keep all the US military in the US alot of lives in other countries will be taken! Rulers that have joy out of cutting off heads,hands and killing women and children with no regard whatsoever.
I have a grandson that I would love to see him be able to travel the world and see places that I never will. placeslikeEgypt,France,Germany,China,Australia,Lon don,and yes even Iraq,Iran,Itally.Hawaii. But the way the world is I can't see letting him out of our country because of people that are killing people in schools on planes .Blowing up towers with innocent women ,children,dads,uncles, and so forth.
I wish for peace in my country and all over the world .I want for my grandchild to know true freedom. But I will teach him to respect everyone and to listen and learn before he speaks.
No one in here likes the fact the little girl was scared by the SS. Fact is Bush probably didn't know it happened until days later, hell maybe even weeks.The parents and the SS should have been discussing the matter before the girl got home from school and then the girl questioned afterwards.
I know if I were her parent I would have been very surprised that my kid would have done such a thing and then my disapline to her would have been enough. My appoligies to the SS and the President for her distasteful show of disrespect to others would have been my embarrasement.

[JIMINATOR]

...Rulers that have joy out of cutting off heads,hands and killing women and children with no regard whatsoever.......because of people that are killing people in schools on planes .Blowing up towers with innocent women ,children,dads,uncles, and so forth.
chico man, come on. aside from 9/11, how many us citizens have died from terrorism? probably less than 100 yearly, much less if you don't count war zones. how many thousands of people die in traffic accidents every year? you have a much greater chance of dying every time you get in your car than you do by travelling the world. have you stopped driving your car? All this fear crap is just a means of manipulating the public that our rulers use to get what they want.

[OUTLAWS CHICO]

Well there sure have been alot of US citizens over seas that have been kidnapped and had their heads cut off with machetes, for all the world to see. Our government is not perfect but this young girl in other countries would be put to death for saying what she said here.
As an American Indian I never have trusted the government. Hey they murdered my grandfathers ,grandmothers, and most all of our tribe. for what land,They raped young children and our women.
But when I hear this young girl saying "kill Bush " the only thing that comes to mind is total stupidity and bad raising of the child.SHE DID WRONG.
Traffic ACCIDENTS key word accidents not intentional dismemberment.
Look at the reporters being kidnapped ,people over there that are civilians trying to help them and they get dead.
My brother (DOC) is in the military now.Lucky for him he is air force and might never see battle upclose. But fear for him getting hurt is on his families mind. I am not a person that fears much of anything but when it comes to my grandson I try to reduce the chance of harm for him. I want him to travel but with terrorist planning to blow up planes and buildings just because they have US people in them or near them. I fear that it might get even more terrible by the time he is a teen. He is a year and 3 months now I hope in his lifetime peace will come.Nuclear technology will be totaly gotten rid of.Dirty bombs a thing of the past.Iraq and Israel sitting together eating a meal together.Iran hosting the meal with no poison in the food (j/K). Nitro visiting the USA with joy to be here again. The world happy and content with the thought of life being grand.
But back to the subject (THE KID DID WRONG)

[T I K]

This was just a 14 year old girl btw :rolleyes: She made a poor judgment on what she posted ! But also to blame the parents specifically for this is also wrong imo ! But it does bring to mind, that it wasn't publicly reported (at least by what I've read) that the parents condemned it either.

[Nitro]

Y'all aren't thinking deep enough into it all. It is very scary on the dark side and few dare look into the evil abyss.

They want to own your soul and will get there by raping the corpse of the constitution to its death and that death is only a few short years away max. I won't be laughing at all the ignorance that turned everyone into neurological slaves part of a collective hive mind but instead I will be sitting in sorrow and sadness sicne I wished there was something that could have been done but the course of human events is recorded on the fabric of the space-time dimensions like a record and some things just have to happen in order to the greater good to happen.

[Bingo]

Y'all aren't thinking deep enough into it all. It is very scary on the dark side and few dare look into the evil abyss.

They want to own your soul and will get there by raping the corpse of the constitution to its death and that death is only a few short years away max. I won't be laughing at all the ignorance that turned everyone into neurological slaves part of a collective hive mind but instead I will be sitting in sorrow and sadness sicne I wished there was something that could have been done but the course of human events is recorded on the fabric of the space-time dimensions like a record and some things just have to happen in order to the greater good to happen.


http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c157/bingo969/Smilies/wtf.png :rofl:

[Die Hard]

The girl was unfairly treated and the whole thing was blown out of all proportion.

These took me 5 minutes to find on the net. I doubt none of the posters have been interrogated.

[BobtheCkroach]

I hesitate joining into this thread b/c I always regret it and it seems like I always leave angry at someone, but I'm gonna anyways. Everything I'm about to say is totally hypothetical. I'm not trying to piss anyone off but rather just make them think.

I think the argument that "she didn't directly threaten him...she just expressed herself" is total BS.

So how about this. Sirc or Nitro.

If I took a picture of your daughter (pretend if you don't actually have one) and drew onto it male genitals doing obscene things and wrote on the top "rape Sirc's Daughter" (put her actual name in there so that everyone knows EXACTLY who I mean, of course) and posted it on the internet...you're telling me that you'd be cool with that, b/c I'm not actually saying that I would do it, but just that it should be done? Rather than be pissed and try to find me and beat the Heck outta me, you would hop on that thread and applaud my use of free speech?

Are you telling me that if I had posted "Take down the twin towers with 2 planes" online sometime in the summer months of 2001 that I SHOULDN'T be questioned about my involvement into 9/11?

[EXEcution]

I can find anything if I look hard enough. Pictures are one thing (and they may come from an anonymous source) but a myspace page dedicated to this kind of crap is a bit outrageous.

[Sirc]

I hesitate joining into this thread b/c I always regret it and it seems like I always leave angry at someone, but I'm gonna anyways. Everything I'm about to say is totally hypothetical. I'm not trying to piss anyone off but rather just make them think.

I think the argument that "she didn't directly threaten him...she just expressed herself" is total BS.

So how about this. Sirc or Nitro.

If I took a picture of your daughter (pretend if you don't actually have one) and drew onto it male genitals doing obscene things and wrote on the top "rape Sirc's Daughter" (put her actual name in there so that everyone knows EXACTLY who I mean, of course) and posted it on the internet...you're telling me that you'd be cool with that, b/c I'm not actually saying that I would do it, but just that it should be done? Rather than be pissed and try to find me and beat the Heck outta me, you would hop on that thread and applaud my use of free speech?

Are you telling me that if I had posted "Take down the twin towers with 2 planes" online sometime in the summer months of 2001 that I SHOULDN'T be questioned about my involvement into 9/11?


* Books flight for Scottville, MI to beat the crap out of Bob *


It's tough to draw a relevant parallel between a political expression aimed at a political leader and the expression of an act of rape aimed at a 13 year old girl. I'm pretty sure Bush didn't find the girl's drawing horrifying. On the other hand I would imagine that a young girl would be quite terrified to find out that someone posted something like you described. As her father I'd certainly contact MySpace immediately to have the image removed and demand that the offending user's account be terminated. And yes, if I knew the person that did it then that person would probably be eating through a straw for a few months. If Bush was that upset about the girl's drawing then he should have had his dad make MySpace remove it. Then have his dad beat the girl up because I doubt Bush Jr. could handle the job himself.

No, I wouldn't applaud the rape thing as an expression of free speech. I'm not applauding the young girl that drew the Bush picture either. There are a lot of people who say a lot of things that I don't approve of, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have the right to say it - without government thugs coming to get them.

And yes, if you posted something like "Take down the twin towers with 2 planes" shortly before the actual event happened, then you should be questioned about your involvement. BTW, what does this have to do with anything? Was Bush killed?

[BobtheCkroach]

And yes, if you posted something like "Take down the twin towers with 2 planes" shortly before the actual event happened, then you should be questioned about your involvement. BTW, what does this have to do with anything? Was Bush killed?

Yeah, in retrospect that doesn't fit real well. I guess my point was back to what others had said...if something did happen to Bush and nobody had looked into this, it woulda taken hell in retrospect.

Anyways, I agree that certainly the rape concept vs what this girl did isn't absolutely parallel, I was just trying to turn the situation around for a minute.

i don't necessarily think that the extreme force that was used was necessary, but I think it was effective and I'd rather have this than have it totally uninvestigated.

And as of now, I'm in hiding. :P

[Nitro]

Isn't there a new movie where the current president gets assasinated? I didn't hear about the SS investigating the directors of that movie...

"The president can now, with the approval of Congress, indefinitely hold people without charge, take away protections against horrific abuse, put people on trial based on hearsay evidence, authorize trials that can sentence people to death based on testimony literally beaten out of witnesses, and slam shut the courthouse door for habeas petitions,"

“The Bill I sign today helps secure this country, and it sends a clear message: This nation is patient and decent and fair, and we will never back down from the threats to our freedom.”

He says this as he signs a bill that TAKES AWAY more of our freedoms.

War is Peace
Slavery is Freedom

This is beyond surreal...

how the hell do you people not realize what is going on

keep your rose-coloured glasses on boys and spread those ass cheeks while the rod of injustice penetrates your freedoms

[Goober]

Isn't there a new movie where the current president gets assasinated? I didn't hear about the SS investigating the directors of that movie...

Probably because it was filmed in the UK, and how do you know they aren't investigating? I didn't read anywhere on their web site where they had to inform you of their actions.


The president can now, with the approval of Congress, indefinitely hold people without charge, take away protections against horrific abuse, put people on trial based on hearsay evidence, authorize trials that can sentence people to death based on testimony literally beaten out of witnesses, and slam shut the courthouse door for habeas petitions,"

Did you actually read the bill? Or are you spouting something that you read somewhere. Unless you are an alien combatant, this bill has nothing to do with you. If you are a US Citizen, then this bill doesn't even concern you.

[Die Hard]

Goob, stay cool my buddy. :thumbs:

[Goober]

Goob, stay cool my buddy. :thumbs:

Sorry, Sometimes I get agitated by folks that make random statements withouth posting facts to back them up.
I really should know better, I have an 18 year old daughter. I win more arguments with a brick wall than I do her.
So Nitro. I give up. you're right, in a couple of years,after being beaten into confessing to a crime that I didn't commit. I'll be languishing in jail,because I have no rights to a trial by a jury of my peers.
Man...I'll sure miss my sheep!

[Sirc]

Well along the lines of not having any rights, it is my understanding that the secret service is not governed by normal law enforcement rules. Any action they take, by definition, is a matter of national security and more specifically protection of the president, VP, etc. They can pretty much do what they want, and you have no rights whatsoever if they decide to come after you. They do not need a warrent, and aren't required to give you access to legal counseling.

And they are sneaky bastards. They went to this girls house and told her parents that they would wait for the girl to return home before questioning her. And then they turned around and pulled her out of her classroom. One of two things happened here: They either deliberately lied to the parents to keep them away from the school, or they had the family's phones tapped and knew that the parents phoned the girl after they left the house.

And when they went to the school to abduct the girl they "gave the impression" to the principal that the parents were aware of what they were doing.

[Sirc]

Goob, stay cool my buddy. :thumbs:

You never tell me to stay cool. :(


It's because Goober is the one with the sheep, right? Bastid. :P

[EXEcution]

This is all essentially a repeat of what was going on during the Jacksonian era, then the Wilson administration. All three presidents: Andrew Jackson, Woodrow Wilson, and George W. Bush granted themselves more power than they deserved and this made them very controversial figures at the time (war time: The War of 1812, WWI, and the current War in Iraq). This type of harsh policy making will end when the war ends.

[Sirc]

This is all essentially a repeat of what was going on during the Jacksonian era, then the Wilson administration. All three presidents: Andrew Jackson, Woodrow Wilson, and George W. Bush granted themselves more power than they deserved and this made them very controversial figures at the time (war time: The War of 1812, WWI, and the current War in Iraq). This type of harsh policy making will end when the war ends.

Which war are you referring to? The war on terrorism? Yeah, that's scheduled to end next June I think.....

[EXEcution]

Which war are you referring to? The war on terrorism? Yeah, that's scheduled to end next June I think.....
It will end when it ends (when we get enough oil).

[Nitro]

Which war are you referring to? The war on terrorism? Yeah, that's scheduled to end next June I think.....
saying you can win a "war on terrorism" is about as idiotic as saying you can win a "war on drugs" and yet, people buy into the lies, into the deceit...that will be their demise.

Exe, don't just single out the current president because that would not be smart if you had all your facts together

Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?

[OUTLAWS CHICO]

No I don't think the US alone can win a war on terrorism.

Bob what you should have compared the threat of killing Bush is to caompare it to killing NITRO or SIRC. If someone had posted pictures and said the same thing about me You are damn skippy they better beware!!!!!!!!!
The whole subject keeps drifting away from the fact
THE GIRL DID WRONG She threatened a person harm !! With people going into schools and killing classmates for picking on them ,yes a threat online is certainly one hell of a shout out. If I said I was going to kill someone to a stranger on the street it is one person .What do you think that person would do ?
A = Say nothing and shrug it off
B = Call the police
C = put his head in the sand because it might be a politician.
Just like NITRO I bet he won't post a single bad word about his countries leaders. The only reason I keep going back to Nitro is because of his term here for 2 years statement should I
A= assume he is a terrorist, a cell here in the US
B= A student studying bomb making before he goes back to his unknown origin
C= A student learning to be a Doctor to save people in his country
See how statements made can leed people to think!!!!!!!
Some people here seem to say because it was Bush it is nothing = WRONG PEOPLE!!!!!!!!
No person should be able to be threatened on the web.

[Sirc]

Awww, bullshit Chico. I've been threatened with physical harm ON THESE FORUMS before. My entire family has been threatened with physical harm ON THESE FORUMS before. That same person posted personal information including my home phone number ON THESE FORUMS. That person didn't get banned, but I did, even though I've never done anything like that. I guess I'm just a troublemaker. :rolleyes:

Grow a thicker skin and stop being so damn politically correct. People get angry, people vent, people say things they shouldn't. That's life. Get over it. Or go do something usefull like harass the internet hate groups like the KKK or the Nazi websites.

Leave this poor little girl alone. For Christ's sake, when she found out what she did was illegal she took her picture off her MySpace. The SS didn't abduct her at her school until months later. How very effective our SS is, eh?

[OUTLAWS CHICO]

Bud if you knew me you would know my main concerns are not political!!!!!
I look at things for what they are Right is right and wrong is wrong. Did I say go any further with what has already been done to the spoiled,whiny ,girl. NO you guys are taking this case and making it a big political fiasco. I have only said she has done wrong period.
If my grandson did what she did and the SS did that to him ,Shame on my grandson. Nothing political about it!!!!!! But the way I am raising him he will respect his elders and voice his opinion with facts not threats. What gain could become of threatening death to the president ? This young girl is in classes that I never took in school. Her intelligence is probably by far above mine. But to stupidly threaten the president HOW DUMB ? Instead she should have posted the issues she thought were offensive to her.It would get her point out alot better don't you think.
Go to several other countries and say you don't agree with issues of their leaders and see what happens !!!! I for one have never seen a government official at my door and I bet there is probably not alot that have in here.
Leave the girl alone = now you are saying I am bothering this girl lol. I bet this girl is sitting around thinking look at all this publicity WOW and nothing really bad happened to me but a slap on the wrist. look up the word treason !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and if you leave her alone I will.

[Nitro]

Chico, if I truly wanted to do something that would impact the world, I wouldnt't be a terrorist, I'd be a dictator.

The Offspring wrote a song on their first cd entitled "Kill the President"

I believe the current president's dad was president at the time. That was freedom of speech being exercised and noone gave two shits about that song and how it talked about killing the president. However, you won't find that song on the releases of that D that have been made 2001+ because a certain someone didn't like it and was going to cry about it so the Offspring were forced to remove that song.

"America
All of your eminies
Come from within
But you lash out so
It is seen
Like some frightened child
In an angry world
Or the fall of Rome
Your demise comes
From your own hands"

http://www.sing365.com/music/Lyric.nsf/songUnid/f0d43e37224c3d844825689e000af560?OpenDocument&Click=

[Nitro]

you know what, just be good little slaves and do everything your KING will command you to do and force you not to do. you guys are completely hopeless.
Amaruca has been desecrated by pure evil

good day

[EXEcution]

saying you can win a "war on terrorism" is about as idiotic as saying you can win a "war on drugs" and yet, people buy into the lies, into the deceit...that will be their demise.

Exe, don't just single out the current president because that would not be smart if you had all your facts together

Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?
I am pretty sure that I wrote the War in Iraq and there is no mention of the war on terrorism in my preceding post. The parallel nature of the Bush administration, the Wilson administration, and the Jacksonian Administration came up several days ago in my philosophy lecture. I think that our professor made a valid point that all three Presidents had taken their executive powers too far.

Mind you that each of the three Presidents served their terms roughly 100 years apart from each other. So by looking at the past and seeing paterns we can deduce that this seizure of power will not last forever. There are other reasons as well but most of them go back to the political trends in the United States. I am not singling out anyone, I am drawing parallels.

You may also notice that your radical thoughts are not what the majority of the U.S. public believes to be true. You have absolutely no reason to think that somehow you are smarter than the people who are responsible for making the decisions that will affect the lives of millions of Americans almost every day. If you were then you would probably be running for public office or have a stronger affiliation with the political powers of the U.S. So unless you are running for public office then you are no less sheep or "slaves" as nitro puts it than the rest of us.

[BobtheCkroach]

Amaruca has been desecrated by pure evil


Us {DS} Guys are always up to no good! :P

[Goober]

Us {DS} Guys are always up to no good! :P

<sniff> I'm so proud to be associated with that Pure Evil guy. He's so much better than that generic evil everyone is using these days.

[Die Hard]

It's just a shame he's so ugly :P

[OUTLAWS CHICO]

I'm evil now hehehehehe See Nitro you have pretty much put your culture on the block. You do not agree with others and they are evil. The main evil I see comes from other nations wanting to build Atomic bombs blow up innocent people And basically kill their own.
I assume you agree with the people who blew up the towers? I also beleive you are the type of person that agrees the kids in the towers were also evil.The women trying to work to make a living to feed their children = evil too.I'm done with this topic !!!!!!!!!!! PEACE

[Sirc]

I'm evil now hehehehehe See Nitro you have pretty much put your culture on the block. You do not agree with others and they are evil. The main evil I see comes from other nations wanting to build Atomic bombs blow up innocent people And basically kill their own.
I assume you agree with the people who blew up the towers? I also beleive you are the type of person that agrees the kids in the towers were also evil.The women trying to work to make a living to feed their children = evil too.I'm done with this topic !!!!!!!!!!! PEACE

That was just...nuts. :confused:

Guide me to the post where Nitro said anything to warrant that response. Because I completely missed it.

And Nitro, WTF are you talking about with the two more years of being stuck here? I thought you were an American. If not, please explain your situation because it's hard to take you seriously when you state your views about America and then act like you belong somewhere else and are so anxious to leave this country.

[Nitro]

That was just...nuts. :confused:

Guide me to the post where Nitro said anything to warrant that response. Because I completely missed it.

And Nitro, WTF are you talking about with the two more years of being stuck here? I thought you were an American. If not, please explain your situation because it's hard to take you seriously when you state your views about America and then act like you belong somewhere else and are so anxious to leave this country.
I love America. However, America has died. America is no more. How can I stay in this foreign country any longer unless I want to submit to its fascist tyranny? I want to be free and this is not where I will find freedom. I miss my beloved country where freedom actually existed.

And yes, Chico, your post was rediculous.

It's funny how you say that people "blew up" the towers. They fell did they not? Unless you have some secret information on their being thermite bombs that ignited C5 explosive and blew up in the building every 10 floors or so that 19 arabs with boxcutters orchestrated, I will suspect you meant they fell. To answer your question, no, I do not agree with the people who blew up the towers. How could you ever say such a thing?