Wow I still hate Vista--How about you?

[ME BIGGD01]

Well after all the months passed by since my last Vista install I decided to give it another go to see the improvements due to patches and updates via the OS and with Drivers.

Now I always consider myself to be a freak when it comes to the components of my system. I believe in quality in the parts along with a very tweaked configuration. The bottom line is it's no use no matter what you do when it comes to this latest and greatest from Microsoft. I actually feel more pissed off about this operating system then I did when I first installed I think 6 months ago. The truth is not only does the software suck but so does the hardware when it comes to utilizing some of the features. One thing holds back the other and so on. Nvidia really sucks because their hardware is broken or really just not made to work correctly with the OS. I imagine this is the same for ATI but really this is bad news for the industry.

Now it is known that the OS does not run games all that well. FPS suck compared to XP but this is not only the case when it comes to overall performance of your computer system. Every application runs slower from the second you dbl click on the executable. I have tested my current system and I am shocked to say that even for a person who wants to just run business apps on the machine, Vista completely sucks and is two steps backwards. Now people are calling this WindowsMe #2 but I will say that this over bloated piece of crap is actually worste than WindowsMe. Now this OS has a lot of new features that is not available with the older OS's but those features really are useless when it comes to the performance disadvantages when weighed in to those thrid party apllications that are available and have been to XP. Things like Aero may look nice but for 30 bucks you can have this feature 3 years ago with windows blinds. The search BS is horrible considering the tax it has on your hard drive. The DRM infection in groce as well because it totally prevents you from controlling your media the way you want it. Nothing like creating a video of your kids and it being looked at as a pirated video. I am sorry that alone should prevent people from using this crap of an operating system. In this country you are innocent to provin guilty but when it comes to todays software they say you are guilty no matter what.

So I have made a list of likes and dislikes of this software once again. Would like for some of you people to come back with your experiences and judgements.

Like
It looks pretty when screensaver is on or just looking at the desktop.

Dislike
Too bloated
Networking is slow and or bugged
Directx 10 is a step backwards considering nothing uses it correctly.
The audio subsystem is horrible and all features that were available in older OS's do not work in Vista. All hardware sound cards are useless as Vista uses software layers that cripples your beter audio system.
Slow performance in all applications compared to XP.
Many active X apps will not work in IE even if you give permission.
Even as an administrator, you are prevented from accessing certain files which makes you wonder who is looking into your computer when your screensaver is on.
Firewall data will show your life is being sent to Bill Gates himself. You have to wonder why this is allowed in America but then again you can bet your Governement has something to do with this.
Drivers for all hardware still not up to par or maybe the hardware is just not done right to suit the OS.
The amount of services that need to run is pathetic and should be a warning to becarefull who has access to your computer.
Security system is a farce considering that MS thinks they are innocent or have permission to your system
DRM infectiion worste than ever.
Games will not play to their maximum level due to most of the other what I hate about Vista reasons.
Heavy tax on the hard drive for everything you run.
2 gigs of memory really not enough.


Bottom line about Vista, I imagine that the majority of people using this OS are doing so because of the eye candy. To me I think performance and my right to privacy is more important. I can glitter my stuff up other ways. I really can not see any feature worth this OS due to the over bloatedness. I would also imagine that the only reason people would use this OS is because that's what came on their new system. I honestly believe people should fight this with vendor and force them to give you a free copy of XP instead. Hell I would actually take other measures if they did not ;) . I think Vista is payback to all the people that ever stole from Microsoft because it should be know that this OS is the biggest piece of SHI..... that has ever hit the industry. I think Linux is actually looking better and better or hell even a Mac would be wiser for those that use a computer for simple e-mail, editing, internet. No reason to stick with MS for Vista no matter how much it's being forced on to the market. Warn your parents and grandparents, avoid this OS like you would avoid Aids.

[(Villains) Fragjunky]

ok i love vista fisrt of all get srs sandbox for your audio it is software which mimics a soundcard and has good sound to it. and who uses windows firewall anyways ? i use kaspersky internet security and its stops everything i know ( virus wise) . i do think that the only reasonable choice is to have x64 based vista becoz not many of the viruses can run in 64 bit platforms, i know this will change but it is the safer option
for now. and dont forget how bad xp was when the first releases came out , it was slow, unsecure and was bad in pretty much every sense and look how that os turned out. give it time and it will develop nicely.

[QuietStorm]

Vista is crap.

You have to do an update for every game. That sux

[ME BIGGD01]

ok i love vista fisrt of all get srs sandbox for your audio it is software which mimics a soundcard and has good sound to it. and who uses windows firewall anyways ? i use kaspersky internet security and its stops everything i know ( virus wise) . i do think that the only reasonable choice is to have x64 based vista becoz not many of the viruses can run in 64 bit platforms, i know this will change but it is the safer option
for now. and dont forget how bad xp was when the first releases came out , it was slow, unsecure and was bad in pretty much every sense and look how that os turned out. give it time and it will develop nicely.


Who the hell said I use Windows firewall? I use hardware for a firewall not some software based crap. And Who the hell is talking about viruses? You totally missed my point regarding the audio. Why would I use software to emulate anything when my XFI utilizes hardware to work and perform. If that was the case I would stick to onboard sound.

As far as WIndows XP being bad when it came out that is false. It ran just like Windows 200 but better when it came to media. I am not sure where you got that from but comparing the difference between Xp's release to Vista is a joke.

I thank you for trying to contribute but you mentioned nothing why you like Vista. How about letting us know what it is that Vista makes you happy. You are not talking to some joe Schmoe who just got a computer. I don't just compare a 3dmark benchmark and come up with a conclusion. I want you to tell me where Vista is good and how you came up with it.

Also why the heck do you have 3GB's of ram in your system? How is that? What is your actual config? Are you aware you are slowing your own system down that way and not utilizing the memory bandwidth correctly?

[Bingo]

I've always pretty much figured I'm staying the hell away from any new OS for about 2 years or so. Then, at that point, I'll take stock and see if I think it's worth it.

I hate new OSes. :(

[Goober]

I'm with Bigg on this one. You pretty much have to disable everything that they put into Vista to make it work the way you want it to. You have to disable the UAC if you want to edit any files, install any programs (without having to say please, pretty please....damnit let me install this thing). The Aero eye candy is a resource hawg and a half, If you want to play games or any graphics software it has to be disabled. Windows XP worked great right from the start with less memory.
My laptop was supposed to be made to run Vista. Dual core processor, 2gb memory and a pretty nice video card (shared memory unfortunately). Don't get me wrong, I like the laptop, but I really hated all the crap I had to go through to get it to work worth a damn.

[EXEcution]

I've been using it for 2 months now on my laptop (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Gateway-14-1-Widescreen-Notebook-PC-MT3423/sem/rpsm/oid/186484/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do#tabs) (which I don't game on) and I haven't had any problems whatsoever. It crashed maybe once the entire time I've used it. I am running the Aero interface and it looks great and the navigation of Vista is a nice improvement over XP.

[He Is Legend]

I've been using it for 2 months now on my laptop (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Gateway-14-1-Widescreen-Notebook-PC-MT3423/sem/rpsm/oid/186484/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do#tabs) (which I don't game on) and I haven't had any problems whatsoever. It crashed maybe once the entire time I've used it. I am running the Aero interface and it looks great and the navigation of Vista is a nice improvement over XP.

Vista is only good for computer's that get touched once or twice every week

the average gamer hates vista

[EXEcution]

Vista is only good for computer's that get touched once or twice every week

the average gamer hates vista

Well I game on the 360 and I touch this computer a lot more than once or twice a week.

[Death Engineer]

OK. I have to rant here. I am having to work on a Vista machine for a living now. Today took the cake. I was trying to run Eagle software (www.cadsoftusa.com). This is a really nice package for doing schematics and board layouts complete with linux and mac versions and a free trial that is fully functional.

I am trying to help export some data from a complex board that we have and I find that the documentation is in the help file. So just click F1 right? Wrong! I get a pop up message that sends me to a KB article describing why MS decided not to put the standard windows help into Vista that has been in every version since Win 3.1.

But they have a download that is supposed to fix it. So I download the thing (after validating that my Vista version is genuine). I install it, reboot, and try again. Different error message, this time with no explanation or KB link. The freakin' help file won't open.

So what do I do? I take a USB flash drive and copy the file to an XP machine, then pull up the help and get the info I need.

I tell you what, it just seems like even the simplest things like saving a file to the desktop are made that much more complicated. I hate the file explorer windows. I read an article this weekend about how MS just extended the availability of retail XP until 3Q '08, but I suspect that will keep getting extended.

Final rant: When our software closes on Vista, it brings up a message saying that it has failed to respond and asks the user if they want to send the message to MS every time. I have been around and around our code trying to find what is causing this and it is a complete mystery. Of course it doesn't happen with XP.

If what I have read about being able to revert to XP is true, I'm going to be on the phone tomorrow with Dell to find out how to make it happen.

[ME BIGGD01]

DE, you are a perfect example. You are trying to use this for work and it just don't work. The hours, the time, it's just not worth it. Think about why drivers don't work as well as they should. It's a broken OS and MS knows this. I bet their service pack 1 will be almost a complete rewrite of the OS. I honestly feel MS should be hel accountable for their actions as this OS breaks the law and your privacy rights. It's a total rip off for what they are charging and their way of forcing it on people.

Execution, you say it runs fine but what do you mean? Please define runs fine. Does it run as fast as your previous OS? What apps are you running that you notice no problems? Are you running any productivity suites? What I want to know is are you happier with Vista over XP and of so what is it that makes you happy?

[Pure_Evil]

I went to a friends house to help speed her PC up, I was mortified to see Vista on it........ It took a couple minutes to find what I needed, seams like they geared the basics so that people with no prior PC use experience can figure things out, which means if you have some basic PC experience, you're screwed, because nothing made sense.

Vista gave me a soft, fuzzy girly impression, basically, no balls :down:

[Bingo]

From what I've read, my impression is that MS was trying like hell to seriously clamp down on the permissisions that various programs have - most likely a sideways effort at stopping virusii/trojans, etc. Sort of like instead of locking all the doors and windows in your home, they are all boarded up and plastered over. Sure it works, but it's a very inconvenient solution that has lots of other solutions.

[EXEcution]

Execution, you say it runs fine but what do you mean? Please define runs fine. Does it run as fast as your previous OS? What apps are you running that you notice no problems? Are you running any productivity suites? What I want to know is are you happier with Vista over XP and of so what is it that makes you happy?

Yes it runs just as fast if not faster than XP Pro. It boots up much quicker and all the programs load up relatively fast too. Most of the time I run Firefox, WinAMP, Office 2007, and that's it. It's a good looking OS and so far I haven't had any driver problems.

[Perfect aim]

vista for me now is running really smoothly. I just did a Clean copy of it and now its wayy faster than xp and my serious sam game runs better than in Xp. I am shocked by the results but a Clean installations will make a difference.

[(Villains) Fragjunky]

ye sry bigg , had just woke up and read it wrong guess i came to the conclusion u were using windows firewall from u saying ur firewall was sending data back to bill gates. i use kasperskys firewall which as far as i can tell doesnt send nothing to that idiot. as far as audio i was only saying what i use, i have built in audio on my mobo so was only saying for others with no decent audio srs sandbox is a good option. i am the same as huggy i dont do anything other than surf the net listen to music and produce music and play games for thses purposes vista is quite good for me anyways. i like the looks of vista, its the little touches like the aero and dream scene which swings it for me because it does everyting xp did for me but looks better.. as far as memory goes i have 2x512mb sticks (paired) then 2x1gb (paired) with exact same timings so if this is slowing me down then i have never noticed it.if u can still see problems bigg tell me coz ur way more technically knowledged than me. thanks in advance bigg.

[Speedsweeper]

Biggs, i know what you mean about the audio problems. I have just upgraded my system recently and the only problem i had with Vista was the Soundblaster X-Fi issues.

I can't even get the sound to come out of my 5.1 speakers properly. Sound is fine with headphones but when my Creative speakers are plugged in and i do a sound test, is only works with 3 or 4 of the speakers. I need to switch some wires round but then the sound will work out of other speakers!

[ME BIGGD01]

They have an extra application for Vista for XFI owners which is really garbage and does not work that great. As much as creative is the worst company when it comes to drivers and such, this one is due to the Crappy OS Vista.

Now Vista will run ok for a budget system. Simple on board everything and maybe just a budget video card but overall if anyone wants to bet me that there system is faster in Vista then it is on XP then I will take that bet. It may look pretty and run ok but no way in hell does it out perform the older OS. I am not saying you are having problems with Vista but then again I am saying if you are a power user, you know exactly what I am referring to.

Like I said, you think your machine is faster with Vista, bet me and we can compare as long as if I win I get to do what I want with your system.

[MassacreAL]

ah, i`m glad to see i`m here on time for some flamy thread :D

I`ve got vista since it has been released, and i have to say i like it more than xp. i`ve got aero off and solid blue wallpaper so it looks like xps. i use it because it helps to save my time and because most of cons bigg posted are wrong or unimportant. for example 2 gigs of ram are not enough - its clearly wrong, sorry. i also frankly don`t care if i get in a game 50 fps instead of 60 or if i have to set antialiasing multisample on 2x instead of 4x to get the same results. important thing is that in windows it runs absolutely smoothly, quickly starts up, rarely hitches up and almost never freezes. i don`t have to care about many things like hdd defrag, slowing down in time(and therefore reformating every 3 moths) and caring about viruses/root kits and the likes. i also think that UAC is good thing. yes it pops up a message every time you have to do something with admin rights, but it doesn`t bother me at all because its only when i install something or running some app, and usually after such action i wait until i can use that app or click on "next" button when installing something. and i think one click is worth of being quite safe from dangerous things like hacking tools and trojan horses and keyloggers(when i was on a farm in england this summer, "someone"(its punishable) put keyloggers on all public computers there(all were with limited rights under xp), and is still getting peoples passwords on his email. it wouldn`t happen on vista. it was ardamax keylogger, for info. i wasn`t planning to ever tell anybody but here you have something you can hardly argue against, bigg). dx10 certainly isn`t step backward. it has some nice feature that could be emulated somehow at dx9 hardware(like chief of valve said few weeks ago) like shader model 4 but always it decreases performance to some degree. and some effects like hdr can be done faster(can`t say exact number, i don`t have dx10 card so i can`t try out) or significantly better(like water or vegetation. or sand). biggest problem is its vista-only, of course. please don`t blame some old fart from microsoft for having world-rulling dispositions, there might be some technical reason we don`t know about. simply its a fact and take it like that. therefore i take dx10 as a big plus for vista, not as a con.

so, my conclusion is that vista has more pros for me than any other OS

[ME BIGGD01]

"cons bigg posted are wrong or unimportant"

Well right here and there those are fighting words.:thumbs:



Well there you have it people. I am considering to keep stickie this because Mass has explained it all. Ladies and gentlemen, Vista is so great and is better than XP regardless of whatthe numbers, the industry, and billions of other people say. Right here, the post before this explians all the great things about Vista.

Mass, a little word of wisdom to you. Before you say I am wrong or the things I say are unimportant, know what you are talking about. I can accept a challenge anytime but please before doing so please get a better translator and reread what has been posted inthis thread.

Before Saying I am worng tell me where I am wrong. I am a man and can handle if I am wrong so don't be afraid.

Now lets look into what you said. You like the UAC, you disabled all the Aero and what ever. You think you can not get hacked or nothinbg is out that can ruin your computer. In XP you had to do a clean install every three months because it was the OS's fault. You are happier with 10 less frames per second in games, And DirectX10 is great regardless of not being able to compare it due to you don't have a card that can run DX10. Speaking of shader 4, you also make claims to that when you have nothing to compare it to.

Next I will list your specs
You have an extremely low end Coreduo chip, dx9 vga card, 1 gig of ram, onboard sound. The worth of your system is probably a few hundred bucks. The quality of your system in a 1 - 10 scale is probably a 4. Your Vista score is probably under 3.

Now you say Vista is great and I am worng when I am say it sucks.

To recap what I said is
Expensive sound cards are uselss which means no EAX or hardware support.
Drivers are not up to par.
OS is expensive compared to older.
Features do not work as they should.
Backward compatibility is not up to par.
requires more pwer and resources.
Slower than XP
Incredible DRM which degrades quality regardless of it being your own content.


Now I ask again to you who claims I am wrong. Where and how am I wrong. I think I mentioned for a simple user Vista would be fine for some but power users Vista sucks. Your system is not even pwerful enough to run all the features of Vista and you think that's ok. Don't ever come here and say I am wrong again unless you have proof. From the looks of your system which could not hold a candle to what I have you have no argument or the ability to compare what I say. I have never been hacked or got a virus in XP so why do I not have the same problems or threats. Is it maybe I know how to work the Operating system and computer and you don't? Is it possible you just don't know what you are doing and rely on the Vista UAC to control everything? Sorry pal but your attack on me will only cause me to show you where you are foolish. You are arguing with the wrong guy on the worng subject. I would guarantee your system would rock under XP pro and be secure if I had put it together and maintained it. It may be that you just hate but lets base things on facts.

Now you can do what you want with Vista. It does not work for working people that need things done yesterday. Although eventually this OS may get fixed in areas where it may be productive, this is the second time I gave it a whirl and with that it still sucks. I am sorry but you have not given one reason to why I am wrong and you have not proved it either. I never said it cannot be used but made a comparison to XP. If I am wrong I said we can bet as long as I get to do what ever I want to your system when the tests are done if I lose. So before you come here and try to attack me, know the facts, know what I said, and be prepared to be shamed because I don't ever claim to know it all but I don't ever talk out of my ass either. Also reread what you posted and take note that you were ok with it running to a lower standard. That may be fine with you but I pay to have good stuff and want it to run efficiently. You cannot expect to run a honda in nascar. You are a simple user who is using an OS that will not even run your system which is low end efficiently. DOn't take my word for it, run the tests. And DX10 will be great for games but to a power user, that will not be enough to have your system run like crap and to lose control of your system for.

Be Gone!!!!! And don't come back until you can bring something to the table.

[BobtheCkroach]

I will say that I like Vista and what it attempts to do. I've been using it for 2 months now.

Pros
-I LOVE Aero. It's gorgeous. It's fun. It makes using a desktop fun again!
-Despite what most people say/think, I *generally* like UAC. I'm not sure how much it stops stuff from installing, but I think it's a step in the right direction.
-Bootup and resume from sleep are pretty fast, faster than my XP system booted, I believe.

Cons
-On a gig of RAM, any gaming gets killed. My system was just beginning to need 2 gig of RAM on XP, for newer games. On Vista, I need more RAM so that WoW stops stuttering.
-While I think UAC is a great idea, it's not there at all. There needs to be an ability to adjust what/how it works. I like that it prompts when I install something, but I think it's silly that I have to provide credentials to delete a desktop shortcut. I don't honestly mind UAC in and of itself...and I use it the right way. I run as a limited user and provide my admin password whenever it prompts, I don't just run as admin and click "OK".
-In order to get games running well, I had to shut off Aero.
-Thank God my copy was free (it's legal), b/c if I had paid for "Ultimate" and gotten this, I would have been pissed. Dreamscene, a couple games, and bitlocker are NOT worth the extra 160 bucks.

Aside from that, I cannot comment on DX10, as I don't have a DX10 card. While I respect the fact that removing hardware sound support sucks, I can't say that I really care. I can't hear sound quality in any way shape or form. I can't hear surround sound in a movie unless it's super obvious, like a huge whip sound rotating around the room. To my ears, my onboard sound is just as good as an X-Fi card.

All in all, I will probably be moving back. When I first started using Vista, I really, really enjoyed it, and I would recommend it in a heartbeat for anyone who's computer can handle it and will be mostly doing things like a secretary with no unique, third party software, but not for a gamer or for someone w/ older hardware, at least not yet.

Driver wise, I can't personally complain. I don't have a single device that was troublesome to get drivers for, except the sound on the mobo, and that was not hard. Just had to go to realtek's site for hte drivers, not asus', and they've actually fixed that now.

I'm a bit more optimistic on the subject than biggs, but not a whole lot. I started out loving this OS and have defended it, but as the days go by, my thoughts on it keep going downhill.

I will probably take it off now and reinstall and evaluate when SP1 comes out sometime next year.

[ME BIGGD01]

Bob, your post like Executions are respectable. I did not make this thread to say no one can use it. I made many points that you and others have agreed to. Where as things that you don't use don't make it a problem when using Vista, you atleast can understand that for people that use them and it does not work, there is a problem. Such as my Xfo system. I had spent 200 bucks for this unit and for me it is so much better than any other product when listening to music or even playing games. There is a big difference also and I will show you the difference at the next lan party. I wish i did that last one but you will definetly see my point. For an example when playing COD2, I can hear from every direction where the enmy is. The audio is so accurate and it allows you to tune it as such. This is not an option in Vista.

Aero I think looks nice also. But the penalty is just not worth it. It's much easier to buy the actual product from Windows Blinds and have the same options or even more. I can make my XP OS look just as good as Vista based on the same engine that is used in Aero. The difference it runs better on XP.

DirectX10 as I said will be the thing that probably forces this OS on people. This is the only thing that hurts XP and MS will do this so you are forced to buy Vista if you want DX10. Games like UT that is coming out will be able to play in DX9 and will still look great.

My comparison was not pulled out of the bung hole and everyone should know that. I did the tests, all benchmarks and performance tweaks and XP runs between 10-25% more efficently. Anyone can do these tests on there system by just installing XP on a seperate drive and see what I am talking about. I am not biased toward any product and to be honest withthe latest editions to the XP such as windows updates, one has to really consider the alternatives to Operating systems. Due to this bs DRM infection that is plagued all over, I am reconsidering my Linux options.

Another point made from me was that Vista elimates the owners power to do what they want. You can disable UCA so that's not a problem but take a look at all the services running and add a firewall that has the ability to logg whats going on and you may just get a little nervous as to who has control or the ability to come in when they want. Sorry, I can't have that because with in a year you will see the people who finally switched over to Vista starting to create the programs tha manipulates those things MS has implemented into vista. Right now the V is not being used as much. Like the Apple OS, many attack are not done on them because of the amount of user base. But be sure to mark it down the problems will come more and harder in Vista.

For anyone to come here and say I am wrong what I say or the things I say are unimportant is just stupid. I imagine mass just want to stir up something. I will put a stop to that any time. This is my cage and he dares to rattle it he better come here with not only better english but know what he is talking about.

[BobtheCkroach]

If the gaming support was there, I'd drop Windows in favor of Linux in a heartbeat, but the only reason I own a PC, personally, is to game. I mean, yeah, the internet, but pretty much, to game. So for me, getting rid of windows isn't currently possible.

The only reason that I own one professionally is to develop, and I do all that in ASP.NET, so I can't drop MS there, either :)

[ME BIGGD01]

Bob from what I see there are games being ported over to linux. I will have to get a list of the popular games that are available today. I believe Quake and UT is available in linux. I guess it would be good to know and learn about it. I also know that many games are starting to become available for the mac. This better wake MS up because alternatives are always nice to have.

[MassacreAL]

yes, its good old bigg :)
take a look at my specs again, i upgraded it a bit. i know that 2gigs of ram are enough because i have experience with it. score of my comp is 5. but scores doesn`t matter, what matters is how fast it is when i work with it. and its fast enough. faster than xp when working in windows. now let me to answer in points.


clean install of xp every three months - you are right it wasn`t because of xp but because i`m lazy pig and after three months xp was messed up and much slower. after 7 months of using vista i haven`t noticed any slowdown. and i still behave like a louser.

shader model 4 - i can compare it to SM3 i`m using now and quite often i think "if i had SM4 i could do it in easier way" or something like that. during the summer i hadn`t much access to computer so i bought several books and studied graphics programming and now i`m programming my own engine. i know what i`m talking about.

Expensive sound cards are uselss which means no EAX or hardware support. - with my sound card i don`t care. it works as good as it did on xp.

Drivers are not up to par - i haven`t had any problem with drivers, even with drivers for modem and keyboard(logitech g11). maybe you use different devices and you have problems with that, but since every device of mine is working fine i can`t count this as a con

OS is expensive compared to older. - i don`t care because i`m old bastard. guess what. i know this is big con for most people and i have to agree, but again i don`t care.

Features do not work as they should. - this one is partly right, they are releasing almost no content for dreamscene, but i don`t use it. i don`t know what they were promising before release but i haven`t noticed any feature doing something wrong. maybe you were waiting for some feature and it didn`t work. i can`t count this as a con.

Backward compatibility is not up to par. - from time to time i see something that i can`t use now but with xp i could, but it was nothing crucial and i can`t say what it is because i don`t remember. maybe there is something you are can`t run, but its not my case.

requires more pwer and resources. - true, but my comp handles it perfectly and instead of slow down i notices speed up. yes on my 2gigs ram it uses about 700mb after start-up. figure out what i would say next, i guess you`ve heard it before or noticed on your own. it also uses more hdd space, i guess about 20gigs after installation, i`m not sure, but because i have 820gigs of disk space i don`t care that much. so this point is both con and plus.

Slower than XP - depends in which situation. you know what i would say here again. partly it`s true and partly isn`t, but its still a con.

Incredible DRM which degrades quality regardless of it being your own content. - i haven`t noticed this, maybe someone have, but somewhere i read in xp it was as well. however it doesn`t cause me any problem so i don`t care anyway.



now there are some pros:
xp used to totally piss me off from time to time. for example sometimes when i was manipulating in some way with my dvd drive, there popped up message like "please insert a disk into drive E:" or something like that. when i clicked on any button it showed again and there was no way i could stop it popping up. i had to restart system but i could be sure it would happen again sooner or later. i guess most people don`t experience this, maybe it was because of dvd-rom device or something, but it was extremely annoying. now it doesn`t happen. big ples for me. probably not for you.

it better handles working in windows. i guess it can use multicores and it certainly uses more ram(700mb of 2000). why not? if it can drop to 350 when i need to and runs faster when i don`t need so much ram, its plus for me. i simply wait less.

dx10 - its potentionaly big plus, but majority of players have to be able to use it first. only after that game developers will put effort to expensive effect developing and after that you will see what it can do. not now. only 2% of players are dx10 ready, according to valves survey.

there is nothing else i can think of i haven`t said before, so here you go. please notice i`m not talking for all people, just for myself. i know there might be people that xp suits more(maybe its you), but for reasons i said above i consider vista as a best choice for me. i also think there is no absolut best OS. someone might need this and someone else that. therefore i never think about people that stays with xp that they are stupid or slow. no, never. i also hope noone thinks about people who uses vista as about stupid or microsoft-minions.

[BobtheCkroach]

Bob from what I see there are games being ported over to linux. I will have to get a list of the popular games that are available today. I believe Quake and UT is available in linux. I guess it would be good to know and learn about it. I also know that many games are starting to become available for the mac. This better wake MS up because alternatives are always nice to have.

There are quite a few, but their support is (generally) after the fact, and often done not by the developer, but but another group.

UT is one of the few that always includes native support for linux, out of the box. Most ID games can be made to work on Linux, but it's either through ID releasing a fix after the fact, or through 3rd party modification. The actual box that you can go to the store, purchase, come home and install on linux from the box is pretty much just UT.

[ME BIGGD01]

WOAH, WOAH, WOAH.....

Mass, correct me where you say I was wrong. From your long post no matter what you contradict yourself. You are right you have the right to be happy with a product that works for you regardless of it not working perfectly. I am curious though... if you were the salesman and represented Vista as you just did, how would the customer feel?

Another, if you went to buy a new car and this car was slower than your previous car, stalled a lot on main roads, got bad gas mileage, required you stop every time you were going to make a turn to make sure you were going the right way, would you still think it was a great car because it was new?

How can you justify being faster than XP? What's faster? Why did you disable aero and wallpaper if system runs fine?

Do you think people who have better equipment should reconsider because you don't use it? What if you did have better equipment?

Your total resoning makes no sense and what pisses me off is you have the balls to say I am wrong. Were you strapped in the school bus as kid? Maybe too many windows licked:confused: ?

[MassacreAL]

I was going to leave this thread, but I have just came by this (http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/mod/journal/journal.asp?jn=316777&cmonth=5&cyear=2007). recently I`ve started reading journals of game developers, because there are many useful things. some of them are even active on forums. gamedev is great site.

[BobtheCkroach]

I was going to leave this thread, but I have just came by this (http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/mod/journal/journal.asp?jn=316777&cmonth=5&cyear=2007). recently I`ve started reading journals of game developers, because there are many useful things. some of them are even active on forums. gamedev is great site.

You want us to watch a video that most of aren't going to understand?

No thanks. You want to prove your point, summarize the thing in laymen's terms for us.

[Nitro]

WOAH, WOAH, WOAH.....

Mass, correct me where you say I was wrong. From your long post no matter what you contradict yourself. You are right you have the right to be happy with a product that works for you regardless of it not working perfectly. I am curious though... if you were the salesman and represented Vista as you just did, how would the customer feel?

Another, if you went to buy a new car and this car was slower than your previous car, stalled a lot on main roads, got bad gas mileage, required you stop every time you were going to make a turn to make sure you were going the right way, would you still think it was a great car because it was new?

How can you justify being faster than XP? What's faster? Why did you disable aero and wallpaper if system runs fine?

Do you think people who have better equipment should reconsider because you don't use it? What if you did have better equipment?

Your total resoning makes no sense and what pisses me off is you have the balls to say I am wrong. Were you strapped in the school bus as kid? Maybe too many windows licked:confused: ?

that last part made me laught. thanks dan, i needed that :)

[MassacreAL]

You want us to watch a video that most of aren't going to understand?

No thanks. You want to prove your point, summarize the thing in laymen's terms for us.

there is no video :confused: read second post

[BobtheCkroach]

My bad, I misread something.

You should still specify that what I'm interested in is not the actual post, but a reply, though. I read the first thing that had 6 different links and thought "screw this" when it started talking about 3D pipes in DirectX 10.

I'm not gonna understand a bit of that, nor do i want to.

and what second post are you speaking of...the one that talks about the improved file browsing and liking vista? biggs already pretty well countered those points. Pretty vista is fine and dandy, but if the gaming suffers significantly, why bother?