Bailout BS

[FUS1ON]

This is the type of stuff that angers me about this bailout, these son of a bitches get the money they needed and turn right around and spend it on stupid shit. :mad:


WASHINGTON - Days after it got a federal bailout, American International Group Inc. spent $440,000 on a posh California retreat for its executives, complete with spa treatments, banquets and golf outings, according to lawmakers investigating the company's meltdown.

AIG sent its executives to the coastal St. Regis resort south of Los Angeles even as the company tapped into an $85 billion loan from the government it needed to stave off bankruptcy. The resort tab included $23,380 worth of spa treatments for AIG employees, according to invoices the resort turned over to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

The retreat didn't include anyone from the financial products division that nearly drove AIG under, but lawmakers still were enraged over thousands of dollars spent on outing for executives of AIG's main U.S. life insurance subsidiary.

"Average Americans are suffering economically. They're losing their jobs, their homes and their health insurance," the committee's chairman, Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., scolded the company during a lengthy opening statement at a hearing Tuesday. "Yet less than one week after the taxpayers rescued AIG, company executives could be found wining and dining at one of the most exclusive resorts in the nation."

Former AIG CEO Robert Willumstad, who lost his job a day after the Federal Reserve put up the $85 billion on Sept. 16, said he was not familiar with the conference and would not have gone along with it.

"It seems very inappropriate," Willumstad said in response to questioning from Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Md.

"Those executives should be fired," Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama said at a debate with Sen. John McCain on Tuesday, referring to the retreat participants. Obama also said AIG should give the Treasury $440,000 to cover the costs of the retreat.

But Eric Dinallo, superintendent of the New York State Insurance Department, said he could see the value of such a retreat under the circumstances.

"Having been at large global companies and knowing what condition AIG was in ... the absolute worst thing that could have happened" would have been for employees and underwriters in its life insurance subsidiary to flee the company.

"I do agree there is some profligate spending there, but the concept of bringing all the major employees together ... to ensure that the $85 billion could be as greatly as possible paid back would have been not a crazy corporate decision," Dinallo told the House committee.

The hearing disclosed that AIG executives hid the full range of its risky financial products from auditors as losses mounted, according to documents released by the committee, which is examining the chain of events that forced the government to bail out the conglomerate.

The panel sharply criticized AIG's former top executives, who cast blame on each other for the company's financial woes.

"You have cost my constituents and the taxpayers of this country $85 billion and run into the ground one of the most respected insurance companies in the history of our country," said Rep. Carolyn Maloney, D-N.Y. "You were just gambling billions, possibly trillions of dollars."

AIG, crippled by huge losses linked to mortgage defaults, was forced last month to accept the $85 billion government loan that gives the U.S. the right to an 80 percent stake in the company.

Waxman unveiled documents showing AIG executives hid the full extent of the firm's risky financial products from auditors, both outside and inside the firm, as losses mounted.

For instance, federal regulators at the Office of Thrift Supervision warned in March that "corporate oversight of AIG Financial Products ... lack critical elements of independence." At the same time, PricewaterhouseCoopers confidentially warned the company that the "root cause" of its mounting problems was denying internal overseers in charge of limiting AIG's exposure access to what was going on in its highly leveraged financial products branch.

Waxman also released testimony from former AIG auditor Joseph St. Denis, who resigned after being blocked from giving his input on how the firm estimated its liabilities.

Three former AIG executives were summoned to appear before the hearing. One of them, Maurice "Hank" Greenberg — who ran AIG for 38 years until 2005 — canceled his appearance citing illness but submitted prepared testimony. In it, he blamed the company's financial woes on his successors, former CEOs Martin Sullivan and Willumstad.

"When I left AIG, the company operated in 130 countries and employed approximately 92,000 people," Greenberg said. "Today, the company we built up over almost four decades has been virtually destroyed."

Sullivan and Willumstad, in turn, cast much of the blame on accounting rules that forced AIG to take tens of billions of dollars in losses stemming from exposure to toxic mortgage-related securities.

Lawmakers also upbraided Sullivan, who ran the firm from 2005 until June of this year, for urging AIG's board of directors to waive pay guidelines to win a $5 million bonus for 2007 — even as the company lost $5 billion in the 4th quarter of that year. Sullivan countered that he was mainly concerned with helping other senior executives.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081008/ap_on_bi_ge/meltdown_aig

[SASQUATCH]

OMG, this is Unwise and dense! :banghead:

Now that the people know of this, it will be the talk of the town for weeks to come.

[Pure_Evil]

I'm sorry Sho, what you failed to realize is the AIG pumped $440,000 right back into the economy by supporting food services and helping to stimulate the spa movement, securing employment for people working banquet and spa facilities in the CA region :rolleyes:

How could you miss that?? :eek:

Come on guys, start looking at the glass being 1/2 empty!

[FUS1ON]

That's exactly what is so F'ed up, our glass used to be full so you enjoy you half full or half empty glass. You are damn right i'm pissed and all of you should be too. Most Americans can't afford to be doing those lavish things these days, why should the a-holes that helped get us into this mess be allowed to? That's fine if they want to put money back into the economy, but don't be looking to get something back like this crap when it's partially your fault that the country is in the shape it is.

[JIMINATOR]

well, aig is an insurance company, they didn't write any of the bad loans. they made it possible for stupid companies to insure the bad loans. it was all a huge money grab from a lot of people. what ultimately will pull us out of the recession is people spending money. not to excuse their behavior, but it is typical.

[OUTLAWS high ping camper]

I need another stimulus check. :)

[Nitro]

The government couldn't give a damn what you think Shogun, nor do these execs who are laughing in your taxpayer face right now. They voted on the bailout of Wall Street once...the failed. They voted on the bailout of Wall Street twice...the succeeded. If at first you don't succeed at raping the US taxpayers of money, try again.

Don't worry, I'll "take care of them" for you ;)

[Seriously Stoned]

I agree shogun, this is really F'ed up. Sounds to me like they need time in prison for awhile.

[Mad Fox]

The American taxpayer robbed

[Pure_Evil]

That's exactly what is so F'ed up, our glass used to be full so you enjoy you half full or half empty glass. You are damn right i'm pissed and all of you should be too. Most Americans can't afford to be doing those lavish things these days, why should the a-holes that helped get us into this mess be allowed to? That's fine if they want to put money back into the economy, but don't be looking to get something back like this crap when it's partially your fault that the country is in the shape it is.

:hmmm: sounds like he almost took me seriously...

Why not just vote out everyone who voted for that bailout? Wonder how many of those companies contribute to campaigns at every level? :hmmm:

[FUS1ON]

Sorry bro ... I wasn't sure how you meant it. We need a sarcasm smilie so I can tell the difference in the future. :D

[Pure_Evil]

hell, what fun is that! :D

[JIMINATOR]

another LOL..



AIG considered buying advertisements to explain its position, only to be told by its public-relations consultant, George Sard, that it would be ``a really bad idea.''

``To spend the taxpayer's money on an expensive ad campaign to apologize for how you used taxpayer money leaves you open to further attacks,'' Sard wrote in an e-mail yesterday to Ashooh. Sard, chief executive officer of New York-based Sard Verbinnen & Co., said the message was a private e-mail mistakenly sent to Bloomberg and wasn't intended to be a public statement.

[Sirc]

I need another stimulus check. :)

Well if you think I'm going to check your stimulus, you can forget it.

[Nitro]

All those that voted for this bill committed treason and would have been hanged in the old days...

[Sirc]

I sit here and read through these threads and laugh. Most people here are content to place blame as if any of that actually matters now. At this point your silly banter is pointless. The world economy is collapsing around you. Big time. Armageddon style.

And all the kings horses and all the kings men aren't going to be able to put it back again.

And this couldn't have come at a worse time, because winter is coming and you won't even be able to dig up your back yard to plant vegetables to feed your family.

Prepare the best you can. Buy food while you can. Corporations will fail, are failing, the unemployment rate is going to skyrocket, retirement income is disappearing rapidly, and there will be riots.

Have you seen the reports that the US government is moving troops into areas on our own soil? Do you think that is to protect us from some foreign invasion? No, it's to handle the civilian population when things eventually become unmanageable for civilian law enforcement.

Call me crazy, but let's wait and see.

[Pure_Evil]

You crazy!

There, someone said it.

Glad I work for the cheese, if Sircy is right, I've got a secure job :P

[Nick]

Im not too worried up here :D

http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/09102008/6/finance-canada-rated-world-s-soundest-bank-system-survey.html

[ME BIGGD01]

While Sirc's prediction has not reached that point yet he does say what will happen when it gets worst. I am prepared for the worst case scenario which is pretty much how I live my life. I always plan for for worst case scenario and anything above that makes things better.

Now the original topic was the outrage of AIG and their BS. Now people post in response to it as well and scream out their frustration. And now I post regarding this with a bit haste because it amazes me that this is what you all get yourself worked up about. My argument is that this should not be the thing or only thing that pisses you off. Like usual, the American people failed to look up or pay attention to what was going on. Like usual Americans did not take the responsibility to prevent this BS bailout nor did they look at actually what was being bailed out. If you had paid attention, there was more info there that would have pissed you off further such as wooden arrows for a buys scout camp etc. It's proof that this country has failed already and we are at the top of the slope coming down. The corruption has gone too far to change it and in respect to Sirc's comments, I agree the Chaos will unfold unless by some small miracle, a prayer even form the morons that believe in no God, and the strong will of Americans to finally stand up and do what ever they need to do to fix and prevent this corruption from winning over yours and mine country.

This was not a bailout. It was complete robbery of every American that pays taxes. It robbed our fathers and mothers and worst, it has robbed our children and maybe their children. WHat this Governement has done is pardon those greed lying scummy thieves at the same time as they laugh in our faces. Both parties are guilty 50/50 and the truth is they ought to be beheaded in public or assasinated by the people. Again we need to take back the Country from the corrupted. It is why we have a constitution which many have died for already in order to prevent what is happening now. Too bad though people will not stand up yet until ofcourse Sircs prediction has taken place.

My suggestion is go to Church and repent because what has been said is happening right before our very eyes. Regardless many of you don't believe in God and we have a member in these forums from outer space or where ever. Maybe better off you all just continue playing your video games.:rolleyes:

[NightBreed]

I sit here and read through these threads and laugh. Most people here are content to place blame as if any of that actually matters now. At this point your silly banter is pointless. The world economy is collapsing around you. Big time. Armageddon style.

And all the kings horses and all the kings men aren't going to be able to put it back again.

And this couldn't have come at a worse time, because winter is coming and you won't even be able to dig up your back yard to plant vegetables to feed your family.

Prepare the best you can. Buy food while you can. Corporations will fail, are failing, the unemployment rate is going to skyrocket, retirement income is disappearing rapidly, and there will be riots.

Have you seen the reports that the US government is moving troops into areas on our own soil? Do you think that is to protect us from some foreign invasion? No, it's to handle the civilian population when things eventually become unmanageable for civilian law enforcement.

Call me crazy, but let's wait and see.

Sirc makes a good point..No matter what the economic climate is, it's always a good idea to be prepared..
Go back 75-100 years and see how your great-parents lived..Grew and canned their own veggies, had livestock for food and provisions, lived off the land, took care of their own. I think that's what we're heading back to..

[Nick]

My suggestion is go to Church and repent because what has been said is happening right before our very eyes. Regardless many of you don't believe in God and we have a member in these forums from outer space or where ever. Maybe better off you all just continue playing your video games.:rolleyes:

believing in god and believing in organized religion are two entirely different things !!

[Wiper]

I sit here and read through these threads and laugh. Most people here are content to place blame as if any of that actually matters now. At this point your silly banter is pointless. The world economy is collapsing around you. Big time. Armageddon style.

And all the kings horses and all the kings men aren't going to be able to put it back again.

And this couldn't have come at a worse time, because winter is coming and you won't even be able to dig up your back yard to plant vegetables to feed your family.

Prepare the best you can. Buy food while you can. Corporations will fail, are failing, the unemployment rate is going to skyrocket, retirement income is disappearing rapidly, and there will be riots.

Have you seen the reports that the US government is moving troops into areas on our own soil? Do you think that is to protect us from some foreign invasion? No, it's to handle the civilian population when things eventually become unmanageable for civilian law enforcement.

Call me crazy, but let's wait and see.

A lot has to do with trust, the scenario you're drawing can indeed become reality but don't forget that most healthy companies fall only cuz of panic stock-selling which comes from mistrust :)

Edit:
Remember the company which almost felt cuz of old news posted by google http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4742147.ece

[ME BIGGD01]

A lot has to do with trust, the scenario you're drawing can indeed become reality but don't forget that most healthy companies fall only cuz of panic stock-selling which comes from mistrust :)


You can bet that if Obama wins the election, many companies who will pay the penalty under a socialist Gov will close. What people fail to see is these companies have workers that will be let go. This country will be ruined with that kind of Governments and proof is look at every other nation that runs their country the same way. SO people can be promised tax cuts and health care but what good is it when those people are out of jobs and can't even pay their electric bill? That's why the bailout was so corrupt. Fannie and Freddie knew they would be bailed out and that is what caused the corruption which has cause not only our country problems but the world. If anyone knew they would be bailed out of their credit card debt, everyone would run up their credit cards with no worry. The bailout is proof how corrupt everything is. The country has a person they can blame which is Bush but the truth is this happened on his watch because he did not change what was in place by the Clinton era. I myself blame both parties due to it. This was known to happen and nothing was changed. McCain tried to stop it in 05. He brought it up and they fought against it. At that time Obama was not even in the picture so he is off the hook but concern should be thought of about experience and also is socialist thinking. IF the people think that change is good for the people than so be it and vote for Obama. Eventually they will regret that move and the people will get what they deserve. It's too bad that people who feel the way I do will also have to suffer.

[Wiper]

You can bet that if Obama wins the election, many companies who will pay the penalty under a socialist Gov will close. What people fail to see is these companies have workers that will be let go. This country will be ruined with that kind of Governments and proof is look at every other nation that runs their country the same way. SO people can be promised tax cuts and health care but what good is it when those people are out of jobs and can't even pay their electric bill? That's why the bailout was so corrupt. Fannie and Freddie knew they would be bailed out and that is what caused the corruption which has cause not only our country problems but the world. If anyone knew they would be bailed out of their credit card debt, everyone would run up their credit cards with no worry. The bailout is proof how corrupt everything is. The country has a person they can blame which is Bush but the truth is this happened on his watch because he did not change what was in place by the Clinton era. I myself blame both parties due to it. This was known to happen and nothing was changed. McCain tried to stop it in 05. He brought it up and they fought against it. At that time Obama was not even in the picture so he is off the hook but concern should be thought of about experience and also is socialist thinking. IF the people think that change is good for the people than so be it and vote for Obama. Eventually they will regret that move and the people will get what they deserve. It's too bad that people who feel the way I do will also have to suffer.

The economie doesn't run on 1 president though he has a huge influence to push laws through the government. Yet if you look at the debates Obama feels much more secure during the economical questions and knows what he's talking about (at least he sounds like he knows) and that is the big handicap of McCain. McCain admitted far before these elections that economics ain't his strongest point and I think that will cost him his victory. People (especially in the USA) want a strong "all" knowing leader with advisers helping with ideas not advisers tell the leader what to say and how to think. I'm not saying McCain is stupid, I'm sure it's a wise guy just not wise enough on the points now needed.

Regardless of the Democrats vs Republicans issue, at the end of Clinton's presidency the balance was positive and now in 8 years the national debt doubled. In my eyes that is failing looking @ the last 8 years. Everybody deserves a place to live but people got mad on borrowing and live way behond their wallets, the system was doomed to fall the only question was when.

The corrupts for the banking is indeed a very bad cause, it should be banned as best as possible though it's very hard not to inflict the free market too much as a government. I just hope people get their "cool" again and the government does what it has to do. It's not too late unless everybody starts saying it's too late (the trust/fate part :D ).



I don't see it as a bailout btw, it's just the most extreme way for a government to clean the system simply by buying and so owning it.

[JIMINATOR]

eh, I think mccain is too far gone to stand a chance of winning. I used to be liberal but find my views growing more conservative, at least as regards money and taxation. whoever becomes president is going to have some incredible ecomomic realities to deal with. I believe all the "pet" projects are going to be put aside in an effort to fix the economy. The past 8 years have seen the government double in size. The government does not make money, it only takes it or borrows it and then spends it. Not sure how it happens that republicans leave behind such a mess when they leave office. Working at my job I see that there are huge groups of people that will always exploit any type of system put in place, and the government is just huge and bloated in this regards. A lot of things need to be done to right the ship, and I think Mccain would have been better for this purpose. Look at the recent bailout bill? Don't like it? Lets add a bunch of sizzling pork to it, now how about it? Just bloat and waste. Not that I am saying we didn't need the bill, as we do. Kind of bizarre watching your country be on the verge of economic collapse. Capitalism finally losing. Too big to fail becomes too big to do anything but fail.

[ME BIGGD01]

Not sure what you mean by republican run as the Democrats currently run the house. Problems were sure to hit regardless due to the "Poor should be able to buy homes scheme" started.

[Death Engineer]

My conclusion on this whole situation is: Man is naturally greedy. I think that pretty much sums it up.

[JIMINATOR]

Hrm, these poor did not purchase 400k houses. The problem was also not created in the past 1.5 years. if you look at any of the government programs you have to purchase FHA insurance if you have <20% down payment. I have not heard anything of the FHA/HUD in all this mess. Nope, this problem was created due to greed, as DE said. As an example of the scams being played a family stole 25 million from WAMU by buying and selling houses in the same neighborhood to each other. Property values "went up" and they were able to take out bigger and bigger loans. Someone could have looked at the rapid increase and seen a scam, but no. Anyway there is plenty of blame to go around. The US people are ultimately responsible, we made the loans, we took out the loans, we elected our government. The government is trying to fix things by throwing money at the problem. More debt to be repaid. More inflation. More invisible taxation. Interesting times.

[Sirc]

Russia has now completely closed it's stock market until further notice. Iceland is very near declaring bankruptcy if it hasn't already. And so the dominoes start to fall.

I know I'm being a doomsayer here, but, yeah, really really bad shit is happening. I believe it is a global adjustment, and ultimately good will come out of all this in the form of restructuring and rebuilding the economy based on common sense. It's gonna hurt though. A lot.

The fairy tale that is the Federal Reserve -their days are numbered. Currency will actually become based on, and backed, by real assets. That has to happen now.

My main concern is the violence that can and probably will result from all of this.

[ME BIGGD01]

I wonder why they just did not bail out the people who actually owed the money? I mean lets say everyone was actually able to pay off their house, would that not resolve the problem? Why bail out any corporation? If the people have to fit the bill, the people should be getting the help. This is where I get confused as to why we bailout a company that was folding and the CEO still gets 47 million in bonuses. Let it all fall so we can fix it.

[Sirc]

I wonder why they just did not bail out the people who actually owed the money? I mean lets say everyone was actually able to pay off their house, would that not resolve the problem? Why bail out any corporation? If the people have to fit the bill, the people should be getting the help. This is where I get confused as to why we bailout a company that was folding and the CEO still gets 47 million in bonuses. Let it all fall so we can fix it.

Because that makes too much sense and the elites don't profit by it.

[JIMINATOR]

not making excuses for anything, but part of the problem is that nobody knows what anything is worth. there are already refinancing programs available, freezes on interest rates, customers can also renegotiate. If a customer is not able to stabilize their debt within that criteria then handing them money for a few months payments is likely to be just throwing it away. From a debt perspective it is better to close the bad loans, that allows companies to take their losses and move on. Investors will buy bad debt, there is a huge market for risky investments, ie: junk bonds, but the problem is that there are too many unknown factors in the current market. Part of the bailout is for the government to make the first move. If the economy recovers then the government can make a profit. Continued stagnation, well, more problems. It's just not the rich people that have screwed you. It is also your neighbor that bought a big house and lost his job.

[Sirc]

It's just not the rich people that have screwed you. It is also your neighbor that bought a big house and lost his job.

I understand that that, sorta. But it's not the neighbor that lost his job, it's the neighbor that bought a house without being able to actually pay for it because of the ridiculous and risky loans that were being given so freely. Loans that were fine as long as shit didn't happen. And shit happened. Who's fault is that? The average Joe that could finally afford to have his own house because of the lure of lender magic, or because of the lenders that made really bad decisions on who they lent money to?

[JIMINATOR]

lenders have made it possible for everyone to live way beyond their means. deficit spending has become a way of life. the average american consumers owe $9k and have less than $1k in the bank. either we take our cues from the government or the government from us. it is greed and it is everyone's fault. "no money down" "no interest for a year" "pay nothing for a year" etc. yeah, it was good while it lasted. Now everything is insane. To imagine, GM is valued at 2.6 billion. Billy could buy up all the car companies. Things are a joke.

[Sirc]

lenders have made it possible for everyone to live way beyond their means. deficit spending has become a way of life. the average american consumers owe $9k and have less than $1k in the bank. either we take our cues from the government or the government from us. it is greed and it is everyone's fault. "no money down" "no interest for a year" "pay nothing for a year" etc. yeah, it was good while it lasted. Now everything is insane. To imagine, GM is valued at 2.6 billion. Billy could buy up all the car companies. Things are a joke.

Agreed. I have a fixed rate mortgage at around 6%. And I got that because I've had a steady income for years and had an excellent credit rating. It's fine, I can handle that, but if I lose my job then I'm not going to be able to handle it. This has always been the case, always. That has always been a constant in the risk lenders take. I guess my problem is with you saying that it's people losing their jobs that is causing the problem. It's not. It's the ridiculous lending policies that has gotten us to where we are.

Have a 325 credit rating? No problem! Can't afford the monthly payments? No problem, you'll only have to pay the interest. Can't pay the interest? No problem! We'll give you a year or two to actually get a job and start paying. The economy is growing in leaps and bounds so don't worry!

Comon Jim. People are stupid. And the predator lenders tried to exploit. And they did. And now everyone is going to pay for the lenders' criminal actions. Predatory lenders have actually fallen to the bottom of the scum of the Earth, even surpassing lawyers IMHO.

[Nitro]

Danny, we ARE a socialist country now, an operation fully endorsed and complete by George W. Bush. Talk about irony, humans are a peculiar race (and no, I don't consider myself a part of this bizarre race).

You have to be smart to know how to make this economic collapse be in YOUR favor. I made capital gains of about 30% in the past week on my assets. How? ETFs that go twice as much up as the S&P 500 goes down. I have enough money to get myself that 12.5 acre ranch in northern New Mexico that I've been wanting for a while now :D

Look how Rothschild made his money a few hundred years ago by crashing the London stock market by starting a rumor that Napoleon won (when he in fact lost a Waterloo), sending stocks crashing and them he proceeded to buy them at pennies ot the dollar and basically buying the country of England. You need to be smart like those guys. If I was old enough to trade on put options on 9/11, I would have betted that the airline companies would drop like a ton of bricks, as the smart bankers "in the know" did and raked in millions. You can not bicker and moan after the fact because you did not take proactive steps to ensure your monetary security. This financial system is broken and if I was leader of the world, I'd throw it away and create a new economic system that was based on gold or something tangible such as a resource.

My guesstimate is that the markets are about halfway to the bottom, so load up on some ETFs saying Obama is going to win, the Down is going to fall, and get some lucious gold bars and several semi-automatic rifles and grow a nice little garden in an indoor greenhouse (since winter is coming) and you'll be doing great :)

[JIMINATOR]

like I say, everyone is at fault. it isn't just the subprime & option arm mortgages that are at fault. Lots of people with good stable mortgages went for "cash in on the equity of your house" line and got either second mortgages or home equity lines of credit. As a result those loans have started to fail also. It is a cascading effect. If things stabilize then we can all resume, not where we left off, but a bit wiser (for a while, people have short memories). If things continue to swirl around the drain, well, big problem.

and nitro, you may have made money, but in terms of the money coming and going your 30% is nothing. Buying FNM or FRE at .30 and selling at 2.80 would have seen a 9x return. Tons of stories like those. Nowadays the stock market is like vegas with a commission. At least there you can know the odds.

[Nitro]

Sadly, you're right about that. It's just one giant gambling casino right now. Better watch for those jumpers on Wall Street next week, especially if there's a bank holiday...

[JIMINATOR]

two good [short] videos, well worth watching

collateralized debt obligations - this one really points out how investors were buying junk debt but thinking they were getting highly rated debt
http://consumerist.com/5061365/what-are-collateralized-debt-obligations-watch-these-champagne-glasses

credit default swaps, an unregulated gambling market, the size of which exceeds the GDP of all the countries combined.
http://www.publicradio.org/columns/marketplace/offair/2008/10/untangling_credit_default_swap.html

[Nitro]

The first step to fix the situation that the int'l bankers created is to make it law to have the government print currency (like under Lincoln with his greenbacks) instead of how it is now, for a private corporation to print paper receipts as money. This, however, will not happen unless there is a global revolution against that system by the commoners. We all see what happened to Jackson (would have been assassinated but both pistols of assassin misfired), Lincoln, Garfield, Kennedy and other presidents that tried to destroy the private central bank system created and controlled by European bankers.

[Sirc]

The first step to fix the situation that the int'l bankers created is to make it law to have the government print currency (like under Lincoln with his greenbacks) instead of how it is now, for a private corporation to print paper receipts as money. This, however, will not happen unless there is a global revolution against that system by the commoners. We all see what happened to Jackson (would have been assassinated but both pistols of assassin misfired), Lincoln, Garfield, Kennedy and other presidents that tried to destroy the private central bank system created and controlled by European bankers.

I think that there are a huge amount of Americans that don't realize the Federal Reserve is not a government controlled institution. Yay for having a completely autonomous group of people deciding on how much US money is printed and what the interest rates for borrowing that money will be.

[Nitro]

Let me issue and control a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws." (Mayer Amschel Rothschild, Founder of Rothschild Banking Dynasty)

As one of our founding fathers, T. Jefferson said once:

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

Lincoln had this to say about these private central banks:

"The money power preys upon the nation in time of peace and conspires against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me, and causes me to tremble for the safety of our country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the republic is destroyed."

He was assassinated

Garfield had this to say about these private central banks:

"Whoever controls the volume of money in our country is absolute master of all industry and commerce...and when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate."

He was assassinated

Jackson had this to say about these private central banks:

"You are a den of vipers. I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God I will rout you out. If the people only understood the rank injustice of our money and banking system, there would be a revolution before morning."

He was almost assassinated, but both of the assassin's pistols misfired, after which he said "The bank, Mr. Van Buren, is trying to kill me...."

Kennedy signed Executive Orders EO-11 and EO-110, returning to the government the responsibility to print money, taking that privilege away from the Federal Reserve System.

He was assassinated

See the correlation?

If you aren't able to watch the 3.5 hour The Money Masters I posted in the presidency topic, read this brief history of central banking in the US: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article2522.html

[Mr Clean]

I need another stimulus check. :)

I love HPCs timing LOL

[FUS1ON]

This is 'another' outing by AIG


AIG spent thousands on execs’ hunting trip -
UK vacation happened as insurer asked for billions more in federal loans
CHARLOTTE, North Carolina - First there was the $440,000 American Insurance Group Inc. spent entertaining executives days after receiving an $85 billion lifeline from the Federal Reserve, now it’s $86,000 for a hunting trip in England as the faltering company reaped another $37.8 billion in taxpayer funded loans.

News of the hunting trip emerged Wednesday as New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo ordered AIG to do away with golden parachutes for executives, golf outings and parties while taking government money to stay afloat.

“Even after the taxpayer-funded bailout of AIG, the company paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for luxurious retreats for its executives, including an overseas hunting party and a golf outing,” Cuomo wrote in a letter to the New York-based insurer.


The rest:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27201970



Regarding the recent hunting trip, “We regret that this event was not canceled,” Tulupman said Wednesday.


FU you Prick!

[Nitro]

the aristocrats get rich and we suffer

Postal Service Looks To Cut 40,000 Jobs In First Layoff In History

"We lost 2 billion dollars and like any other business we have to stay afloat." And to keep from sinking, the United States Postal Service is considering cutting thousands of jobs nationwide. Lavelle Pepper with the post office in Shreveport says they too are feeling the affects of the same disease hitting the country... a struggling economy. "We employ about 685,000 people. If we do layoffs it would include clerks, carriers, mail handlers across all crafts."

Pepper says the postal service is looking to eliminate 40,000 jobs nationwide. There's not an exact number on how many of those could be from the Ark-La-Tex. Pepper says workers who are not part of union with six or less years of service would likely be the first on the chopping block. "We've identified 16 thousand people that are not covered under contract. We'll see what those numbers add up to."

The postal service is also offering early retirement packages to workers over the age of 50 who have more than 20 years on the job. But according to pepper it may not be enough. "The preliminary numbers look like it's not going to be enough and we may have to do something else." But despite what may happen, Pepper says customers will not feel the pain they're going through. "The general public when it takes place won't se any decrease in service.. They largely won't know about it."

http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=9247633

[EXEcution]

the aristocrats get rich and we suffer...
"The general public when it takes place won't see any decrease in service.. They largely won't know about it."

How can we suffer if we don't know about it.

[Nitro]

We aren't going to notice 40,000 less postal workers having some inmpact on us? That's as if we're saying those 40,000 people were useless and employed for absolutely no reason. My mail man confirmed this a month before this story came out about how they're talking about for the first time to lay off people from the postal service...the postal service of all things! This has never been done in history..not even the Great Depression.

[Death Engineer]

For what it's worth, the postal service DOES have many people that stand around and don't do much all day. I can say this because I have seen it with my own eyes. My uncle has been a postal worker for >20 years and he would tell you the same thing. It's not exactly run like a business trying to stay afloat.

[EXEcution]

Exactly. People can always be put to more efficient use, and today this is rarely the case.

[Nitro]

Exactly. People can always be put to more efficient use, and today this is rarely the case.

Humans should not be treated as resources. This is dehumanizing and taking away from the purposes of life itself. Even in the early 1800s, Europeans who would come to America were perplexed by the "hard working American" that basically left no free time to themselves to enjoy life and just worked, worked, worked, until they died. This has no changed. Even though a work week is 40 hours, people work 50, 60, or even longer hours overtime in this country. For what? For a little bit of more money so you can buy a massive house that you don't need?

Europeans treat life differently. They put life before work, as it should be. Work is a means to obtain money that is used to obtain life's essentials as well as pleasurable and desireable experiences, be they through physical or nonphysical means.

This notion of maximum productivity is a fallacy, imo.

[EXEcution]

Humans should not be treated as resources. This is dehumanizing and taking away from the purposes of life itself. Even in the early 1800s, Europeans who would come to America were perplexed by the "hard working American" that basically left no free time to themselves to enjoy life and just worked, worked, worked, until they died. This has no changed. Even though a work week is 40 hours, people work 50, 60, or even longer hours overtime in this country. For what? For a little bit of more money so you can buy a massive house that you don't need?

Europeans treat life differently. They put life before work, as it should be. Work is a means to obtain money that is used to obtain life's essentials as well as pleasurable and desireable experiences, be they through physical or nonphysical means.

This notion of maximum productivity is a fallacy, imo.

I guess you haven't taken any Human Resource Management classes. The point is that most companies today recognize a strong correlation between employee job satisfaction, engagement, and their profits. It's a relatively new approach to HRM and it also depends on what kind of job you have.

We shouldn't let human potential go to waste by having everyone work when and as they please and then screw around when they aren't working.

[Mr Clean]

Humans should not be treated as resources. This is dehumanizing and taking away from the purposes of life itself. Even in the early 1800s, Europeans who would come to America were perplexed by the "hard working American" that basically left no free time to themselves to enjoy life and just worked, worked, worked, until they died. This has no changed. Even though a work week is 40 hours, people work 50, 60, or even longer hours overtime in this country. For what? For a little bit of more money so you can buy a massive house that you don't need?

Europeans treat life differently. They put life before work, as it should be. Work is a means to obtain money that is used to obtain life's essentials as well as pleasurable and desireable experiences, be they through physical or nonphysical means.

This notion of maximum productivity is a fallacy, imo.

To add to what EXE said, individuals use companies as resources too. It goes both ways. They use each other.

Americans work hard and play hard. It's no secret the success of this country is due in no small part to the hard work of the average American. I work 50 hours a week by choice. If the company does better I do better, it is a win-win situation.

[Nitro]

But think of the tradeoffs you are making. You are trading off more free time to pursue existential experiences for more capital. Everyone has their own opinion with what is more important, material possessions/money or interpersonal human experience.

[Slay]

Hey, I guess now were going to be bailing out the OVER PRICED Auto industies :down: next will be those poor Health Care institutions and Lawyers can't forget those poor soles.

[JIMINATOR]

health care industry is doing fine, and there is always a need for sharks

[Nitro]

The Federal Reserve is refusing to identify the recipients of almost $2 trillion of emergency loans from American taxpayers or the troubled assets the central bank is accepting as collateral.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aatlky_cH.tY&refer=home

So the aristocracy gets the serfs' assets that they don't even have. What a lovely way for the whole system to implode in the next few months and years.

[Mr Clean]

But think of the tradeoffs you are making. You are trading off more free time to pursue existential experiences for more capital. Everyone has their own opinion with what is more important, material possessions/money or interpersonal human experience.

You can't have existential experiences from work, during work? Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive?

[Mr Clean]

The Federal Reserve is refusing to identify the recipients of almost $2 trillion of emergency loans from American taxpayers or the troubled assets the central bank is accepting as collateral.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aatlky_cH.tY&refer=home

So the aristocracy gets the serfs' assets that they don't even have. What a lovely way for the whole system to implode in the next few months and years.

You don't know where the money went any more than Bloomberg does. Unlike Bloomberg, you are apparently ready to leap to conclusions and assume you know the whole story. However, $474 billion went to buyng Fannie and Freddie bonds, and $788 billion went to banks...whoops, I read the whole article again and spoiled it for you. My bad!

I'd go on about the TARP and so forth, but conspiracies don't sound as good with details, so nevermind...