Jesus Camp

[Nitro]

oh...my...god

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3929535037535102662&ei=U4oESZ-MFaHSqALxi4H8Dw&q=jesus+camp

i want to cry

[EXEcution]

How do you have time to watch these things!?!?

This sums it up well in my book. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1686869996332081185&ei=yAAFSf7wOaP0qAK4__z0Dw&q=jesus+camp+trailer

[OUTLAWS high ping camper]

That movie came out awhile ago, I couldn't bring myself to watch it. :)

[Wiper]

Is greed not one of the seven sins? Maybe she can consider that when she rolls to the next meeting :rolleyes:



Only saw a glimps of the vid but stuff like this scary me *shivers*


Edit:
Rofl: 33:50

[Nitro]

That movie came out awhile ago, I couldn't bring myself to watch it. :)

Yes, I know, but like you said, I couldn't get myself to watch it until now. I figured after Saw V, I can watch another horror film since I'm desensitized now but oh, how wrong I was

:(

[FUS1ON]

You say you want to cry???

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18730854
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article3320938.ece
http://www.counterrgroup.org/8mmvideoX/stillpics.htm

I can post more, but I think you get the picture or maybe not. I didn't watch the video but I think i'll take children being taught about God even if their methods might seem extreme or odd to some over teaching them Terrorism anyday.

[Sepra]

That's pretty excessive. I find cultural documentaries interesting so I watched the whole thing. :P Although as strange as that video is, I have to admire people who have the dedication to really believe in something. I try to not discriminate. I do however feel that believing something is one thing, but soliciting your beliefs on others is rediculous. The excerpt from 20:20 to 22:20........ For a child to be having fun being a kid at a night out bowling, feels the need to approach another patron and preach their belief..... :confused:

Edit: That's sad Sho :(

[FUS1ON]

I forgot one and this one is a little closer to home and yet I don't hear you objecting to this Nitro.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf2njPRdxsM

All the links I posted they teach hatred, somehow I don't see little Johnny at bible camp blowing himself up.

[Nitro]

___

[Wiper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=309MCU8TonE&feature=related He makes some very good points here.

[FUS1ON]

Nitro you take things to the extreme, most people's volume knobs go to 10, yours goes to 15. Not all people that go to church are members of a cult. You have weak minded people that don't quite fit in, they don't where to turn and end up in cults because they are shown a little love. It's like this saying "If you don't believe in something, you will fall for anything".

Then there are other people that end up in a different sort of cult like these geniuses that were caught today .... I think i'll stick with God's ways.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081027/ap_on_el_pr/skinhead_plot

[Wiper]

Nitro you take things to the extreme, most people's volume knobs go to 10, yours goes to 15. Not all people that go to church are members of a cult. You have weak minded people that don't quite fit in, they don't where to turn and end up in cults because they are shown a little love. It's like this saying "If you don't believe in something, you will fall for anything".

Then there are other people that end up in a different sort of cult like these geniuses that were caught today .... I think i'll stick with God's ways.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081027/ap_on_el_pr/skinhead_plot


Ain't this the same with muslims? :o

[EXEcution]

Question: What do white supremacists have to do with the video Nitro posted?

To me it seems that there is little correlation and clearly Nazi's do not believe in the Judeo-Christian God.

The problem with religion is that it claims to have almost all of the answers to people's problems. It claims that there is some divine Truth in the world. Additionally, these religious institutions have no problem with simply ignoring any new ideas that attempt to interfere with their goals and holistic interpretation of the world.

"Kill the infidel!! Shun the non-believers!!" the religious texts say. But it's not God that says these things. It's people. People who resist the ever-changing world and spend their lives with a metaphorical veil over their eyes.

I find this Bible quote interesting: “For now we see through a glass, darkly…” (1 Cor. 13:12)

It claims that people have an imperfect and skewed view of reality, but at some point -- through some sort of aid from God -- we will see the world for what it is.

The question is: How do we remove the veil/glass?

[Nitro]

___

[Sirc]

Question: What do white supremacists have to do with the video Nitro posted?

Agreed. The skinheads are insignificant compared to the mainstream Christian fundamentalist movement. Let's stay on-topic.

[Nitro]

The question is: How do we remove the veil/glass?

By shifting our position of awareness to the understanding of two fundamental truths: All is one and All is connected

When we realize that there is no cause of anything. When we realize that the Self is a manifestation beyond existence, or nonexistence. When we emerge potentiality out of essence into manifestation.

[EXEcution]

By shifting our position of awareness to the understanding of two fundamental truths: All is one and All is connected

When we realize that there is no cause of anything. When we realize that the Self is a manifestation beyond existence, or nonexistence. When we emerge potentiality out of essence into manifestation.

Yes, but this is an ideal state. What you are describing is basically a manifestation of God/Godhead/True-self/ it's all the same idea.

I am talking about the means, not the ends. I don't think that the ends are possible to achieve, otherwise we would already be there. There simply aren't any constants we can readily rely on to take the necessary leap to achieve an ideal state. The world, as we know it, is completely out of human control. Therefore, we continually and obliviously implement temporary control mechanisms through technology, literacy, and rhetoric.

In the end, we exist to serve ourselves, not God.

[Sirc]

Yes, but this is an ideal state. What you are describing is basically a manifestation of God/Godhead/True-self/ it's all the same idea.

I am talking about the means, not the ends. I don't think that the ends are possible to achieve, otherwise we would already be there. There simply aren't any constants we can readily rely on to take the necessary leap to achieve an ideal state. The world, as we know it, is completely out of human control. Therefore, we continually and obliviously implement temporary control mechanisms through technology, literacy, and rhetoric.

In the end, we exist to serve ourselves, not God.

Why would we already be there? The problem is that most people act and respond on a very small frame of reference. Their own lifetimes. The frame of reference that is required for change is much larger than that. There won't be any sudden leap. It takes time, knowledge, awareness and foresight for change to happen. It happens, and has been happening throughout human history. Gradually.

Why is technology, literacy and rhetoric a temporary control mechanism? What else is there? These are the very tools that allow societies to progress.

[EXEcution]

Why would we already be there? The problem is that most people act and respond on a very small frame of reference. Their own lifetimes. The frame of reference that is required for change is much larger than that. There won't be any sudden leap. It takes time, knowledge, awareness and foresight for change to happen. It happens, and has been happening throughout human history. Gradually.

Why is technology, literacy and rhetoric a temporary control mechanism? What else is there? These are the very tools that allow societies to progress.

You are repeating what I'm saying. What are we trying to achieve through human progress? There's this concept of an ideal state, but by definition something ideal is impossible to achieve or sustain. An ideal society is not a real or natural one.

"Every belief, every considering something-true," Nietzsche writes, "is necessarily false because there is simply no true world" (Will to Power [notes from 1883-1888]).


We simply have to account for human nature. E.g. We kill because it's our nature, if it wasn't we wouldn't be doing it. Therefore, to prevent excessive killing we set up control mechanisms.

God is just another form of control. We don't know what's going to happen every single day of our life so we need some sort of assurance. This is because people themselves cannot control their own behavior and often behave erratically, unpredictably, and irrationally. Then we begin to have fear and paranoia it's spread through literature and rhetoric so we develop weapons through technology. This leads to escalation; we go from a spear to a nuclear weapon. A spear was a temporary solution, a nuclear weapon will eventually become obsolete thus also making it a temporary solution.

Through the course of human history it appears to me that we achieved very little. Most of the greatest inventions and discoveries have been offset by the most horrendous acts against humanity. I don't think this will ever change. We cannot achieve any constant, ideal, or Godly society.

So we need to focus on the here and now and begin to think for ourselves. There cannot be any sort of God in the here and now because everything humanity has made is proven to be fallible. If God stands for perfection, then we are way off the mark.

[Nitro]

You are repeating what I'm saying. What are we trying to achieve through human progress? There's this concept of an ideal state, but by definition something ideal is impossible to achieve or sustain. An ideal society is not a real or natural one. We simply have to account for human nature. E.g. We kill because it's our nature, if it wasn't we wouldn't be doing it. Therefore, to prevent excessive killing we set up control mechanisms.

God is just another form of control. We don't know what's going to happen every single day of our life so we need some sort of assurance. This is because people themselves cannot control their own behavior and often behave erratically, unpredictably, and irrationally. Then we begin to have fear and paranoia it's spread through literature and rhetoric so we develop weapons through technology. This leads to escalation; we go from a spear to a nuclear weapon. A spear was a temporary solution, a nuclear weapon will eventually become obsolete thus also making it a temporary solution.

Through the course of human history it appears to me that we achieved very little. Most of the greatest inventions and discoveries have been offset by the most horrendous acts against humanity. I don't think this will ever change. We cannot achieve any constant, ideal, or Godly society.

So we need to focus on the here and now and begin to think for ourselves. There cannot be any sort of God in there here and now because everything humanity has made is proven to be fallible. If God stands for perfection, then we are way off the mark.
Wait a minute. Just because we have certain undesireable traits embedded in our genetic code right now, like anger and hate, that does not mean we must have them forever. With continuously advancing technology, we will be able to isolate the genes that make use angry, hateful, etc, and eliminate them from the gene code itself. Animals do not hate. Plants do not hate. We do not need to have that traits either. Technology can do this faster than any sort of evolution of consciousness can.

[EXEcution]

Wait a minute. Just because we have certain undesireable traits embedded in our genetic code right now, like anger and hate, that does not mean we must have them forever. With continuously advancing technology, we will be able to isolate the genes that make use angry, hateful, etc, and eliminate them from the gene code itself. Animals do not hate. Plants do not hate. We do not need to have that traits either. Technology can do this faster than any sort of evolution of consciousness can.

Again this goes against nature. Read: A Clockwork Orange or watch Equilibrium. We cannot simply take away free will. If we do the world will balance itself out and even the odds. No anger or hate != perfection.

[Nitro]

I'm an idealist though, which is why I have that stance.

[EXEcution]

I'm an idealist though, which is why I have that stance.

As long as you understand that we can only strive towards an ideal, never actually reaching it, then you have my support.

[Nitro]

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