So how do you feel so far

[ME BIGGD01]

Regarding the new President? I for one think the change you all wanted is not the change you were expecting. I am not sure if anyone is paying attention but this is getting scary.

[JIMINATOR]

biggs, this economy is cluster f*cked. Its like you had all this imaginary growth the past 8 years. and now it has all disappeared. *Poof* gone. GM is asking for more money. and if they get it they will probably ask for more money in a few months. if the taxpayers wanted to support them they would buy their shitty cars. People have realized that borrowing can be a bad thing, so they have stopped borrowing and started saving. Besides, banks are not lending. Jobs are for shit. There are no guarantees. The people that think their job is safe is deluding themselves, even if they are the owners, they can't have a job with no customers. are things going to suddenly change with obama in office? no. They will probably continue to get worse. how much worse is anybodies guess. Aside from signing a big ass spending bill he has not really done much. bush spent a trillion dollars on two wars and a new useless department of government (with their own tv show now). Obama is spending the same amount on the economy. Who was right and which was the real threat?

[Sirc]

I don't know if he's going to be a good president or a bad one, but I don't thinks it's fair to judge him so early. He's trying to turn around an aircraft carrier that's running at full speed. It's gonna take a while.

[Slay]

I don't know if he's going to be a good president or a bad one, but I don't thinks it's fair to judge him so early. He's trying to turn around an aircraft carrier that's running at full speed. It's gonna take a while.
I agree, Time will tell.

[OUTLAWS WHOCARES]

If the news would shut the F**K UP people would start to spend monet again. Thats what I think. As far as how he is doing it is too early to tell.

[Suicidal]

If the news would shut the F**K UP people would start to spend monet again. Thats what I think. As far as how he is doing it is too early to tell.

you know thats not gonna happen. thats what the news is

[Pure_Evil]

Personally, I'm spending what I can to help others out. I agree, it's scary, but the past 8 didn't work, so wtf, give him a few to see if things turn.:confused:

[ME BIGGD01]

I honestly don't think the economy is as bad as it seems. I do believe these corporations are full of shit and are crying poverty because they know the Gov will bail them out. They are all in it for the bailout free cash we and our children will be stuck with. This country should say no to all these companies. If they can not manage to get things right than the hell with them and they go out of business. It's a scam if you ask me and why any bank or corporation is being bailed out with money that is just being printed is BS. I am so pissed on how much money I lost in my 401k and where did that go. They are robbing the American people in support for corporations that totally goes against what this country stands for. Letthe companies go out of business and the union workers lose their jobs. It should not have to cripple the nation or world for that matter. If anything why the F are the people not being bailed out? If people cannot afford their house than that's their fault and a lesson should be learned. That was another scam and we are getting screwed for that.

As far as Obama goes, it has nothing to do with givinghim more time to fix things. His plan just can not work and it will cause more problems. F the stimulas, it wont help but buy a little time and put us all in a hell we could never imagine. I have no choice to give him a chance but from what I see he is no better and maybe actually worst considering what his stimulas package is offering. I feel sorry for the elderly with his plan.

I am honestly frustrated not with just Obama but with everyone in a seat in our Government. Unlike many who just blames Bush for everything, I know better and see that there are other people in office not doing what they are suppose to which is serve for us the people. It's like we are being enslaved and I cannot understand why people dont see it. The worste part is that it will get worste. Our Governement is too big and we are all F'd.

[ME BIGGD01]

Personally, I'm spending what I can to help others out. I agree, it's scary, but the past 8 didn't work, so wtf, give him a few to see if things turn.:confused:


It's funny you saythat Pure because I have noticed no cut on spending from myself. I actually have gone out to dinner twice this past week taking people and as you know I refuse to let anyone pay. The thing is that both places wwere packed and the bar was packed so where is it they claim no one is spending? This may not seem like a legit comparison but I think if people were worried we would all be home. This is what I mean by a scam and I honestly believe it. Just say no to the bailouts and let the cookie crumble. It's not like these companies were not making any money. If they go out of business, another company would buy them if the Government would back the F off and let it happen. I belive what Jim said to be true that they will borrow money and ask for more because it's all a scam with no need to explain where the money is going that we are bailing them out with. I feel if a company is being bailed out than that company has failed. Noone should be getting any bonus for it even if it was 2 bucks.

[Caged Anger]

I believe in our new President, its why I voted for him and I also believe it will take more than a month to reverse the damage the last generation has left for the current one

[ME BIGGD01]

I believe in our new President, its why I voted for him and I also believe it will take more than a month to reverse the damage the last generation has left for the current one

So you are full of hope or believe in his policy will work? You do understand that the last generation is still mostly in power right? Just curious what looks promising on your end so maybe I can feel better.:thumbs:

[Mad Fox]

I think that these men in power in these corporations should be jailed along with many of our former political leaders of the last 8 years.

[ME BIGGD01]

I think that these men in power in these corporations should be jailed along with many of our former political leaders of the last 8 years.


I repeat, the majority are still in office. Who and what are you point the finger at and for what? Not getting a straight answer, why?

[Caged Anger]

Biggs, I don't know and neither does anybody else

Everyone knows something is wrong
Everyone knows there are people at fault
Everyone knows something needs to be done about it
Nobody knows what's the truth in the matter
Nobody knows how to get anything done

Pretty darn frustrating all around...

I don't pretend to be knowlegable in the areas of politics, don't intend to either. All I can do is hope, like all those that can before me and will come after me, that this country is founded upon good principals, hard work, and the power of the people and when all is said and done and the current trouble has blown over, that it will continue to be a role model for what a country should be.

I'm with you sir when it comes to killing the bailouts. I called my congressman when the first one was proposed and I'm damn proud we shot it down (a bloody shame it did no good). I fully believe that this country functions in a free market and the market has proclaimed that these companies are due to go under. The fact we are fighting it is only extending the period of time it will take to move to bigger better things and frankly is contrary to the ideas that allowed this country to grow as it did. (Also funny to note...Japan tried 9 bailouts during their Dark Age in the 90's...epic fail there too)

[Mad Fox]

I repeat, the majority are still in office. Who and what are you point the finger at and for what? Not getting a straight answer, why?

I'm not exactly sure sure how this current economic crisis started, who, what, when, where, and why seem to remain unanswered. But what I do know is that greed, envy, and other unconscionable acts have occurred. Some of the wealthiest people in this nation have built their fake fortunes on the backs of people like myself - average middle class working folk. We all have been taken advantage of. They ride around in their expensive cars, live in their million dollar homes, and eat 100 dollar steaks. How did they get that money? They stole it. They stole it from regular hardworking Americans. How did they do it? Here is credit - go buy- do the American thing and BUY BUY BUY. Oh you want a home for your family here is a mortgage you can never afford let your family live here until we sap every dollar out of your pockets. Oh give me your retirement to invest, WHOOPS! we lost it all sorry.

What happens next these criminals come to the government and say let us steal from the average man again - give us a trillion that should fix the system. Whoops we need more here is another trillion. ITS ALL WRONG. There is absolutely no personal responsibility anymore. Its never someones personal failure no it was other circumstances that caused it. I don't buy that. Many of these corporate leaders knew it was wrong and still committed these heinous acts.

Corporate America has continually screwed America for the last 60 years. Where has common decency gone? I will tell you it has been kidnapped by profits.

Now do i have a solution to these monumental problems. I don't. I am a simple person with simple needs. But I do believe that these criminals have a debt to pay to society.

As I see it, and I may very well be mistaken. Nationalization is the only way to solve this situation. I do not believe that these corporate leaders can be trusted. Now can the government be trusted more? I am not sure. But the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over expecting different results. We tried the bailouts, they don't work. I just don't know.

What I truly believe in is the common goodness of America. I belive in our collective ingenuity. This is a challenge that America can rise too and overcome. President Obama symbolizes that hope. I don't expect him to fix this problem in six weeks. But I believe that he will try his hardest to change the course of this nation.

[ME BIGGD01]

I'm not exactly sure sure how this current economic crisis started, who, what, when, where, and why seem to remain unanswered. But what I do know is that greed, envy, and other unconscionable acts have occurred. Some of the wealthiest people in this nation have built their fake fortunes on the backs of people like myself - average middle class working folk. We all have been taken advantage of. They ride around in their expensive cars, live in their million dollar homes, and eat 100 dollar steaks. How did they get that money? They stole it. They stole it from regular hardworking Americans. How did they do it? Here is credit - go buy- do the American thing and BUY BUY BUY. Oh you want a home for your family here is a mortgage you can never afford let your family live here until we sap every dollar out of your pockets. Oh give me your retirement to invest, WHOOPS! we lost it all sorry.

What happens next these criminals come to the government and say let us steal from the average man again - give us a trillion that should fix the system. Whoops we need more here is another trillion. ITS ALL WRONG. There is absolutely no personal responsibility anymore. Its never someones personal failure no it was other circumstances that caused it. I don't buy that. Many of these corporate leaders knew it was wrong and still committed these heinous acts.

Corporate America has continually screwed America for the last 60 years. Where has common decency gone? I will tell you it has been kidnapped by profits.

Now do i have a solution to these monumental problems. I don't. I am a simple person with simple needs. But I do believe that these criminals have a debt to pay to society.

As I see it, and I may very well be mistaken. Nationalization is the only way to solve this situation. I do not believe that these corporate leaders can be trusted. Now can the government be trusted more? I am not sure. But the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over expecting different results. We tried the bailouts, they don't work. I just don't know.

What I truly believe in is the common goodness of America. I belive in our collective ingenuity. This is a challenge that America can rise too and overcome. President Obama symbolizes that hope. I don't expect him to fix this problem in six weeks. But I believe that he will try his hardest to change the course of this nation.

Nicely said:thumbs:

[ME BIGGD01]

There is no doubt that the American people wereliving well beyond their means. I believe it was a strategy to make it the way it is. People were just weak because it was too easy to say ooohhhh I likey let me put it on the card. What ended up was people had to start paying all these high interest rates on the cards and many will never be able to pay them off. Now what happends is the money that people can could be using to buy something is now going to pay for something they bought a while ago along with a high interst rate.

What trully happened is that our Government failed us. Not just the past 8 years either. There was scam after scam and nothing was done to prevent or fix the situation. We are peons compared to the pros that should have been able to predict this. Greed is the culprit and now the mess is so big it seems almost impossible to fix. The banks have been bailed out but for what? What did they need to be bailed out from? How does this help anyone? Ok so they let people buy houses that could not afford them but should people doing the right thing have to suffer? And why not just give every American a chk to bail them out of their bills? I mean arent we going to have to pay this deficit back ourselves? Why is a corporation getting support with our money? This is what boggles my mind completely because wouldnt the banks get the money back if the people paid their credit cards off and mortgages with money they recieved from the government? I am lost there but in my calcilations it would have been a lot cheaper.

As far as money paid for the war, I am lost their also. I can not understand how we messed up. Iraq has a lot of monet there. They produce Oil and we get nothing from it? It's kind of scary that the people making these descisions are running the country. I am all for rebuilding a country if they are willing to change but please don't expect us to pay for it. It's like paying for your neighbors siding so it looks better near your house. Makes no sense.

If I was President of this Country I would see to it that all people have health care, Seniors are cared for, all college is free for all students who have no less than a B AVG. All Oil would come from our soil until we were capable of running different fuels which I would heavily focus on. I would have all new systems in place within 5 years to give people a chance to change. All prescriptions would be no more than 20 dollars. I would allow for competition on all medications. STem Cell research would be ok'd the first day regardless if it has not been proven to work yet. I would stop it if it was proven not to work only. All drug charges would face a stiffer penalty to where if you are caught with anything you will most likely quit. Schools would have a no tolerance for lack of education. If the tests show the kids are not learning, its the school not doing it's job and they are all fired. I think that would light a fire under all of their asses to make sure all kids are to be focused on. At the same time, Parents that don't do their part are charged higher taxes or extra costs for a different school. I do believe it starts at home with education so we can kill 2 birds with one stone. I would start manufacturing again in this country. Make deals with our South American allies to make their place to live better that they would not have to come here and leave their familiy to make any money. This would make it more peaceful here while it would cost more than having China make everything, it would be safer for us and our markets can start rebuilding. End all Wars with a stiff warning to those that thinkit's ok to attack us. Make it clear that the next war would be over in less than a week. If another 9/11 happens than so will another Hiroshima. The choice is the enemies. Force all parts of Government servants to not be able to work while in office. If they run a business, that business has to close down. No one not evenb the President should be allowed to make any money outside of office for 5 years after they leave office. That would keep things a little more honest and all would be audited yearly. I would rid the nation of corruption from Congress to the WHite House. COngress members would only be able to run for 2 years. and Senators only 2 years. No election would run over a budget. All parties would have a fair chance with reasoning not with who has more money.

I honestly think these problems we have are so easy to fix but the corruption wont allow it. It's why I would not hesitate to spit on any politician because chances are they are as crooked as anyone else. I would prefer a blue collar worker who knows a little more about living under a budget rather than some jerk off who does not or have not had to worry about paying his mortgage. A real honest American that loves his or her Country. We have already proven this Nation is proud to have even voted for a Black President or a woman. We are so passed the bullshit which is why I get so sick to my stomach hearing about someone having a disadvantage. Those days are long gone and those comments are just excuses. We have proven it does not matter to the majority of us as long as it is in the best interest to the nation. If people would just get otgether, stick together and call the shots the Governement tries to pull on us. I honestly believe most if us in this world basically want the same thing out of life and that is to raise a family in peace and be able to put food on their table. Plain and simple until the greed kicks in to those that belive they deserve more. It's time to be humble and humble those that feel they cannot be humbled.

[Pure_Evil]

One of the things I see that I hate is the cost of medicine in this country. You see prescription meds advertised on tv, wtf? My doctor should be telling me what I need, not some add on TV or a magazine. The costs for all this advertising come right back to the consumer, eliminate the advertising, lower the costs. No, wait, if we do that, the pharmaceutical company wont make as big a proffit :eek: I'm all for socialised medicine.I also think the way campaigns are raising funds is crap. Give the canidates = amounts of government money to spend and let the chips fall. Oh wait, then no favors owed to big bussiness and the TV networks lose money from advertising.... See what's wrong, and why it wont get fixed? Iraq was and is a mess, done for all the wrong reasons.

Until this country starts taking care of itself 1st, we're screwed. I'm glad I have a secure job, even if the pay stinks, in a few years, it's going to seam like a real good paying job....

[Nitro]

If America wanted real change, they would have elected Ron Paul so I do not feel bad at all for the depression they're getting themselves into. Won't effect me in the slightest since I've been prepared for this kind of thing for 3 years now.

[Sirc]

One thing that would make Obama a hero in my eyes would be to have him publicly state that the media whores Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson do not in any way represent African Americans in the US.

[SASQUATCH]

This whole thing about cheating the American people has been going on since US became a nation. Jackson our president had at one point our finance out of dept because he attacked the Banking and companies who were trying to control the government by cornering the market and he was the only president who has ever got us out of dept.

This is going so far back that we are in so deep in sh*t of corruption and it will take time, and now people are starting to realize about our government corruption.

If we don't try something soon, I for one would hate to be around for the next war that will happen because of this corruption that has been going on for so long.

This is what happen to the Romans because of there government corruption and it's happening here but not like it but similar.

It's time for the people to wake up and provide the support to help and eliminate this corruption, that again has been going on for centuries.

I for one believe in hope because it is all I have left and I will be dam if anyone is going to tell me about not having hope. Without it, we are doomed for destruction and that is why I believe in it.

Obama is now in charge and it is up to us to do our best to provide help but mostly keep an eye on him and all of our government officials, so that no one gets away with robbing this nation.

The people must be prepare to keep a watchful eye on what is going on and educate themselves more on these matters that are killing this nation.

[EXEcution]

For anything to happen on any scale (whether it's through grassroots movements or a complete federal overhaul) first we must consider the concept of ideology.

It's really quite simple, once some idealistic notion is propagated throughout the public consciousness then there will be a distributed call to action. The idea is what drives our spirit, the logic behind the idea is what drives our actions.

If the people merely take it upon themselves to believe that there is an inherent way of doing things better then we can start to create change for the better.

The future needs to be modeled and planned carefully, there has to be an ideal in place. Otherwise we won't see a future at all.

(Naturally this is a combination of my own thought and several other sources of thought or at least my interpretation of them. It sounded good when I wrote it and it would seem hard to disagree with.)

[Death Engineer]

It IS indeed hard to argue with it. Mostly because I can't make heads or tails of what you're saying.


...once some idealistic notion is propagated throughout the public consciousness then there will be a distributed call to action.
What the heck does that mean? To me it sounds like psycho-babble. I can relate though. Folks often react the same way to religious words like sanctification and born again.

What I believe this country (and really, the world at large) needs right now are 2 things: Leadership and Youth.

We need leaders that step up and do the right thing. Not because it is popular or easy, but because it is right. This applies to politicians, business owners, pastors, all the way down to your neighborhood committee. We need some folks with character that aren't afraid to speak the truth in love. This means not taking the fatter deal that is ethically/morally in dangerous territory, but taking the smaller deal that is legit. It means using money (personally, professionally, at all levels of business AND government) wisely. Not spending more than what is made.

Then we need youth to recognize the kind of leaders that I've described above and learn from them. They will do what they see modeled, and the majority of what is being modeled today is just wrong. If they see character (honesty, generosity, etc) shown to them in their own lives, they have a much higher chance of becoming that way themselves.

That's my 2 cents.

[Pure_Evil]

Read more like $1.50 to me :thumbs:

[FUS1ON]

It did to me too.

[EXEcution]

It IS indeed hard to argue with it. Mostly because I can't make heads or tails of what you're saying.


What the heck does that mean? To me it sounds like psycho-babble. I can relate though. Folks often react the same way to religious words like sanctification and born again.

What I believe this country (and really, the world at large) needs right now are 2 things: Leadership and Youth.

We need leaders that step up and do the right thing. Not because it is popular or easy, but because it is right. This applies to politicians, business owners, pastors, all the way down to your neighborhood committee. We need some folks with character that aren't afraid to speak the truth in love. This means not taking the fatter deal that is ethically/morally in dangerous territory, but taking the smaller deal that is legit. It means using money (personally, professionally, at all levels of business AND government) wisely. Not spending more than what is made.

Then we need youth to recognize the kind of leaders that I've described above and learn from them. They will do what they see modeled, and the majority of what is being modeled today is just wrong. If they see character (honesty, generosity, etc) shown to them in their own lives, they have a much higher chance of becoming that way themselves.

That's my 2 cents.

Agreed. All I am proposing is that we give this "thing/idea" a name and start to make it happen.

[Death Engineer]

We can't just call it leadership/ethics/morals/character/wisdom? Does it really need a catchy name?

[Nitro]

Yes. America is all about marketing your product in order for the masses to eat it up.

[SASQUATCH]

First make it simple because people do not have time for mambo jumbo words when in fact it should be kept simple and to the point.

I don’t understand why people at times want to post and try to be well-groomed with words about something that is easy and needs to be simplified. I am not impressed by words but by only common sense and honesty.

DE said it pretty much straight forward and people would read or listen more when it’s said in that way. It’s Simple and right to the point. Time has always played a role for many people that are willing to listen and work together by making it simple and to the point. I am not much for religion or believe in it but with over 1 billion Christians on earth; then it is necessary to respect it and follow the guide lines as DE has mention and has simplified it with additional understanding for all because this pretty much applies to all in what DE has said.

No one here is going to win a Nobel prize for well-groomed words.

[Nitro]

In his weekly address, Obama said that "The system we have now might work for the powerful and well-connected interests that have run Washington for far too long, but I don't." When I read that, I reminded myself of when Eisenhower warned the nation of the military-industrial complex and when JFK warned about secret societies having a stranglehold on the nation. I'm a libertarian so I'm neither in favor of dems or repubs but this suggests he might actually do something in the interests of the People of our republic (but this is yet to be determined). Freedom, privacy, and liberty are more important than anything else for me and too much of those things have been raped in the past 8 years. He reasserted his commitment to fiscal discipline, saying his budget team has "identified $2 trillion worth of deficit reductions over the next decade" by scouring the budget "line by line" for wasteful and inefficient programs. Clearly, the "war on drugs" is a failure and must be one of the programs he's going to get rid of. If he doesn't he instantly gets an F for failure by me.

[Sirc]

I am not much for religion or believe in it but with over 1 billion Christians on earth; then it is necessary to respect it and follow the guide lines

What? Being ethical/moral has nothing to do with religious beliefs. It doesn't matter how many Christians/Muslims/Druids there are. Common sense and good values are what's called for, and no matter what anyone says, you can be a good person with high moral values without believing in any sort of religion.

The day an athiest gets elected president we will truly be free. Just MHO.

[Nitro]

What? Being ethical/moral has nothing to do with religious beliefs. It doesn't matter how many Christians/Muslims/Druids there are. Common sense and good values are what's called for, and no matter what anyone says, you can be a good person with high moral values without believing in any sort of religion.

The day an athiest gets elected president we will truly be free. Just MHO.

I don't think that will happen for at least several decades. An agnostic will come first before an athiest. The closest thing we had to atheist presidents were our founding fathers who were deists (close cousin to athiesm, you can say). Funny how things went backwards...I actually heard people say that america was founded by christians! What parallel universe are they living in? It's sad that you would never ever hear the kind of things our founding fathers said about religion and christianity being spoken by the likes of Obama, or any other recent prez or near future prez.

[Death Engineer]

...our founding fathers who were deists...
I'm not sure where you're getting your facts, but I don't think the majority of the founding fathers would have considered themselves deists. I don't have a better reference at the moment, but a quick lookup on wikipedia sheds some light on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States (see Religion section)

Copied from there with my emphasis:

Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Some of the 1787 delegates had no affiliation. The others were Protestants except for three Roman Catholics: C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (Episcopalian, after the Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists, the total number being 49. Some of the more prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical or vocal about their opposition to organized religion, such as Jefferson. Some of them often related their anti-organized church leanings in their speeches and correspondence, including George Washington[10], Thomas Jefferson (who created the "Jefferson Bible")[11], and Benjamin Franklin[12]. However, other notable founders, such as Patrick Henry, were strong proponents of traditional religion. Several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to that of deists.[13]

I think it's safe to say there were a mixture of religious backgrounds in the heritage of the founding fathers. I'd say the country was much closer to being founded on Christian principles than deist ones though. In any event...this is off subject. We should probably create a new thread if we've going to go much further down this path.

[Nitro]

I'm not sure where you're getting your facts, but I don't think the majority of the founding fathers would have considered themselves deists. I don't have a better reference at the moment, but a quick lookup on wikipedia sheds some light on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States (see Religion section)

Copied from there with my emphasis:


I think it's safe to say there were a mixture of religious backgrounds in the heritage of the founding fathers. I'd say the country was much closer to being founded on Christian principles than deist ones though. In any event...this is off subject. We should probably create a new thread if we've going to go much further down this path.

I look at quotes by the founding fathers themselves. Not one of our founding fathers was christian. Being part of a masonic fraternity does not count in the slightest. Look up the names of the likes of washington, adams, jefferson, monroe, madison, franklin, paine, etc, here: http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/qframe.htm

And read what they had to say word for word (in their own words and the words of their contemporaries!), not what a modern evangelical christian edited into a wikipedia page. but you're right, it's off-topic, but you can't say it doesnt revitalize the discussion :)

[Sirc]

<--- Level 20 Druid

<--- Level 80 Warlock, 3/4 Naxx geared. I will take your soul.

[Nitro]

Regarding the new President? I for one think the change you all wanted is not the change you were expecting. I am not sure if anyone is paying attention but this is getting scary.

The Repubs have been in charge of 20 of the last 28 years (a thought of nightmarish proportions). Obama has been president for 40 days and you want him to fix the greatest depression since the 1930s in a few weeks? Think about what you're asking...

[ME BIGGD01]

The Repubs have been in charge of 20 of the last 28 years (a thought of nightmarish proportions). Obama has been president for 40 days and you want him to fix the greatest depression since the 1930s in a few weeks? Think about what you're asking...


Nitro, while rarely do you ver make a post that has anything to do with the actual subject or supply information to back up anything you other than web tabloids that any moron can create to just sat something, I suggest you just ignore any and everything I post because there rally is no point to argue or debate anything with a forum troll. Please excuse me if that is a bit offensive but the thread was created for everyone to post an opinion ans maybe reflect on what they see. Noone wants to bother with comments and no back up. Regardless of what I say or feel or maybe see, it might not agree with others but would accept an intelligent statement rather than a piece of a question with no input.

I hate to be blunt but what do you know about the last 20 years? Seriously, you were just nobbing on a tit back than. Your data comes from internet searches which ar 80% BS. Think about what I am saying here and maybe kinda think how an adult feels with your comments from a kid who was in diapers when I was already paying taxes. It really is a problem with your generation to think you know it all when most of you are still dependant on someone else. It's insulting really but that's the internet and we choose to converse on such. '

Anyone can make a blind statement. It means nothing or adds nothing to the conversation. It is more agenda based and no one can make out your point.

I hope I explained myself clearly.:thumbs:

[EXEcution]

Nitro, while rarely do you ver make a post that has anything to do with the actual subject or supply information to back up anything you other than web tabloids that any moron can create to just sat something, I suggest you just ignore any and everything I post because there rally is no point to argue or debate anything with a forum troll. Please excuse me if that is a bit offensive but the thread was created for everyone to post an opinion ans maybe reflect on what they see. Noone wants to bother with comments and no back up. Regardless of what I say or feel or maybe see, it might not agree with others but would accept an intelligent statement rather than a piece of a question with no input.

I hate to be blunt but what do you know about the last 20 years? Seriously, you were just nobbing on a tit back than. Your data comes from internet searches which ar 80% BS. Think about what I am saying here and maybe kinda think how an adult feels with your comments from a kid who was in diapers when I was already paying taxes. It really is a problem with your generation to think you know it all when most of you are still dependant on someone else. It's insulting really but that's the internet and we choose to converse on such. '

Anyone can make a blind statement. It means nothing or adds nothing to the conversation. It is more agenda based and no one can make out your point.

I hope I explained myself clearly.:thumbs:

You've said this many times before, and we all get it. However, you are no more privileged than any of us to make a statement based on facts or opinion. None of us here are experts on the subject matter. No one's input is going to be considered the de facto argument.

We're all just sharing ideas here, no need to get personal.

[ME BIGGD01]

Well nothing is personal but annoying that it is next to impossible to have a conversation in these threads with troll posts that have nothing to do with the topic.

I can respect anyone and their views but nothing is more annoying than someone just posting without any view of their own just mumbo jumbo about drug laws. I think the ability to blame Bush is over because the changes being made are actually making things worste from the Obama camp. In fact I think if we go into a depression, it will be caused by the failures of the current administration. From what I see people are going to be F'd come middle summer or early September. The funny thing is everyone says it's still too early to say anything but that is not true when things are already being put in place and they are failing miserably. This was the point of the thread and it seems things have even gotten worste from the original date I created it.

[Suicidal]

...

[Sirc]

Well nothing is personal but annoying that it is next to impossible to have a conversation in these threads with troll posts that have nothing to do with the topic.

I apologize for my "troll" post. On the other hand, that's always the way GM has worked. When things get too serious or too intense, it's customary to inject a few posts on the humorous side. I don't speak for Term, but I'm pretty sure that was also his intention.

I've pretty much stated my opinions concerning the topic. I'll try to refrain from "trolling" any more.

[Pure_Evil]

I'll try to refrain from "trolling" any more.

That cracked me up! Come on Sirc, Honesty please :P


the longer a thread goes, the more of a chance it will get sidetracked once the horse is dead

[Suicidal]

and you know how we really enjoy beating said horse.
at least, I do :)

[Nitro]

Since I will completely ignore your noncontributing post Bigg, here's a list of things Obama did in the 50 days he's been prez so far. I didn't compile this list. I'm sure you'll call it commie propaganda to bring about socialism but you should know by now that I'm difficult to silence :P

Ohh Bama...

1/21/9 Directed military leaders to end war in Iraq and begin responsible withdrawal

1/21/9 Passed ethics guidelines banning hires based on politics

1/21/9 Banned lobbyist gifts to executive employees

1/22/9 Released Presidential records

1/22/9 Ordered the close of the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay

1/22/9 Banned torture

1/22/9 Ordered a systematic review of detention policies and procedures and a review of all individual cases.

1/23/9 Lifted a ban on federal funding for international groups that provide family planning that included information about abortion (The Global Gag Rule / Mexico City Policy)

1/26/9 Reversed Bush Administration obstruction and ordered the Environmental Protection Agency to reconsider California’s request to apply tighter air pollution standards on automobiles.

1/27/9 Granted his 1st formal Presidential interview in office to to an Arab channel, the Saudi-backed, Dubai-based al-Arabiya

1/29/9 Signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act

1/30/9 Ordered Nondisplacement of Qualified Workers Under Service Contracts

2/4/9 Expanded eligibility for State Children's Health Insurance Fund (SCHIP)

2/6/9 Established an Economic Recovery Advisory Board

2/10/9 Initiated a comprehensive cybersecurity review of critical U.S. systems

2/17/9 Extended and indexed the 2007 Alternative Minimum Tax patch

2/17/9 Sent two additional brigades to Afghanistan

2/17/9 Supported increased funding for the NEA

2/18/9 Created a plan to weatherize 1 million low income homes per year for the next 10 years

2/19/9 Extend unemployment insurance benefits and temporarily suspend taxes on these benefits

2/19/9 Created a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners

2/19/9 Created a White House Office on Urban Policy

2/20/9 Created a plan committed to investment in all types of alternative energy

2/27/9 Halted DEA medical marijuana raids in California

3/5/9 Convened a comprehensive health care summit to begin the task of overhauling health care in the U.S.

3/9/9 Reversed restrictions on stem cell research and ended the Bush Administration "War on Science."

[ME BIGGD01]

Since I will completely ignore your noncontributing post Bigg, here's a list of things Obama did in the 50 days he's been prez so far. I didn't compile this list. I'm sure you'll call it commie propaganda to bring about socialism but you should know by now that I'm difficult to silence :P

Ohh Bama...

1/21/9 Directed military leaders to end war in Iraq and begin responsible withdrawal
LOL this is a joke. I guess you have not been paying attention too deep into this plan right? You do know he will actually have troops there longer than Bush right? He is also sending more troops to Afghan.

1/21/9 Passed ethics guidelines banning hires based on politics
Yet how was he elected?

1/21/9 Banned lobbyist gifts to executive employees
HAHAHAHA, nothing more canbe said

1/22/9 Released Presidential records
LOl what does this do? What about all Presidents? Better yet what about all of congress?
1/22/9 Ordered the close of the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay
Yeah I heard this but also read the other day that one of them was back on the battlefield killing Americans and was a big name operative. I guess thats ok for those that are not in harms way. Figure they guy will kill a few hundred maybe more innocent people.

1/22/9 Banned torture
When was it allowed?

1/22/9 Ordered a systematic review of detention policies and procedures and a review of all individual cases.
You are really pulling at straws here.

1/23/9 Lifted a ban on federal funding for international groups that provide family planning that included information about abortion (The Global Gag Rule / Mexico City Policy)

Yeah this is extremely important considering what really needs to be fixed.

1/26/9 Reversed Bush Administration obstruction and ordered the Environmental Protection Agency to reconsider California’s request to apply tighter air pollution standards on automobiles.
Very exciting. The truth is so many people will be leaving Cali as it goes belly up less cars will be on the road. Besides, how does this fix the nation?

1/27/9 Granted his 1st formal Presidential interview in office to to an Arab channel, the Saudi-backed, Dubai-based al-Arabiya
LOL-and what makes this important?

1/29/9 Signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act
LOL again, garbage that helps no one really. Tell me when this makes a difference and I will clap for you.

1/30/9 Ordered Nondisplacement of Qualified Workers Under Service Contracts
Yawn

2/4/9 Expanded eligibility for State Children's Health Insurance Fund (SCHIP)
Yeah working people who own something will be considered to rich to get this. The slackers will love it. But for the people that really try tolive a normal life will not be approved for help and therefor have to suffer and pay more.

2/6/9 Established an Economic Recovery Advisory Board
Yeah this is going great. Did they pay their taxes yet?

2/10/9 Initiated a comprehensive cybersecurity review of critical U.S. systems
Yeah, wasnt the FBI just raiding the place today? LOL, makes ya wonder what really is going on.

2/17/9 Extended and indexed the 2007 Alternative Minimum Tax patch
A joke

2/17/9 Sent two additional brigades to Afghanistan
Yeah, what happened to his abaility to bring all sides together?

2/17/9 Supported increased funding for the NEA
Being White who cares other than I am paying for it.
http://www.nea.org/home/index.html not for Whites just the scum in America that feel they deserve it. Another Governemnt scam tax payers are to ignorant to fight against. Should be the first thing cut out of the budget. Sick of minorityy status bullshit. Make all education free and than I will clap. Many families who really work and pay taxes cant pay for education for school but because they work they make too much money to get the luxury of college. Been like this too long and yay the Country is failing.

2/18/9 Created a plan to weatherize 1 million low income homes per year for the next 10 years
Another thing taxpayers have to pay for. Should be done by churches not tax payers. Wait many of you dont belong to a church.

2/19/9 Extend unemployment insurance benefits and temporarily suspend taxes on these benefits
LOL--many are going to need this one come September. Sad but true and Obamas policies are making things far worste. No more it's Bush's fault and can't wait to see the outcome.

2/19/9 Created a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners
You either can afford whatyou have or you can't. This is all the Democrats fault. People can blame Bush out of pure Ignorance without being able to answer how. You had a democrat team who felt everyone deserved a loan for a house. Scandal after scandal and the people who got loans bought houses they could never afford. Now they lose the house and property values are dropping because of it so much that people are saying WTF, my house is not even worth what I am paying for it. They stop paying their mortgage and the trend continues. Now the world is ****ed because of it and the economy continues to fall. Yeahthis is Bush's fault because of Iraq and it has nothing to do with it other than less money for bailouts that arent going to work either.

2/19/9 Created a White House Office on Urban Policy
A typical Nitro post

2/20/9 Created a plan committed to investment in all types of alternative energy
I have a plan also, does that make me special?


2/27/9 Halted DEA medical marijuana raids in California
We are saved!!!!!!!!

3/5/9 Convened a comprehensive health care summit to begin the task of overhauling health care in the U.S.
See it when I believe it along with if you are white move to the next one. Chances are you are going to still be paying for your insurance along with a more pathetic medical system for America. Your prescriptions will still break you. Gotta love how Americans fall for the same shit over and over.

3/9/9 Reversed restrictions on stem cell research and ended the Bush Administration "War on Science."
Can't debate this one because I have mixed feelings. I can only hope for something to work out.


Now Nitro, where in that list is what you feel is helping this country? I mean we can pick any of those and say a positive but in reality where does it help the middle class family? How is any of that going to save someone fromlosing there house? I created this thread to discuss what people are seeing where they were and what they thought about the policies from the current president. You see I recall all of this change talk from the obama campaign and almost everything he said he would do is reversed. His cabinet members forgot to pay their own taxes for God sakes. These democrats are making a bigger hole they created. And yes they created this mess with their actions in congress. The war did cost us and continues but if things were done right in the first place we would not have this mess to deal with. Now corporations know Obama plans to make them pay for earning money so what do you think they are going to do? We are bailing out corps with taxpayers money which isnt even there. How does this help? Lets say we bail out Chevy. How is it going to fix the problem they still have which is the Unions that they have to pay unlike the competition. Why are banks being bailed out still? How much more money do they get to have yet they are still allowed to charge you any interest rate on your credit cards? Why are people still losing their houses if the banks are being saved? Why have the people not been bailed out who actually have to pay for these other bailouts that wont help them? Why are taxes being created out of the blue now? WHy is America allowing things to happen that totally go against what this country was built on? We are heading for a brick wall which many of you are too busy looking in the rearview mirror for.

I know many people said it's going to take time but If I see someone on a race track facing the wrong direction, I am kinda nervous. It's more scary that too many people are not speaking up because God forbid they were wrong by electing Obama. I would love for any of you to say I told you so. trust me when I say that. But from the looks of it, that is not going to happen. I think the reality is there are going to be a lot of good people F'd out their life by their Government. WHo's fault is that? It's the ignorance and laziness of the American people who say and did nothing. Plan on more wars and more dangerous ones at that. Other countries have it worste than us due to the corruption in this country. When that happens bad things occur along with hatred. The plan of being rich or poor is about to happen. That to me is sad because of how it happened. Gloom or doom is always looked at as not happening but after awhile of doing nothing it is sure to happen.

Thanks for responding. I do wish you would of mention what your opinions of each on your list meant to you and what you think is so great. Knowing how you are, you get a kick out of such things and just F'ing with me. Regardless, I do not feel when an American family is being hurt, it's a laughing matter.

[JIMINATOR]

eh, my own beliefs are both liberal and conservative. what I see here is the same thing clinton tried to do his first year, and that is to just push piles of liberal policies. It's as if they have their hand in the cookie jar and they are trying to get everything out that they can. that might work for a couple of years, but chances are the next congress will be a conservative one. that is because there are no true moderates, the balance just tilts from one side to the other as the different parties get fed up with the poicies.

[SASQUATCH]

What? Being ethical/moral has nothing to do with religious beliefs. It doesn't matter how many Christians/Muslims/Druids there are. Common sense and good values are what's called for, and no matter what anyone says, you can be a good person with high moral values without believing in any sort of religion.

The day an athiest gets elected president we will truly be free. Just MHO.

I didn't mean it in that way Sirc but value with common sense. Now to be more real about this it would be impossible to consider because there are too many people who believe in this deity.

As far as an athiest being elected, I would say maybe another 100 years from now lol.

[SASQUATCH]

Jon Stewart vs Jim Cramer

I would suggest to look into the Jon Stewart show about what he said and had Jim Cramer on his show. You will find it interesting and I must say thanks to Jon Stewart to expose Jim Cramer etc.

[JIMINATOR]

you left out the link.
http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?collectionId=221532
three videos, Stewart is absolutely brutal with Cramer, very good to watch. I don't think I have ever seen an interview like that.

[ME BIGGD01]

Jon Stewart vs Jim Cramer

I would suggest to look into the Jon Stewart show about what he said and had Jim Cramer on his show. You will find it interesting and I must say thanks to Jon Stewart to expose Jim Cramer etc.


Yeah I caught that Sas, I was like F'ing A!!!! There was another clip where he just tore that network apart and was happy he did.

[ME BIGGD01]

You know no matter what you can tell a person by how they feel about things and not out of frustration. You will see me post here and many times be frustrated. Are my views correct or right? No way I am sure that is not the case but I do know that as a human I am very compassionate about people. I dont want anyone to suffer. I guess people have to know me and see me in real life. I am a hard ass with a big heart. I would not refuse to help someone if I see they need it. That goes for any race. It's not the way I am but I do want our Government to do right by all people equally and with a standard without labels. I could careless if you are republican or democrat but want things to be done by all people. It shouldnot be either party makes it better for one side. Trust me I don't like that and it is why our country is messed up. DO I think Obama is our Saviour? Hell no, I am hoping he is able to do the right thing. He makes me nervous but why shouldnt that be the case for anyone? Do I have a problem what color his skin is, Hello no could care less. I think the biggest problem I have with him his the way he did things. A lot of sneaky things and incomplete information.

All I care about is that people like us are able to live the American dream in peace. We should not have to knock someone down to get there or we should not have to be kept down to help others.

I said my peace:thumbs:

[SASQUATCH]

You know no matter what you can tell a person by how they feel about things and not out of frustration. You will see me post here and many times be frustrated. Are my views correct or right? No way I am sure that is not the case but I do know that as a human I am very compassionate about people. I dont want anyone to suffer. I guess people have to know me and see me in real life. I am a hard ass with a big heart. I would not refuse to help someone if I see they need it. That goes for any race. It's not the way I am but I do want our Government to do right by all people equally and with a standard without labels. I could careless if you are republican or democrat but want things to be done by all people. It shouldnot be either party makes it better for one side. Trust me I don't like that and it is why our country is messed up. DO I think Obama is our Saviour? Hell no, I am hoping he is able to do the right thing. He makes me nervous but why shouldnt that be the case for anyone? Do I have a problem what color his skin is, Hello no could care less. I think the biggest problem I have with him his the way he did things. A lot of sneaky things and incomplete information.

All I care about is that people like us are able to live the American dream in peace. We should not have to knock someone down to get there or we should not have to be kept down to help others.

I said my peace:thumbs:

:thumbs: Well said my friend and one thing I do know about you, is your heart is huge and a giving man.

[SASQUATCH]

Yeah I caught that Sas, I was like F'ing A!!!! There was another clip where he just tore that network apart and was happy he did.

Jon Stewart is not only funny but bright when he take it seriously.

I saw that too he is an amazing man and I got a great deal of respect for him for being honest and helping people like us to expose the truth.

[SASQUATCH]

you left out the link.
http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?collectionId=221532
three videos, Stewart is absolutely brutal with Cramer, very good to watch. I don't think I have ever seen an interview like that.

Yes I agree very much. . . :thumbs:

[OUTLAWS WHOCARES]

I will say this. If he go with taxing my damn heath insurance I will flip out. I get taxed enough as it is. It is a nice thing that my insurance get paid for on a pre tax basis.

[Nitro]

Great post Biggs :thumbs:


Just as a side note Danny, I did not write that list I posted, as I stated in my post. I would be unhappy either way if it was McCain or Obama that was elected but at least having Obama will give people a dose of some change that they didn't quite look for and then finally get this revolution started that I've been anticipating. It's good that there's documentaries such as The Obama Deception (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7886780711843120756&ei=jg69SZTwFIiGqwL3zcA-&q=obama+deception&dur=3) so that perhaps more people can take off their rose colored glasses and have We the People to bring about the change that we wish to manifest and get this country back to the way it was meant to be, as a republic for the people, run by the people, and adhering to its constitution. Liberty must triumph or else tyranny will enslave us all.

[Pure_Evil]

Jon Stewart is not only funny but bright when he take it seriously.

I saw that too he is an amazing man and I got a great deal of respect for him for being honest and helping people like us to expose the truth.don't writers script everything for him?

[He Is Legend]

don't writers script everything for him?

Don't they all ?

[Pure_Evil]

My point being, just because he has a good delivery, and sounds good, doesn't make him all that intelligent, to me, he's a talking head until he talks without writers and a prompter

[JIMINATOR]

opinions were that during the WGA strike he was better without the writers.

[Suicidal]

DId anyone watch Stossel on 20/20 last Friday?

Just curious, because my macro teacher was overjoyed when she saw someone she knew being interviewed. And she signed that petition. I havent watched it yet. But soon...

[SASQUATCH]

don't writers script everything for him?

Not everything because he at times comes up with these ideas or what to talk about that he feels the public needs to know.

You should watch him talk when he gets invited to these talk shows or news, you will find him very interesting and can be simple but right to the point.