Peace in The ME

[ME BIGGD01]

http://www.debka.com/article/8808/

This is one of the sites I frequent and they have been usually spot on regarding the news and info sometimes weeks before we hear about it in America. I honestly wish the world would wake up let alone America and understand what the overall objective is. While people are still crying about Bush, the truth is there is an enemy out there that you can not and never will be able to get diplomacy with. Any time wasted on diplomacy with these people is only a waste of time that will only come and bite ya on the ass. I still feel that the term diplomacy should be used as the warning to our enemy. If my point is wrong, lets just look at the results so far with North Korea, Iran, and Iraq. Now out of those three, which are really threats?

If you honestly believe diplomacy works, I ask you this... Would Diplomacy have worked in WWI or WWII?

[SASQUATCH]

http://www.debka.com/article/8808/

This is one of the sites I frequent and they have been usually spot on regarding the news and info sometimes weeks before we hear about it in America. I honestly wish the world would wake up let alone America and understand what the overall objective is. While people are still crying about Bush, the truth is there is an enemy out there that you can not and never will be able to get diplomacy with. Any time wasted on diplomacy with these people is only a waste of time that will only come and bite ya on the ass. I still feel that the term diplomacy should be used as the warning to our enemy. If my point is wrong, lets just look at the results so far with North Korea, Iran, and Iraq. Now out of those three, which are really threats?

If you honestly believe diplomacy works, I ask you this... Would Diplomacy have worked in WWI or WWII?

World War 1 could have been prevented. The cause of World war 1 stemed back to 1870 when Germany defeated France in the Franco- Prussian War. This is where Germany took over the French provinces of Alsace and Lorraine.

Back in Britain they were building up a powerful army, much stronger than any other. Britain also had the largest empire and its Navy had ruled the seas for hundreds of years.

Austria-Hugary also had a large empire and wanted to take over the Balkans in south-east Europe. In 1908 they managed to snatch a small area called Bosnia. Serbia was not happy about this a tried to drive them out. Russia was also intrested in the Balkans because it wanted to have access from the Black Sea.

There was mistrust between the great powers which led them to form into two alliances. Germany, Austria- Hungary and Italy. Its rival was known as the triple alliance made up of Britain, France and Russia. If there was a war all six countries would get tangled in it. Europe was on a knife edge.

Then came the assasination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife Sophie in Sarajevo, the capital of Bosnia on the 28th of June 1914.


To stop WWII, all the allies needed to do was stand up to Hitler and say no. If they had stopped the re-occupation of the Rhineland, or the Anschluss of Austria, or the Sudetenland crises, the German generals would have deposed of Hitler. If the allies had objected strongly enough with the threat of military action against the trashing of the Versailles treaty, Hitler would have been stopped.

Any of these actions would have led to the probable loss of face by Hitler and possibly see him ousted by the generals. This would have led to a potential coup and a Germany led by the military, which may still have involved WWII happening.

The root causes for WWII lay way back in WWI and the Versailles treaty. If this treaty had been not so harsh, or if the allies had indeed wanted to help Germany instead of blaming her, then the underlying causes for WWII might have been avoided.

I will say however that it is my opinion that if Hitler had been stopped in the 1930s possbility of a second world war sometime in the 1940s against Stalin's Russia. Stalin was just as interested in world conquest as Hiler was, Hitler just beat him to the punch. But this is purely speculation.

[Goober]

I don't think there will ever be peace in the middle east. They've been fighting each other since the 1st Arab kicked sand into the 2nd Arabs eyes. Then along came the crusades. It started out simply enought, The Byzantine Emperor asked for help from the west to repel the Seljuk Turks (Sunni Muslims) from the Pope. Well he decided that this would be a good time to wander on down to Jerusalum to recapture it from the Muslims and free his Christian brothers. Man, there was some nasty pwnage in the name of religion back then. You should read "The crusades through Arab eyes" by Amin Maalouf to understand why they hate the West so and why they want Israel wiped of the face of the earth. Of couse they conviently forget that Jerusalum was Jewish long before Islam was a religion.
I guarantee you that if Isreal was gone and America was converted to Islam. The Sunni's, Shiites and whatever other splinter groups of Islam that exist, would still be shooting and bombing each other until the end of time.

[ME BIGGD01]

Well guys, I think you all may seem to understand where I am getting at considering your touch up with history. Would it be safe to say my assumption on diplomacy and it being a waste of time only to cause more problems and may also threaten the human race? If so what would your action be like?

[Sirc]

I think that North Korea is at the top of the list for being the biggest threat at the moment. That situation can go really bad really fast, and we have a rather large military presence in South Korea that going to suffer. If NK decides to start shelling, there is not going to be any negotiations. Instant major conflict, with SK taking heavy losses.

I hope the US has a plan to take out all of the NK artillery pointed at SK on a moment's notice. And I wonder what China would do.

Kim Jong-il is a dictator with a 10 year old mentality. He cannot be negotiated with. He has a huge standing army. And he has nukes. He scares me a hell of a lot more than Iran does at the moment.

[))GODLIKE((]

I have to agree with Sirc

South corea is on of the biggest country in CRIME

[Goober]

Oh sure, let's take the topic across the continent why don't we. Don't think for a minute that Korea didn't have a plan for that torpedo. Each year, they push a little more to see what the rest of the world will do. China will do what they always do, which is sit back, pretend like they care but need to think about it. While in reality they are tickled pink that this little country has the whole world scared. At the same time Iran is taking notes of our reactions.

As to your original question Bigg, Diplomacy will never work in the middle east. Never has never will. We need to learn that just because we think a certain way doesn't mean the rest of the world does. I swear, no one in Washington has a clue or even tries to learn about another countries cultures or how they think. I read Whirlwind by James Clavell many years ago about when the Shah got run out of Iran and the Ayatollah took over. Those people are so different from us, you can't use our values on them and think it will work.

[JIMINATOR]

eh, the issue is ignorance in both countries. i think the internet is doing a lot to help with general ignorance at least in parts of the middle east. north korea not so much as I doubt many people can access the internet there. it is pretty easy to get stupid people upset at foreigners, it is actually a pretty good technique to help keep the current government in power. The middle east is an incredibly harsh place. Here we see death as an occasional rare event that either happens to old people, the sick or because of accidents. There it is pretty much the way of life and happens fairly frequently. They like to suppress their women, so in terms of total intelligence they only have 1/2 the potential of other parts of the world. No doubt the "dumb" half for having such stupid policies in play. Some people are trying to change that. Look up greg masterson, "three cups of tea". He builds schools for girls in Afghanistan and Pakistan. His competition for the minds of the youth are the taliban who also build schools, but their agenda is not education.

[SASQUATCH]

North Korea and the South Korea, tacticnically they are still at war, but both North and South Korea signed the June 15th North-South Joint Declaration in 2000, in which both sides made promises to seek out a peaceful reunification. Additionally, on October 4, 2007, the leaders of North and South Korea pledged to hold summit talks to officially declare the war over and reaffirmed the principle of mutual non-aggression.

My concern is Middle East because to read about Iran colaborating with the other Middle Eastern countries in case of War with Israel is a major problem and only tells me that we are closing in for war that will soon happen. China will need to play a major role but at this time it's been to a point that it will not matter only until something happens bad and will it be too late to find other ways for peace.

Goober said it best the Middle East actually have been fighting for over 5000 years and it's a difficult task for any diplomancy. After World War 2 1947 it didn't help matters during the middle east but only inflated.

This has become a serious problem and time is running out. The whole nation will need to find another way to prevent a war in the Middle East that can esculate to a major war between powerful nations. I would say by the end of this year I believe Isreal will prepare for an attack and the US will not be able to stop them but only join them with other allies. This is possible and I know that Israel is to a point of no longer waiting for something to happen and will prepare for war and will strike first.

The other issue that concerns me is Iran, Pakistan and India are close to making a deal for a pipe line.

This is even more the reason for US to join up with Israel and the allies to prepare for a strike toward Iran if Iran continues to it's path of conflict.


Time is running out. . .

[Sirc]

Oh sure, let's take the topic across the continent why don't we.

Um, not sure what that meant. BIGG mentioned NK as one of his 3 threatening countries. I think NK is currently the most volatile situation at this point in time. Just my opinion.

[JIMINATOR]

lol, because people love killing people. the reason each and every person exists on this earth is because every single one of their ancestors did whatever it takes to survive up until they were able to procreate.

[Goober]

Um, not sure what that meant. BIGG mentioned NK as one of his 3 threatening countries. I think NK is currently the most volatile situation at this point in time. Just my opinion.

Sorry, blame it on a senior moment or the 70's......take your pick. I had my head stuck in the sand in the Middle East.

[Die Hard]

Don't be a Goober......That's my job!

It does what it says on the can :D

[Nitro]

lol, because people love killing people
I strongly disagree.

[JIMINATOR]

you can disagree all you want, but the way our culture loves violent video games, movies and tv shows says otherwise. We can pretend to be "better than that" now, but all this pretending is guaranteed on the ability of the US to turn other countries into burned craters.

[Nitro]

you can disagree all you want, but the way our culture loves violent video games, movies and tv shows says otherwise. We can pretend to be "better than that" now, but all this pretending is guaranteed on the ability of the US to turn other countries into burned craters.
hmm

[ME BIGGD01]

Jim, I am not sure people like killing others but somewhere in your statement there may be some truth to it. As far as games go, I think people just have a destructive side to them but more so I believe people just like the feeling to compete or win. I personally don't think I consider myself a person who likes to kill but at the same time would like all of the threats removed which requires a lot of death. On the oppisite side our enemies feel the same and look at us as threats. Maybe a catch 22 but knowing I can respect life and know the difference between right and wrong, I think I will go with that.


As far as everyone else posting a history lesson. My questions was simple and I pretty much gather you all agree there will not be any diplomacy as it is a waste. With that I can't understand how you all label me as some radical nut who just wants to demolish other countries. I would love to know what any of you would suggest that would resolve such a mess that just keeps getting worst along with more dangerous to the human race.

[SASQUATCH]

Jim, I am not sure people like killing others but somewhere in your statement there may be some truth to it. As far as games go, I think people just have a destructive side to them but more so I believe people just like the feeling to compete or win. I personally don't think I consider myself a person who likes to kill but at the same time would like all of the threats removed which requires a lot of death. On the oppisite side our enemies feel the same and look at us as threats. Maybe a catch 22 but knowing I can respect life and know the difference between right and wrong, I think I will go with that.


As far as everyone else posting a history lesson. My questions was simple and I pretty much gather you all agree there will not be any diplomacy as it is a waste. With that I can't understand how you all label me as some radical nut who just wants to demolish other countries. I would love to know what any of you would suggest that would resolve such a mess that just keeps getting worst along with more dangerous to the human race.

It wasn't a history lesson but more of something that can remind us of other ways for diplomacy.

What happen during the past is a reminder that it didn't work and that if done carefully with history being the
teacher of these events, provides hope for diplomancy.

[SASQUATCH]

Jim, I am not sure people like killing others but somewhere in your statement there may be some truth to it. As far as games go, I think people just have a destructive side to them but more so I believe people just like the feeling to compete or win. I personally don't think I consider myself a person who likes to kill but at the same time would like all of the threats removed which requires a lot of death. On the oppisite side our enemies feel the same and look at us as threats. Maybe a catch 22 but knowing I can respect life and know the difference between right and wrong, I think I will go with that.


As far as everyone else posting a history lesson. My questions was simple and I pretty much gather you all agree there will not be any diplomacy as it is a waste. With that I can't understand how you all label me as some radical nut who just wants to demolish other countries. I would love to know what any of you would suggest that would resolve such a mess that just keeps getting worst along with more dangerous to the human race.

I don't think people love to kill unless completely disturp, mentally disorder or to survive. I do believe that power, wealth and religion is the key to humanities distruction and that has delay the future of man-kind to accelerate. The only problem with that is that most will say it's in our nature to destroy but I don't believe that but I do believe that we are capable of doing it especially now because we are still at it's infant growth stage of greater things for our future if we permint it.

It's as if we are still living in the dark ages, when in fact we need to past this stage in order to grow and meet up with new challenges for our future.

[ME BIGGD01]

It wasn't a history lesson but more of something that can remind us of other ways for diplomacy.

What happen during the past is a reminder that it didn't work and that if done carefully with history being the
teacher of these events, provides hope for diplomancy.

Sas if we look at the past to direct us than time would not be wasting and Iran, North Korea would have been wiped off the planet. The sooner people realize that we need to eliminate the Muslim people/religion the better we will be and safer. It's them against us. It may seem hateful but it's the truth. Their religion is complete hate and they are bred with it. They claim to be so peaceful but show me where. They are all terrorists in my eyes because of their values on life and people. Any religion that teaches hate is and the lack of accept toward others needs to be eliminated. This is my opinion and sorry if anyone is offended by my opinion but until I see it different I wont changemy mind.

[ME BIGGD01]

Hey Sas, I forgot to ask you. Did you hear they were looking to build a mosque where the towers were? They voted yes on it. Is that funny or what? I just hope New Yorkers are practicing their sniping rifles because as I see it, there is no bigger slap in the face considering 9/11 was due to the Muslim religion.

[Nitro]

....

[FUS1ON]

I damn sure think allowing that Mosque to be built there is WRONG! I cannot believe there are assholes in this country that voted to allow it.

[SASQUATCH]

Bigg’s, I know your angered but I also know that there is a limit in all of us in how far we would go or think. We live in a world of imperfection and because of it, we stride to make a differents for a better world especially for our children or our next generation. History will play a major roll in our decisions with the hopes of not making the same mistakes but to only provide solution to our problems. We are all in this together no matter what because we share the same world we live in and provide a way for peace, which comes with a price. This alone is in reference to survive and holds what is left on this earth that we live in even if it means to make sacrifies like we did doing the American revolution, World War and many more.

We have to look at it in as many ways that we can to try to understand but mostly with intellengence and compassion. If not, we are doomed for destruction and that isn’t something that we want but only to continue to try.

Steven Hawkins once said that we live because of imperfection and in what he was implying was the universe how it started life but this can also apply to a small part on this universe called earth. With these imperfections comes with a price. It can be the makings of a civilization that will grow or it can be a world that will no longer exist.

I hope for the best and with that comes with sacrifies like what we do with our own families when they are in trouble. This is just a small taste of what I mean compare to the universe or it’s creation and this beautiful gift of life on this earth.

I hope that one day you will find it in your heart to forgive but I also understand that there is to a point when not to turn the other cheek but only to be careful how far we would go and that, no matter what, it has a price.

The American revolution is a perfect example how hard we tried and how we became a great nation. It was because at times we had no choice and no longer had to turn our cheeks but to fight for libereity and yet some how as we grew to be a powerful nation, we have become the nation that will lead to a future and protection of those who have none. Thank God for America even though it’s not perfect but it’s a whole lot better then most nations compare to what America has been doing over the years.

I love my country but I also know that my country has been losing it’s value because of wealth and power but I still have hope and we the people can change it together.

Nothing is perfect but I do believe that America is going to lead the way to the future and many will follow and one day we will become one nation.

I still have hope and that would mean respecting other believes with a way of collaborating in the hopes of a positive way for our future.

[FUS1ON]

Do you think it is appropriate to construct a mosque near Ground Zero?
Yes, it will encourage tolerance. 67%
No, if the 9/11 vics' families are opposed. 31%
I'm not sure. 2%

That poll is on the NY Daily News website, i'm shocked at the results.

[SASQUATCH]

I think this is a kick in the chin to the religious extremism because they probably expected us to refuse and yet our hearts are open.

Remember America is leading the way for peace and the future and this shows a sign of not being intimidated but allowing other ways to show them an example of what America is about.

I have not really looked into it and may feel differently about it but I do believe this is away to show the world that we are a forgiving nation and that out sacrifices is directly to peaceful solution and taking up the challenge to lead to a better world.


Before you begin to judge, look at it in all directions not just with hatred, If you can look at it in both ways and make your final decision to say that this is wrong, so be it, but remember you would have to seriously look at it in both directions before making a haste decision.

Now if some of you do believe that this is wrong and no way of convincing you that this was a good thing, than look at it this way. Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

I hate to think that most of you would feel that way but it will defuse what I said in accepting your thoughts of the matter or opinions. But remember think it through and not just with hatret.

[Nitro]

I love you SAS